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Re: [Long Post] Time to clean up this town.

> the most part, ignored him. This has usually led to his crawling back
> where he comes from with his tail between his legs. I invite you to look

Now what is mr something@excore_and_mr_something@cmil ?
Are you trying to decide for the list if Rag00 is some good at all or not?
Aren't you marshalling here?

Suresh must have been the most "active" member here. saying a small "thank
you" on the conclusion of something that has slowly crept into talks inside
our family, doesn't waste your "bandwidth", starting string of fart such as
_this_ does.

> This alone gives ragh00
> the guts to keep posting his obscenity.

You need to read your own mail first.

> As the saying goes : "A man is
> known by the friends he keeps" - I am not surprised Ragh00 is your friend

now shud we be surprised that "you have an exocore address" ?

> I would say 90% of Indian users have
> built their fascination for Linux from a PCQ CD authored by Atul. Not just
> authored - but as a contributing editor to PCQ, it was him who convinced
> PCQ that Linux was the way to go.

Are you now looking for a nobel for that? (nobel for peace and nobel for
social service and nobel for ...)

oh by the way congrats on getting yet another id,

Let Atul continue his good work while you keep writing for him.

r /\ |-| |_| |_
First, they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win -- MG

The Northern Linux lug-northindia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nikhil Datta" <nikk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <linux-india-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:45 PM
Subject: [LIG] [Long Post] Time to clean up this town.

