[achitnis@exocore.com: [linux@it.com] State of the Onion]

[Prabhu Ramachandran <prabhu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

hi, 

	I agree almost completely with Atul here.  It has been my
experience too that during times when people are required very few
turn up.  

    Ravikant> Guys, Apparently Atul isn't very happy about the lack of
    Ravikant> participation of ChennaiLUG at IT.COM - very
    Ravikant> understandbly so - I vote that Prabhu write an
    Ravikant> "explanatory" and maybe "apologetic" email about the
    Ravikant> situation - Any comments/votes?

	Why on earth should I write anything at all??!!  Next thing
you will say is I should go to Bangalore, and do something for IT.com.
This is crazy.  I dont have the time.  I am not the only person from
ILUGC, am I?  How about others?  There are atleast 30-40 other people
here who can do something about IT.com.  What are you doing?  Why me??
I have enough responsibilities as it is.

<snip>

    Atul> We have been talking ourselves silly to sponsors for the
    Atul> tech-talks, but since there are no speakers and no
    Atul> topics to show, we are making zero headway on this. If
    Atul> we do not see some concrete action on this over the next
    Atul> 4 days, I am going to recommend that we drop the
    Atul> tech-talks. We need at least 250K to be able to hold the
    Atul> talks. No plans - no sponsors. And no sponsors, no
    Atul> talks. Period.

	What kind of techtalks are these?  How many people are capable
of delivering such talks?  Do you want volunteers or are you going to
pay folks for giving talks??

    Atul> Similarly, unless we see someone taking charge of the
    Atul> home computing section, that will be dropped, too.

	What is home computing?  What exactly do you want?? Ideas or??

    Atul> As I had mentioned earlier, there are a couple of
    Atul> sections that I had not spoken about. These are the
    Atul> Indianized Linux and Linux Installs sections.

    Atul> The reason why I have been hesitating on these two is
    Atul> for completely opposite reasons.

    Atul> I have been doing some (albeit limited) private research
    Atul> here, and have concluded that the Indianized Linux
    Atul> (localization) scenario appears to be non-existent.

	M K Saravanan <mksarav@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> is the most
competent around here to talk about localization. 

    Atul> Most of the "action" seems to be on the talking side
    Atul> ("We *should* indianize Linux", etc.), but apart from
    Atul> someone showing me Indian fonts in Netscape, I have not
    Atul> seen or heard of anything else.

    Atul> If I am wrong, prove it. Don't come and tell me about
    Atul> Devanagari, Tamil or Kannada fonts in Netscape - that is
    Atul> not localization. And don't talk about "Aryabhatta
    Atul> Linux" or "Aryan Linux" or other marketing gimmicks like
    Atul> these, either. There is nothing Indian about them.

	You evidently are not aware of Tamil KDE...

    Atul> I need to see proof that there is any localization
    Atul> effort going on at all before this section becomes
    Atul> feasible. I don't want us to be the laughing stock of
    Atul> the computing world by talking big and then having
    Atul> nothing to show.

	Tamil KDE is not a project that was initiated by ILUGC.  ILUGC
is too laid back to start a project of that kind.  Some of the folks
who are ILUGC members are actively working on localization.  MKS comes
to mind.  I dont know if Suraj is doing something about this.

    Atul> The Linux Installs section I have not talked about for a
    Atul> very obvious reason - calling for volunteers for that
    Atul> will get floods of them. There will be an install
    Atul> section, demoing installs of all distros we can lay our
    Atul> hands on. However, since even a 9 year old kid,
    Atul> blindfolded and with one arm tied behind her back can do
    Atul> a Linux install these days, we are just going to assign
    Atul> a couple of people out of the general volunteer pool for
    Atul> this one.

	You obviously havent tried a fresh Debian install. :)

    Atul> What we really need now is "special" stuff - stuff you
    Atul> cannot see anywhere else. Or something that makes a
    Atul> major difference. Guru's library project is an excellent

	Like what?  Please give us URL's on this.  "special" and
"major difference" are all relative terms.  But I am sure you can find 
software developed by Indians, if that is what you mean.

    Atul> example - once people see this, it is bound to have an
    Atul> impact on our country, because it is both free and
    Atul> *needed*. The same applies to the education section.

    Atul> But the rest of our exhibits, while impressive, will
    Atul> generate "but I can do this in Windows" kind of
    Atul> responses from visitors. Cost does not play a role here.

	So what?  Are you trying to convert windows users to linux
users??  If a person does not want to learn there is no point in
converting them to linux.  I dont think one can switch to linux or any
other OS if one doesnt want to learn or change.

    Atul> We need a sub-section on system administration. A
    Atul> parallel theme of inter-operability with other OSs. An
    Atul> "India powered by Linux" section that shows just how
    Atul> much India can gain from Linux. Stuff like that.

	You mean posters and stuff? What exactly do you want?  Could
the members of ILUGC who are on the linux@xxxxxx list post us consise
request such as this?

    Atul> We also need more participation from other
    Atul> LUGs. Currently, efforts are largely by Bangalore
    Atul> guys. While this is understandable, it is not enough.
    Atul> The only stand-alone sections handled by anyone else are
    Atul> those from the Goa and Nagpur LUGs. The only LUGs
    Atul> lending their support to any project are the Delhi and
    Atul> Calcutta LUGs.

	What projects?  What kind of support??

    Atul> We have heard nothing from the Bombay, Hyderabad,
    Atul> Chennai or Cochin LUGs. Since these are prominent
    Atul> neighbouring LUGs, I find this strange. Very
    Atul> strange. What happened to the community spirit?

	Well, nothing!  Different LUG's are different.  A lot of the
members here are very casual.  We are completely informal.  Those who
are active are already busy with a host of other things.  I really
cant speak for others and the above lines certainly apply to me.

    Atul> And lastly - I received a note yesterday from someone
    Atul> who wanted to "volunteer" and asked if volunteers are
    Atul> being paid anything.

    Atul> Is this the state of Linux in India?

	One poster != All posters

Never judge the state of a community by one person.  On the same count
look at any of the key members of LI, I could look at them and say
Linux in India is great, huh?

    Atul> If you find this long note offensive and too
    Atul> hard-hitting, no apologies.

    Atul> If you are already active and doing something, this note
    Atul> does not affect you. If you did feel something, it is
    Atul> because you aren't doing anything.

	I guess you mean active as in taking active part in IT.com.
If this is the case I strongly disagree.  Everyone is doing something
as far as free software/linux is concerned.  Not everyone is going to
do what you do.  Not everyone may be able to take active part in
IT.com.  We faced similar problems during both the linux demo day and
more so during the PCQ expo here where Lateral funded a stall for
ILUGC.  There were interested people but a lot of them had
difficulties making it.

    Atul> Get off your butts, please. Linux is a participative
    Atul> project, not a spectator sport.

	All I can do is to make a request on ILUGC for more people to
participate.

	And Atul, dont forget it was the idea of an ILUGC member that
set off the discussion on allowing ILUGB to represent LI for this
years IT.com.  If that hadnt happened you would have a linux
representation at IT.com!  I dont mean that you must be grateful.  But
just remember that people can contribute in different ways...

prabhu
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