Re: [achitnis@exocore.com: [linux@it.com] State of the Onion]

[Prabhu Ramachandran <prabhu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

hi,

>>>>> "Ravikant" == Ravikant K Rao <ravi@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

    Prabhu> Why on earth should I write anything at all??!!  Next

    Ravikant> 		Because you're "List Admin" and "Group
    Ravikant> Co-ordinator" of ILUG-Chennai - and I personally infact

	So?  How does it make me responsible for co-luggie activities?

    Ravikant> wrote up a fairly long rant mail about why we are doing
    Ravikant> practically nothing - But I didn't send it in because I
    Ravikant> thought it wouldn't be right for me to speak for ILUG-C,
    Ravikant> .. you know .. self appointed speaker or whatever - I

	Well, if you felt that way you couldve posted it to me and I
could have said.  it looks ok and doesnt offend any sensibilities.

    Ravikant> preferred List Admin to do it - At any rate, I most
    Ravikant> certainly wanted you guys [ ilugc members ] to *know*
    Ravikant> that we're not doing too well on the national front -
    Ravikant> thats all.

	Well, are we doing well on the local front.  Same problem.

    Prabhu> time.  I am not the only person from ILUGC, am I?  How
    Prabhu> about others?  There are atleast 30-40 other people here
    Prabhu> who can do something about IT.com.  What are you doing?
    Prabhu> Why me??  I have enough responsibilities as it is.

    Ravikant> 	    Uh I apologise... I didn't quite mean it *that*

	Well it is ok.  But it irks me to see that I have to goad
people to do something that we apparently share a passion for.

    Ravikant> way - which is why, "Any comments/suggestions?" ...


    Ravikant> 	  Again, there are quite a few people at ilug-c who
    Ravikant> can talk - Swaraj about security and other stuff, mks
    Ravikant> about localisation, zam about cvs, and so on - -shrug- -
    Ravikant> I refuse to make any more proxy-volunteering though - i
    Ravikant> was only speaking names that I knew had already talked
    Ravikant> about the respective topics.

	But these are not trivial talks.  They most prolly are
professional talks.  I dont know who will be willing to make talks of
that kind at IT.com.

    Atul> some concrete action on this over the next 4 days, I am
    Atul> going to recommend that we drop the tech-talks. We need at

    Ravikant> 	  I know this sounds weird - but I strongly believe
    Ravikant> that tech talks *are* required.

	Yes, but who will talk is the question.

    Prabhu> You mean posters and stuff? What exactly do you want?
    Prabhu> Could the members of ILUGC who are on the linux@xxxxxx
    Prabhu> list post us consise request such as this?

    Ravikant> 	    members? As far as I know, I'm the only guy on the
    Ravikant> linux@xxxxxx mailing lsit from chennailug - not sure

	Bad.  But hey, Ravi, thanks for brining this whole issue up,
really.

    Ravikant> though And no, I dont know of any such request(s) -
    Ravikant> don't quote me though - I poll about 1000 mails per day,
    Ravikant> on top of regular work/fun/life - i *could* have very
    Ravikant> easily let a couple slip past me.

	Then what is Atul talking about and what does he want?
	    
    Atul> We have heard nothing from the Bombay, Hyderabad, Chennai or
    Atul> Cochin LUGs. Since these are prominent neighbouring LUGs, I
    Atul> find this strange. Very strange. What happened to the
    Atul> community spirit?

    Ravikant> 	     What I wanted to add here was that - Just 'cause
    Ravikant> we didn't get down to doing stuff, doesn't quite mean
    Ravikant> we're not into "community spirit" or whatever.All of us
    Ravikant> here *ARE* informal, and we like it that way. Please

	Exactly, just as there were so many folks at the li-reg list
who did not understand/appreciate commercial issues I think there are
commercial folks who do not understand informal non-commercial
LUG's. :)

    Ravikant> don't (try to) commercialise ilugc - I swear I for one
    Ravikant> am out of the lug if that ever happens.

