Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences....

[Arun Sharma <adsharma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:26:26PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote:
> It can be argued that Linux no longer needs the "push" since it has now
> achieved critical mass and is in the commercial domain. Don't kid yourself
> for a moment - I have seen things come and go faster than you will
> believe. 
> 
> Sadly, many people will only see the hyped up face of Linux, through
> commercial entities who couldn't care less if Linux lives or dies, as long
> as they can make a fast buck off it. Should the glamour fade, they'll drop
> Linux like a hot brick.

I don't see anything wrong with this picture. If say, some high school
student in Bihar writes a new clone of Unix (Laloosux ?) from scratch
and if that's better than Linux, I'll just use that instead of Linux.

So saving Linux from the evil forces of the world is not my goal. Linux
is the OS that suits some of my needs the best today and I use it. I
also help out other people whenever I can, because I think that's fun
and I benefit from more users using the same OS as me.

Beyond that, there isn't anything holy about Linux for me.

> 
> Instead, we are sitting here on our haunches, squabbling over licenses
> and script kiddies, while Microsoft, who follows neither BSD or GPL,
> happily annexes state after state with "Indianised" Windows speaking
> Devanagari and Tamil?

I think the main issue here is - you're worrying about the end users
who use Linux and I'm talking about developer issues. 

In your ideal world, there is a constant stream of innovations coming
from vacuum and then once in a year, Redhat releases a new version of
Linux, which can be used to populate more desktops displacing Windows.

But I worry about who is going to pay Alan Cox ? What will motivate
people to produce high quality Indian language fonts ? Will commercial
software companies use those ? Will Yahoo ever release software for 
the OS I use ? 

> 
> Do you know that even the NIC, the organisation that has taken on the task
> of ensuring that all regions are connected and that data flows between
> them, forces people to use Windows because they insist on the use of
> routing cards that only have Windows drivers?
> 

The problem is not with NIC. The problem is with Linux. The mindset of
not having a device driver API that the card manufacturer can write a
driver to. That is exactly what I'm arguing about in these GPL/BSD debates.

> Do you know that the average Indian (if at all computer savvy) equates
> computers with Windows, and thinks that "Linux is not for the ordinary
> people" but only for techies?

I don't have a problem with that statement as things stand today. I wish
it could be different. But that's the truth. It's not something that I'm
highly motivated to solve. I'm motivated to solve *my* problems (scratching
the itch...). There is plenty of money to be made by solving that problem.

<snip>

> If LI doesn't break its "it's only a list" mindset soon, it will be a
> washout, a has been, a miserable failure. It will have done more for
> Microsoft than Bill Gates could, because if Linux fails to click here in
> India, the TINA ("There is no alternative") concept will be solidly
> reinforced.

It already is. We're trying to remove an already entrenched leader.

> To break this "chalta hai" mindset, we need to do far more than provide a
> platform for people to have flamewars on. We'll need to do a lot more than
> breed license/distro wars.

The flamewars and distrowars are what motivate people to write better
software. Remember KDE/Gnome wars ? Remember Tannenbaum/Linus wars ?

And witness the healthy competition between the Linux and BSD camps
to see how its benefitting both groups.

> Many people here have forgotten that this is Linux *INDIA*, and are
> beginning to equate these lists with any other lists the world over.
> 
> If that is the case, and if this is to be the fate of LI, then we aren't
> sharing the same vision, or even the same goals. We are working at
> cross-purposes.

While I'm sympathetic to your goals and even agree that it should be
the *main* agenda for this newsgroup, other issues that I'm highlighting
should not be brushed aside as irrelevant.

	-Arun

PS: Aside - advocacy is not insignificant. Linux won the mid 90s battle
against BSD partly because of highly vocal Linux advocates.