Re: Linux India registration.

[Arun Sharma <adsharma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2000 at 06:51:48AM +0000, Nikhil Datta wrote:
> Why not (at the least) archive the list and make the archives public? it
> would be less of a problem then a weekly digest, which in my opinion
> is a waste of time anyway - why would I be interested in reading what
> happened a week ago?

This has been proposed on li-reg and the majority opinion will be
honored.

> Your mail to KK mentions that you're in the second of a four
> week schedule. What is the progress?

You will probably see a more detailed status posted later - but
I believe we have debated several contentious issues and there are
two different proposals for a constitution.

> What are the issues being discussed? What are the stumbling blocks? How
> can I use my (perhaps related) expertise to help?. Surely there are
> several people who may be interested, and are knowledgable about such
> matters, who would be able to contribute.

Absolutely. You're welcome to post your thoughts to LIG and they'll
be promptly forwarded to li-reg for discussion.

> Making the list closed serves no purpose except to create an air of
> secrecy and bad feelings.(which, looking at the i-lug b'lore list,
> seems to have already happened)

Noted. As I said, this issue is under debate on li-reg.

> It's a good idea to have national representation, but it may be severly
> skewed. Active LUG's like I LUG Bangalore, with over 300 registered
> members, and regular meetings with over 100 attendees, surely need a
> greater representation than a small LUG (like the nascent ILUG Calicut
> here, with about 6 members).

My opinion too. I proposed a scheme on this on li-reg. But it has
implementation difficulties. How do you determine that ILUGB has 300
"real" members ? This is being debated too. A workable solution may
be to divide ILUGs into classes (metro, smalltown, village etc)

> Your message to KK, I quote "It has been brought to our attention that
> IT COM is  an important event ...", conveys a curious lack of connection
> with the IT scene in India.

Sure, I drafted it. But it was posted, reviewed and voted on. Please 
convey your objection to your ILUG rep, so that it is discussed.

> Surely everyone on the LI-reg list knows how big IT COM was last year,
> and what the response to Linux Stall was. I'm sure it did not have
> to be "brought to anyone's attention'. I'm a bit worried about the
> direction the list discussions are taking if they are this far removed
> from major events in the IT scene here.

I have no problems accepting the fact that my only window the linux
scene in India is this mailing list. My opinions are formed based 
from these mailing lists.

Please read the archives of li-reg once they're public on what 
people from other ILUGs think about IT.COM. It might be instructive.

> I don't see how this is possible, given that : a) two of the scheduled
> four weeks are already over b) In this extremely wired world in which
> we live, it's hard to imagine 'discussing issues' based on a week old
> digest of discussions of 10 members on a closed list. A discussion of
> a digest would be a post mortem, not an interactive generation of ideas.

This (live li-reg feeds) is one of the proposals in front of
li-reg. Again, please talk to your ILUG rep to support it.

> > I believe this is how the Indian constitution was done.

> This is obtuse. I fail to see any similarity between creating a
> constitution for LI and for India.

Nikhil, do you think your language is helping anything ? We've
enough damage done already by people losing their patience. It'd
really help if everyone here is a bit calm and appreciative of
other people's efforts.

> Arun, while I am appreciative of the fact that you and Thaths and KD
> are some of the founding members and pillars of the LI community, I
> believe that the 'select group' may be over stepping its importance in
> taking such decisions and conducting such activities in a closed manner.

Thaths or I don't have any desire to be the office bearers or 
controlling authorities of anything. We don't even vote on li-reg.
I don't know where this 'select group' thing is coming from.

FYI, KD is taking a long vacation from anything to do with linux, once
the li-reg process is over.

> If noise and schedules were an excuse for closed door decision making,
> surely lkml would be invite-only by now. The fact is that I can still
> mail my uninformed and incorrect ideas on kernel design to lkml, and
> probably get a slam from Linus for what's wrong with it, is enough to
> demonstrate that your argument for a closed list is incorrect.

Good point. LIG = lkml. li-reg = whatever Linus' private mailing list
is called on which they get some work done.

> I don't see how a small group can appoint itself responsible for
> something as significant as this, and close out all else in the process.

This is a classic chicken and egg problem. How do you elect the
election commission ? Are you saying that there was no democracy
involved in nominating the ILUG reps ?

> (it was IT Asia in Delhi at that time). My reason for writing this is
> that, having been watching the events on several lists for a while,
> and knowing KK, who hates such a fruckus,I fear that IT COM may be the
> casualty of other agendas, something I would be very, very pissed about.

Nikk, do you realize how many emails I've typed in the last couple of
days trying to "rectify" a mistake that I never made ? FYI, things are
looking good. PCQ/KK have agreed to use ILUG Bangalore as LI's proxy,
just for this year - provided we address some of the issues raised.
All concerned parties have been contacted. 

I may not be able to type such detailed responses in the coming days,
because I just don't have the time to go to every mailing list talking
about this and correct all the incorrect things being said. All I can
say is: always rely on first hand information and don't say things you
aren't sure about. It'd help a lot.

Thanks for your patience.

	-Arun