    Ravikant> 	    All I will say is that people should not come to
    Ravikant> quick, hasty and nasty decisions without a look at the
    Ravikant> entire scenario

	Exactly.

    Ravikant> 	     I *do* take objection to the rather offensive
    Ravikant> language/tone of Atul's mail - That you make it sound as
    Ravikant> though *all* of ilug-bangalore is dying for it.com
    Ravikant> sounds rather hard to believe - i just saw a mail from
    Ravikant> shanu wherein he apprised people of "who-is-doing-what"
    Ravikant> in the multimedia section or whatever - he *HIMSELF*
    Ravikant> said, "there's only me/gandalf/mrinal" ... and to add a
    Ravikant> couple more names, there's probably
    Ravikant> atul,gopi,khader,mahendra,biju who're doing something -
    Ravikant> with >150 people attending each meet, you have hardly 10
    Ravikant> people "in the thick of things" - with approx. 20 people
    Ravikant> per meet here, i can quote right off the head -

    Ravikant> me/zameer/swaraj/mks/suraj who will sit down and get
    Ravikant> things done had the entire thing been "entrusted" to us
    Ravikant> had the it.com thingie taken place in chennai. remember
    Ravikant> that you guys are still physically inside bangalore and
    Ravikant> suchlike - we here are a different buncha people, with
    Ravikant> different mindsets, and different responsibilities - the

Ravi, cool it.  You are obviously angry.  Fundamental rule, never post 
in anger.  Well, we all violate it at times. :)

    Ravikant> primary focus of bangalorelug seems to be, generating
    Ravikant> presentations to use to deliver talks and the "author"
    Ravikant> *READS* out whats on the screen/projector - wow - how
<snip>
    Ravikant> objecting. And if random people who dont belong in this
    Ravikant> lug dont like it, um, they dont matter.

    Ravikant> 	   Please dont commercialise or mess up the way
    Ravikant> ilugc's working - its going along just fine - as for
    Ravikant> rude statements with no base, and no research, it just
    Ravikant> goes to show how much more people need to mature, before
    Ravikant> taking the reins in their hands.

Hey you are going completely off. This has no relevance.  Atul did not
want to make any changes in the way ILUGC works and even if he did we
wouldnt change would we? :)  Cool it man.  We like ilugc the way it
is, yes.  We are less aggressive about linux, yes.  Atul doesnt like
it, maybe.  But why call names over it??  Atul is upset and wants more 
participation.  Here is most prolly what is actually happening.

Atul and others slog to get money from PCQ and others.  Now, not too
many people (or not as many as Atul and others would like) are
interested in IT.com.  This makes the sponsors crib to Atul, saying
folks arent interested.  Now, Atul is pained.  Worse people accuse him
of misusing the funds to his advantage.  Now, Atul is pissed.  He
posts in desperation and anger trying to get interest.  And now he
gets flamed.  I think you'd agree that this is a possible
scenario. No?

    Ravikant> 	   Right - I agree that Atul *has* taken a major role,
    Ravikant> and *someone* has to be held responsible and he has been
    Ravikant> brave about it - I am glad for him, and that Linux in
    Ravikant> India is in good hands - BUT that you should go
    Ravikant> overboard and say, "ilug-bangalore kicks ass - the rest
    Ravikant> of the lugs are...." is not quite what I expected. I'm

	Well not all of the lugs are bad according to Atul.  Chennai,
Cochin, and some others.

    Ravikant> sorry if this sounded harsh - its not meant to be harsh
    Ravikant> - It was just an effort to explain that we guys in
    Ravikant> chennai are not just the plain buncha lazy losers that
    Ravikant> atul or prabhu make us out to be.

	Oh well, this is hilarious.  You were the one who posted
saying we are doing badly in the Indian context.  I tried to reply
sanely to Atul saying it is always tough to get volunteers, that we
are different and that I wasnt to be held responsible for this.  Why
do you rake me in?

prabhu

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