Re: [achitnis@exocore.com: [linux@it.com] State of the Onion]

["Ravikant K. Rao" <ravi@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Greetings,

>>>>> "Prabhu" == Prabhu Ramachandran <prabhu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

    Prabhu> 	Why on earth should I write anything at all??!!  Next

		Because you're "List Admin" and "Group Co-ordinator"
of ILUG-Chennai - and I personally infact wrote up a fairly long rant
mail about why we are doing practically nothing - But I didn't send it
in because I thought it wouldn't be right for me to speak for ILUG-C,
.. you know .. self appointed speaker or whatever - I preferred List
Admin to do it - At any rate, I most certainly wanted you guys [ ilugc
members ] to *know* that we're not doing too well on the national
front - thats all.

    Prabhu> time.  I am not the only person from ILUGC, am I?  How
    Prabhu> about others?  There are atleast 30-40 other people here
    Prabhu> who can do something about IT.com.  What are you doing?
    Prabhu> Why me??  I have enough responsibilities as it is.

	    Uh I apologise... I didn't quite mean it *that* way -
which is why, "Any comments/suggestions?" ... 

    Atul> We have been talking ourselves silly to sponsors for the
    Atul> tech-talks, but since there are no speakers and no topics to
    Atul> show, we are making zero headway on this. If we do not see

	  Again, there are quite a few people at ilug-c who can talk -
Swaraj about security and other stuff, mks about localisation, zam
about cvs, and so on  - -shrug- - I refuse to make any more
proxy-volunteering though - i was only speaking names that I knew had
already talked about the respective topics.

    Atul> some concrete action on this over the next 4 days, I am
    Atul> going to recommend that we drop the tech-talks. We need at

	  I know this sounds weird - but I strongly believe that tech
talks *are* required. 

    Atul> on. However, since even a 9 year old kid, blindfolded and
    Atul> with one arm tied behind her back can do a Linux install

    Prabhu> 	You obviously havent tried a fresh Debian install. :)

		hehehe ;)

    Prabhu> 	Like what?  Please give us URL's on this.  "special"
    Prabhu> and "major difference" are all relative terms.  But I am
    Prabhu> sure you can find software developed by Indians, if that
    Prabhu> is what you mean.

	       gimp? (Manish Singh) 

    Atul> But the rest of our exhibits, while impressive, will
    Atul> generate "but I can do this in Windows" kind of responses
    Atul> from visitors. Cost does not play a role here.

    Prabhu> 	So what?  Are you trying to convert windows users to
    Prabhu> linux users??  If a person does not want to learn there is
    Prabhu> no point in converting them to linux.  I dont think one
    Prabhu> can switch to linux or any other OS if one doesnt want to
    Prabhu> learn or change.

	    Exactly - I agree with prabhu completely. Infact, imho,
one should project the idea(s) like "linux can do <blah> <blah> in a
very nice way..." - like kinda kindle interests, and leave it at that,
so that they get their hands dirty, trying to fix stuff - its not a
case of "i am better than you" or whatever.

    Prabhu> 	You mean posters and stuff? What exactly do you want?
    Prabhu> Could the members of ILUGC who are on the linux@xxxxxx
    Prabhu> list post us consise request such as this?

	    members? As far as I know, I'm the only guy on the
linux@xxxxxx mailing lsit from chennailug - not sure though
	    And no, I dont know of any such request(s) - don't quote
me though - I poll about 1000 mails per day, on top of regular
work/fun/life - i *could* have very easily let a couple slip past me.
	    
    Atul> We have heard nothing from the Bombay, Hyderabad, Chennai or
    Atul> Cochin LUGs. Since these are prominent neighbouring LUGs, I
    Atul> find this strange. Very strange. What happened to the
    Atul> community spirit?

	     What I wanted to add here was that - Just 'cause
we didn't get down to doing stuff, doesn't quite mean we're not into
"community spirit" or whatever.All of us here *ARE* informal, and we
like it that way. Please don't (try to) commercialise ilugc - I swear
I for one am out of the lug if that ever happens.

    Atul> If you find this long note offensive and too hard-hitting,
    Atul> no apologies.

	  Neat. 

    Atul> Get off your butts, please. Linux is a participative
    Atul> project, not a spectator sport.

    Prabhu> 	All I can do is to make a request on ILUGC for more
    Prabhu> people to participate.

    Prabhu> 	And Atul, dont forget it was the idea of an ILUGC
    Prabhu> member that set off the discussion on allowing ILUGB to
    Prabhu> represent LI for this years IT.com.  If that hadnt
    Prabhu> happened you would have a linux representation at IT.com!
    Prabhu> I dont mean that you must be grateful.  But just remember
    Prabhu> that people can contribute in different ways...

	    All I will say is that people should not come to
quick, hasty and nasty decisions without a look at the entire scenario

	     I *do* take objection to the rather offensive
language/tone of Atul's mail - That you make it sound as though *all*
of ilug-bangalore is dying for it.com sounds rather hard to believe -
i just saw a mail from shanu wherein he apprised people of
"who-is-doing-what" in the multimedia section or whatever - he
*HIMSELF* said, "there's only me/gandalf/mrinal" ... and to add a
couple more names, there's probably atul,gopi,khader,mahendra,biju who're
doing something - with >150 people attending each meet, you have
hardly 10 people "in the thick of things" - with approx. 20 people per
meet here, i can quote right off the head - me/zameer/swaraj/mks/suraj
who will sit down and get things done had the entire thing been
"entrusted" to us had the it.com thingie taken place in
chennai. remember that you guys are still physically inside bangalore
and suchlike - we here are a different buncha people, with different
mindsets, and different responsibilities - the primary focus of
bangalorelug seems to be, generating presentations to use to deliver
talks and the "author" *READS* out whats on the screen/projector - wow
- how very exciting - i attended the september meet (or was it
october?) and udhay talked about cryptography and pgp and system
security - he expanded DES, and PGP and concluded the talk in under 10
minutes flat - feel free to confirm with anyone else who attended that
meeting if i'm kidding - now, we guys here grilled kar when he talked
about gpg/pgp - he spent about an hour with no slides - but *everyone*
listened to the talks - but in bangalore lug, we had some random guy
in the last row showing off his laptop and the eats coming up and
everyone desparate to grab their plate lest they go home hungry - now,
i didn't like any of this - *I* wanted it to be different - But do I
bitch about it? No. I don't and i'm not allowed to. Its *YOUR* lug in
bangalore and you do with it, what you like. I have a laptop too. But
its not like I *have* to bring it to the lug and run window maker
themes on it, with semi-clad women for backgrounds - no - But do I
bitch about it to the people behind ilug-bangalore? No - So please
realise that the actvities of ilug-chennai are of no concern to anyone
else. We do with the lug, what we want to - Again, I am not sure if
that sounded right - Okay, *I* act on the lug, the way *I* want to. No
one seems to be objecting. And if random people who dont belong in
this lug dont like it, um, they dont matter.

	   Please dont commercialise or mess up the way ilugc's
working - its going along just fine - as for rude statements with no
base, and no research, it just goes to show how much more people need
to mature, before taking the reins in their hands.

	   Right - I agree that Atul *has* taken a major role, and
*someone* has to be held responsible and he has been brave about it -
I am glad for him, and that Linux in India is in good hands - BUT that
you should go overboard and say, "ilug-bangalore kicks ass - the rest
of the lugs are...." is not quite what I expected. I'm sorry if this
sounded harsh - its not meant to be harsh - It was just an effort to
explain that we guys in chennai are not just the plain buncha lazy
losers that atul or prabhu make us out to be. 

	    

	-ravi  
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