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[Long Post] Time to clean up this town.

On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> > Some things here tend to go a bit too off-topic, even for a general 
> > list.
> What he said.  Cool it, Kalyan ...

Some things here are making me a little sick. To start with Suresh, you
*don't* need to reply to every single post on LIG (and any other list of
which you are a member). There was a rant and rave against one of Atul's
longer posts, but your numerous rebuttals and general 'marshalling' (such
as your post to Kalyan to cool off) waste every bit as much bandwidth. You
are not the appointed referee on this list. You also do not need to thank
swati, tarique and ragh00 *on the list* for *swati* agreeing not to
pursuing charges against ragh00. Just where do you fit in ??

Before I go on, let me clarify : I *do* have an "exocore.com" address. So
let any bias against me be assumed from the start. I also have a
"cmil.com" address (linked to PCQuest) Let that also be known before I
begin. If you do not like long posts, do not read on. If you feel I'm
wasting your bandwidth, tough.

Suresh, you seem to be making a great effort to justify and find reason in
each of ragh00's profane posts. Ragh00 is a known trouble maker, and has
persistently been making a nusiance of himself for several years. In the
past, people on the list have seen his posts for what they are, and for
the most part, ignored him. This has usually led to his crawling back
where he comes from with his tail between his legs. I invite you to look
up the archives for the content in all of Ragh00's posts since he became a
member of any of these lists. I believe thaths sees this, because, while
we have had foul posts in the past, they've not resulted in anyone being
blocked. Back to the point, Suresh is the first person to find reason in
his madness, and try to make him out to be the "injured" party here. Let's
be clear about who is the problem here. Suresh's subtle, 'seemingly
balanced' view (to a newbie who does not know history here) paints a
distored picture to those who do not know better. This alone gives ragh00
the guts to keep posting his obscenity.

I'd also like to rebut one of your earlier claims about "X has done a lot
more for Linux in India than you have, so X is above criticism". No one
claims Atul is above criticism. I object to this (very Western) phenomenon
of bringing down every hero for petty personal gain (Clarification : I do
not claim Atul to be anyone's hero). In this case, I wold say your
personal gain would be to somehow try and gain a status akin to his in the
community, by bringing him down. I'm afraid you are sadly off the mark
here. While your tips on Sendmail are appreciated, your earlier
characteriztion as an ego inflated trigger-happy 'netcop' is the one that
has stuck in all our minds. Must be because it is so true. You will not
gain the respect of people here by bringing anyone down, or forcing them
off the list by your lies and accusations. As the saying goes : "A man is
known by the friends he keeps" - I am not surprised Ragh00 is your friend.

Linux India is a community, and while we have no "president" or "high
priest", we do have members of the community who are respected for their
contributions and role they have played. And yours, or anyone else's on
the list personal contribution pales in front of Atul's. For all the new
users here, let me give you a brief recap of who Atul Chitnis is, and some
of what his contribution to Linux Indian has been. I'd like you all to
keep this in mind before slinging any mud in his direction.

Atul Chitnis is currently the web master of LI, using server space and
bandwidth paid for from Exocore's pocket. I do not even see an exocore
logo on any of the pages. So much for commercial gain.

The first Linux CD (and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th an so on) distributed by a
magazine in India, were entirely his efforts with PCQuest (search for
pcquest + raghoo on the Li list archives for an appreciation of the things
ragh00 has to say about PCQ's efforts over the years). I was among the
small band of people at PCQ who Atul and Kishore Bhargava trained up to
continue writing about Linux. PCQ's CD's were not simply a dump of RH
CD's, they are customized to a great deal to help users get up and running
(Simple things like adding DOSsy aliases, itegrating patches etc.). This
takes time, money, and offers little financial reward. *All* this was done
by Atul. (Remeber the hacked Rh 6.2 CD which made Sis cards work out of
the box??)

I hope I don't have to tell you about the number of articles he has
written, making life easier for newbies like me. visit
www.pcquest.com/linux for a small sample.

If you think PCQ's efforts are negligible, they're not. The address
linux-project@xxxxxxxxxxx has received literally tens of thousands of help
requests over the years. I should know -I've been on that list, and
answered many hundreds myself. I would say 90% of Indian users have
built their fascination for Linux from a PCQ CD authored by Atul. Not just
authored - but as a contributing editor to PCQ, it was him who convinced
PCQ that Linux was the way to go.

Atul has also almost single handedly (Jessie, Biju, KD, Gopi, you are not
forgotten) organized and coordinated the Linux India stall at IT.COM for
the last two years. This involves coordinating volunteers, usually feeding
large number of people for days on end, extending his home and hospitality
to anyone eager to come, and without a place to stay (me for example).
Most of these costs are forgotten, and never repaid by sponsors. This is
apart from the time and money put into it. I can say without hesitation,
that there would be no IT COM without him badgering KK for stall space in
the pavillion for days on end. I've witnessed many of these negotiations

Yes, Atul does get business out of it. Yes, he makes money. Is there a
problem here? Have you ever seen an Exocore logo in a LI stall ?

Like I said, this is just a very very brief list - not counting the
hundereds of lectures, talks (for free included) and seminars he has
given, the evangalizing he has done in all forms of media etc etc. Just
trust me when I say, it's a lot.

Finally : who am I, and why have I chosen to speak out now? The first part
is irrelvant, because my own contributions are meager. What is important
is why I chose to speak. I've been on this list long enough to write an
accurate story of LI's history. I dropped out of being an active member
several years ago, when times were much like this. When dirt flies, it
sticks to everyone, including those not involved. Atul is a classic case
of this. In personal communication, I've repeatedly advised him to ignore
both Suresh and ragh00's virulent posts, but he chose to ignore my advice.

Today, there are kids in college who have the audacity to sling dirt at
him, merely because they see it being thrown at him (by ragh00 of all
people), and base their impressions on that. Suresh is attempting to give
ragh00 'respectability' on this list - something which is not a part of
his character. And I see my friends (such as Kalyan) being told to 'cool
off' when they stand up for some one who has taught them all that they

I say to you Suresh : cool off. I don't know you, but I've seen your kind.
You petty agenda is not welcome here. I know you are going to post a long
rebuttal to my mail, but let me assure you - I have no intention of
dignifying it with a reply.

Finally : I know there are a lot of people on this list who are watching
with disgust at the way things are on this list. I hate the mud slinging
as much as any of you (which is why I have remained silent all this
while), but I think that it's now time to "clean up this town". I propose
that we temporarily come out of our cocoons to put an end to this once and
for all. The next time venom is spouted, please shout it down.

I'd like to get back to talking about Linux now.


Nikhil Datta
Indian Institute of Management Kozhikode.

<Hence forth to be classified as an underling, loyal slave, zombie
etc.etc. )

So be it.

-- Virtue is a relative term.
		-- Spock, "Friday's Child", stardate 3499.1