Re: Free software, proprietary software and Stalin

[Raj Mathur <raju@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Arun,

Essentially you're saying that you use GNU products because they're so
good, but you resent the licensing implications.  Well, it's pretty
simple: don't use GNU products.

I completely fail to see what Communism, Socialism, Objectivism,
Capitalism, etc have to do with this.  The only ``ism'' I can
associate with this movement is (hehheh) ``Freedomism''.  If you're
happy with the software and the license, use it.  If not, *shrug*
there's no dearth of companies waiting out there to sell you mediocre
or downright bad software for lots of money.  Simmilarly, if you don't 
like the GNU license, don't use GNU tools to develop your software and 
don't link them with GNU libraries... there's always a choice.  As far 
as I'm concerned the GNU license (at worst) is no worse than MS'
licenses, and actually stands head and shoulders above, leave alone
proprietary software licenses, even sorry imitations like the Sun
Community Software License.  AND you don't have to subscribe to it if
you don't like it!  No one is pushing it down your throat, no one is
making you work on GNU software or else, no one is preinstalling GPL'd 
software on millions of PC's and making you pay for it... just walk
away!

Regards,

-- Raju

>>>>> "Arun" == Arun Sharma <adsharma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:

    Arun> On Tue, Feb 29, 2000 at 12:49:54PM +0530, Suresh
    Arun> Ramasubramanian wrote:
    >> The GNU project is also about freedom of choice - having a cost
    >> effective alternative to being locked into forced, high priced
    >> upgrades every other month for software which tends to crash
    >> more than function properly.

    Arun> I'm not so sure. No doubt, GNU software has resulted in cost
    Arun> effective free software, but that is not the main goal. Ask
    Arun> RMS and he'll tell that "free" as in speech is a higher goal
    Arun> than providing "free" as in beer software.

    >> Objectivism ... Communism ... GNU is ~not~ an "ISM" for God's
    >> sake.  Take free market economy to its extreme limits and you
    >> get the slumlords and sadistic overseers of the Industrial
    >> Revolution (or Fritz Lang's classic "Metropolis").
    >> 
    >> Get communism and you are forced to give up ALL rights to the
    >> state - and have no freedom of choice at all.  George Orwell's
    >> 1984.
    >> 

    Arun> Well said. I'm arguing that GPL, GNU ideals = communism, an
    Arun> extreme and that we should find the middle ground and that
    Arun> middle ground is the BSD license.

    Arun> I think that BSD licensed software is more practical and
    Arun> benefits the end user more than GPL'ed software, because
    Arun> GPL'ed software tries to force it's philosophy into every
    Arun> form of software it mixes with.
 
    >> Ayn Rand's "Objectivism" is, at best, an extremely ill defined
    >> and rambling concept - a "plague on both your houses" rant
    >> rejecting both communism and capitalism.

    Arun> It wasn't my idea. Tariq brought it up. I just noted that it
    Arun> didn't match GNU ideals.

    >> > also rejects the current "mixed economy" notion > that the
    >> government should regulate the economy
    >> 
    >> Utopian.  The GNU is not out to take control of your life, and
    >> arrest you for using non GNU products.  In fact, open source
    >> means much better integration with proprietory products (like
    >> those M$ trots out).

    Arun> GNU project does and will attempt to sue me if I try to mix
    Arun> their product in proprietary products. At least they say so
    Arun> publicly, though it hasn't happened yet, AFAIK.

    >> Nor is it a movement to suppress intellectual property - or
    >> else, within a few years, people would forget the original
    >> author of the program - and just think of it as "Written by
    >> GNU" as in "Produced by M$".  This is clearly false.
    >> 

    Arun> While it honors copyright, the GNU project is opposed to
    Arun> intellectual property and patenting. At least, that is my
    Arun> understanding.

    >> In fact, the GPL is an extremely powerful guard for
    >> intellectual property.  If it is free - there is NO incentive
    >> to rip it off / pirate it :) I've never seen warez / cracks of
    >> GPL products :)

    Arun> That's an innovative definiton of property!

    Arun> The general public opinion that I sense here is that Linux,
    Arun> a piece of GPL'ed software has been useful to all of you. It
    Arun> has been useful to me too. Therefore everything associated
    Arun> with it must be right. That's a flawed argument. I think
    Arun> Linux did a lot of things right. GPL is not one of them.

    Arun> All said and done, I believe that software license is a
    Arun> personal choice.  I don't whine with GPL authors to change
    Arun> their license. But I don't mind participating in rational
    Arun> discussion on the issue :)

    Arun> 	-Arun

    Arun> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Arun> For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists
    Arun> check out http://lists.linux-india.org/