Re: [Long Post] Time to clean up this town.

[Suresh Ramasubramanian <mallet@xxxxxxx>]

Nikhil Datta rearranged electrons thusly:

> Some things here are making me a little sick. To start with Suresh, you
> *don't* need to reply to every single post on LIG (and any other list of

Yeah, I don't.

> as your post to Kalyan to cool off) waste every bit as much bandwidth. You
> are not the appointed referee on this list. You also do not need to thank
> swati, tarique and ragh00 *on the list* for *swati* agreeing not to
> pursuing charges against ragh00. Just where do you fit in ??

Where I fit in is that I was the guy who mailed all three offlist, and
convinced Raghu to apologize (and to reword his apology).  I hope that clears
things.

> Before I go on, let me clarify : I *do* have an "exocore.com" address. So
> let any bias against me be assumed from the start. I also have a

I know both those - and they are not relevant to the thread.  No, I'm not in
the habit of jumping on anybody just because he's part of exocore, and I have
been subscribing to PCQ for the last 6 years (and have read a lot of your
articles - including that LDAP howto, which was very helpful).

> Suresh, you seem to be making a great effort to justify and find reason in
> each of ragh00's profane posts. Ragh00 is a known trouble maker, and has

If you will notice, I have been more or less ignoring most of Raghu's posts for
quite some time.  It's only when he went far enough for Doc Tarique / Swati to
want to sue him that I stepped in (offlist) to try and make peace.  It seems to
have worked anyway, seeing that Ragu's apologized and Doc Tarique / Swati have
accepted his apology.

> the most part, ignored him. This has usually led to his crawling back
> where he comes from with his tail between his legs. I invite you to look
> up the archives for the content in all of Ragh00's posts since he became a

I have seen it.  And I see that Raghu's often let his emotions override his
thoughts.

> blocked. Back to the point, Suresh is the first person to find reason in
> his madness, and try to make him out to be the "injured" party here. Let's

Please dont twist my words around.  What the entire ilug-cochin issue boils
down to is apparently two rival factions in a LUG hosting separate websites and
each insisting that theirs is the official Cochin LUG website.

> be clear about who is the problem here. Suresh's subtle, 'seemingly
> balanced' view (to a newbie who does not know history here) paints a

History being the details of whatever flamewars went on in the cochin LUG with
each party equally convinced that they were right?  I have not seen this
particular one but it's a fairly familiar story.

> distored picture to those who do not know better. This alone gives ragh00
> the guts to keep posting his obscenity.
 
If you will notice, I don't condone obscenity at all.  Ragu (or anyone else on
this list) is welcome to argue whatever case he has - in a more civil tone than
he has used in the past, and concentrating on the issue at hand rather than
abusing everyone who posts against him in the thread.  Nobody is going to deny
his right to do that, or are they?

> I'd also like to rebut one of your earlier claims about "X has done a lot
> more for Linux in India than you have, so X is above criticism". No one
> claims Atul is above criticism. 

You are correct there.

> I object to this (very Western) phenomenon
> of bringing down every hero for petty personal gain (Clarification : I do
> not claim Atul to be anyone's hero). In this case, I wold say your
> personal gain would be to somehow try and gain a status akin to his in the

Excuse me, but this is extremely funny.  Status similar to his in the
community?  What do you think I'm doing, starting a parallel LUG?

> community, by bringing him down. I'm afraid you are sadly off the mark
> here. While your tips on Sendmail are appreciated, your earlier
> characteriztion as an ego inflated trigger-happy 'netcop' is the one that

hmmm... speaking of inflated egos, I'm not the only one around here, is the
problem.

> has stuck in all our minds. Must be because it is so true. You will not
> gain the respect of people here by bringing anyone down, or forcing them
> off the list by your lies and accusations.

"Forcing someone off the list with lies and accusations"?  Now that's rich,
very rich.

> As the saying goes : "A man is
> known by the friends he keeps" - I am not surprised Ragh00 is your friend.

I have at least seen you (briefly) at it.com.  I have not even met Ragoo.  He's
not my friend - but he's not my enemy either.

> Linux India is a community, and while we have no "president" or "high
> priest", we do have members of the community who are respected for their
> contributions and role they have played. And yours, or anyone else's on

You know something?  I do have a lot of respect for Atul and his role in the
PCQ linux project.

> The first Linux CD (and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th an so on) distributed by a
> magazine in India, were entirely his efforts with PCQuest (search for
> pcquest + raghoo on the Li list archives for an appreciation of the things

And who's denying that the PCQ linux project has done a great job?  Certainly
not I.

> ragh00 has to say about PCQ's efforts over the years). I was among the

Please reread what I said about "contribution to linux" earlier.

> I hope I don't have to tell you about the number of articles he has
> written, making life easier for newbies like me. visit
> www.pcquest.com/linux for a small sample.
 
So, ok - you identify Atul with the PCQ linux project.  Very true of course,
but what has that got to do with the thread here?

> Today, there are kids in college who have the audacity to sling dirt at
> him, merely because they see it being thrown at him (by ragh00 of all
> people), and base their impressions on that. Suresh is attempting to give

On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog.  Or a kid in college.  Or anyone
else.  You (or me, or anyone else) are a person, that's all.  Posts are taken
at their face value, without benefit of extra baggage like status in the linux
community etc etc.

> ragh00 'respectability' on this list - something which is not a part of
> his character. 

What I "attempted" to do (and managed to do as well) was to avert a fairly ugly
quarrel which would have converted a list flamewar to a lawsuit.  Nobody needs
that.

> And I see my friends (such as Kalyan) being told to 'cool
> off' when they stand up for some one who has taught them all that they
> know.

I was not the first (or the only) person to do so, you know ... 

> I say to you Suresh : cool off. I don't know you, but I've seen your kind.
> You petty agenda is not welcome here. I know you are going to post a long
> rebuttal to my mail, but let me assure you - I have no intention of
> dignifying it with a reply.

Please feel free not to.  If you haven't already, please do procmail me to
/dev/null (or add me to your access.db or whatever).   Finally, just a point -
my "long" rebuttal is actually quite short (if the stuff I quoted from your
post is removed).

> <Hence forth to be classified as an underling, loyal slave, zombie
> etc.etc. )
 
Thanks but no thanks.  others might bite this piece of bait, but you aren't
going to troll me into abusing you.  Nice try but no cigar.

	-suresh

-- 
Suresh Ramasubramanian  <-->  mallet <at> efn <dot> org
EMail Sturmbannfuhrer, Lower Middle Class Unix Sysadmin
"What separates normal people from kooks is how they react when people disagree
with them or tell them "NO"  <-- Ron Ritzman on news.admin.net-abuse.email