> On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
> > > Some things here tend to go a bit too off-topic, even for a general
> > > list.
> >
> > What he said.  Cool it, Kalyan ...
> Some things here are making me a little sick. To start with Suresh, you
> *don't* need to reply to every single post on LIG (and any other list of
> which you are a member). There was a rant and rave against one of Atul's
> longer posts, but your numerous rebuttals and general 'marshalling' (such
> as your post to Kalyan to cool off) waste every bit as much bandwidth. You
> are not the appointed referee on this list. You also do not need to thank
> swati, tarique and ragh00 *on the list* for *swati* agreeing not to
> pursuing charges against ragh00. Just where do you fit in ??
> Before I go on, let me clarify : I *do* have an "exocore.com" address. So
> let any bias against me be assumed from the start. I also have a
> "cmil.com" address (linked to PCQuest) Let that also be known before I
> begin. If you do not like long posts, do not read on. If you feel I'm
> wasting your bandwidth, tough.
> Suresh, you seem to be making a great effort to justify and find reason in
> each of ragh00's profane posts. Ragh00 is a known trouble maker, and has
> persistently been making a nusiance of himself for several years. In the
> past, people on the list have seen his posts for what they are, and for
> up the archives for the content in all of Ragh00's posts since he became a
> member of any of these lists. I believe thaths sees this, because, while
> we have had foul posts in the past, they've not resulted in anyone being
> blocked. Back to the point, Suresh is the first person to find reason in
> his madness, and try to make him out to be the "injured" party here. Let's
> be clear about who is the problem here. Suresh's subtle, 'seemingly
> balanced' view (to a newbie who does not know history here) paints a
> distored picture to those who do not know better. This alone gives ragh00
> the guts to keep posting his obscenity.
> I'd also like to rebut one of your earlier claims about "X has done a lot
> more for Linux in India than you have, so X is above criticism". No one
> claims Atul is above criticism. I object to this (very Western) phenomenon
> of bringing down every hero for petty personal gain (Clarification : I do
> not claim Atul to be anyone's hero). In this case, I wold say your
> personal gain would be to somehow try and gain a status akin to his in the
> community, by bringing him down. I'm afraid you are sadly off the mark
> here. While your tips on Sendmail are appreciated, your earlier
> characteriztion as an ego inflated trigger-happy 'netcop' is the one that
> has stuck in all our minds. Must be because it is so true. You will not
> gain the respect of people here by bringing anyone down, or forcing them
> off the list by your lies and accusations. As the saying goes : "A man is
> known by the friends he keeps" - I am not surprised Ragh00 is your friend.
> Linux India is a community, and while we have no "president" or "high
> priest", we do have members of the community who are respected for their
> contributions and role they have played. And yours, or anyone else's on
> the list personal contribution pales in front of Atul's. For all the new
> users here, let me give you a brief recap of who Atul Chitnis is, and some
> of what his contribution to Linux Indian has been. I'd like you all to
> keep this in mind before slinging any mud in his direction.
> Atul Chitnis is currently the web master of LI, using server space and
> bandwidth paid for from Exocore's pocket. I do not even see an exocore
> logo on any of the pages. So much for commercial gain.
> The first Linux CD (and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th an so on) distributed by a
> magazine in India, were entirely his efforts with PCQuest (search for
> pcquest + raghoo on the Li list archives for an appreciation of the things
> ragh00 has to say about PCQ's efforts over the years). I was among the
> small band of people at PCQ who Atul and Kishore Bhargava trained up to
> continue writing about Linux. PCQ's CD's were not simply a dump of RH
> CD's, they are customized to a great deal to help users get up and running
> (Simple things like adding DOSsy aliases, itegrating patches etc.). This
> takes time, money, and offers little financial reward. *All* this was done
> by Atul. (Remeber the hacked Rh 6.2 CD which made Sis cards work out of
> the box??)
> I hope I don't have to tell you about the number of articles he has
> written, making life easier for newbies like me. visit
> www.pcquest.com/linux for a small sample.
> If you think PCQ's efforts are negligible, they're not. The address
> linux-project@xxxxxxxxxxx has received literally tens of thousands of help
> requests over the years. I should know -I've been on that list, and
> answered many hundreds myself. I would say 90% of Indian users have
> built their fascination for Linux from a PCQ CD authored by Atul. Not just
> authored - but as a contributing editor to PCQ, it was him who convinced
> PCQ that Linux was the way to go.
> Atul has also almost single handedly (Jessie, Biju, KD, Gopi, you are not
> forgotten) organized and coordinated the Linux India stall at IT.COM for
> the last two years. This involves coordinating volunteers, usually feeding
> large number of people for days on end, extending his home and hospitality
> to anyone eager to come, and without a place to stay (me for example).
> Most of these costs are forgotten, and never repaid by sponsors. This is
> apart from the time and money put into it. I can say without hesitation,
> that there would be no IT COM without him badgering KK for stall space in
> the pavillion for days on end. I've witnessed many of these negotiations
> myself.
> Yes, Atul does get business out of it. Yes, he makes money. Is there a
> problem here? Have you ever seen an Exocore logo in a LI stall ?
> Like I said, this is just a very very brief list - not counting the
> hundereds of lectures, talks (for free included) and seminars he has
> given, the evangalizing he has done in all forms of media etc etc. Just
> trust me when I say, it's a lot.
> Finally : who am I, and why have I chosen to speak out now? The first part
> is irrelvant, because my own contributions are meager. What is important
> is why I chose to speak. I've been on this list long enough to write an
> accurate story of LI's history. I dropped out of being an active member
> several years ago, when times were much like this. When dirt flies, it
> sticks to everyone, including those not involved. Atul is a classic case
> of this. In personal communication, I've repeatedly advised him to ignore
> both Suresh and ragh00's virulent posts, but he chose to ignore my advice.
> Today, there are kids in college who have the audacity to sling dirt at
> him, merely because they see it being thrown at him (by ragh00 of all
> people), and base their impressions on that. Suresh is attempting to give
> ragh00 'respectability' on this list - something which is not a part of
> his character. And I see my friends (such as Kalyan) being told to 'cool
> off' when they stand up for some one who has taught them all that they
> know.
> I say to you Suresh : cool off. I don't know you, but I've seen your kind.
> You petty agenda is not welcome here. I know you are going to post a long
> rebuttal to my mail, but let me assure you - I have no intention of
> dignifying it with a reply.
> Finally : I know there are a lot of people on this list who are watching
> with disgust at the way things are on this list. I hate the mud slinging
> as much as any of you (which is why I have remained silent all this
> while), but I think that it's now time to "clean up this town". I propose
> that we temporarily come out of our cocoons to put an end to this once and
> for all. The next time venom is spouted, please shout it down.
> I'd like to get back to talking about Linux now.
> Regards,
> Nikhil Datta
> Indian Institute of Management Kozhikode.
> <Hence forth to be classified as an underling, loyal slave, zombie
> etc.etc. )
> So be it.
> -- Virtue is a relative term.
> -- Spock, "Friday's Child", stardate 3499.1
> ----------------------------------------------
> LIG is all for free speech.  But it was created
> for a purpose.  Violations of the rules of
> this list will result in stern action.