Re: two good poems; Wether perl any good?

["Ambar Roy" <ambarroy@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

> I'm rather tired of this ``Do Java without thinking'' refrain I keep
> hearing all over the place.  Here're some facts which anyone who is
> planning to switch platforms should consider:
and i guess one should seriously evaluate all the available platforms, here
are some things that might be pro java, but this is a result of some
extensice research done by many ppl!

>
> 1.  Java is slow.  In fact, it's so horribly slow that running just a
> couple of Java apps can bring a high-end server to its knees.  And
> we're talking about serious RISC-based servers here, not piddly little
> Pentium-III PC's.
this is something which depends on the kind of jvm that you are using. Under
linux, if u use the sun jdk/jre w/o any jitc (which it doesn't come with by
default) then it is extremely slow. If you replace that with the IBM jvm or
jrockit or Blackdown, u can see a very big performence increase. I guess u
can check the volano benchmarks of jvm performence! And i can say this much
that with today's jvm/jre tech you can have workable java applications! Take
the case of Borland JBuilder. It is written completely in java, and it is
very usable on my celeron 366 with 128MB ram running win98!


> 2.  Java is a resource hog.  I've created similar pages in JSP (which
> allows you to embed Java into HTML pages) and Embperl (which allows
> you to embed Perl into HTML pages).  The Java version ate up all the
> RAM (256MB) on the system, while the Perl version was happily chugging
> away in 64MB or less.  Even more entertaining was the result of ab
> (the Apache benchmark, it's part of your Apache package) on the two
> pages: the Embperl page was about 10-20 times as fast as the JSP page.
This is something that depends on what servlet/jsp container you use. I
agree that with tomcat you can not scale jsp serving to any levels! embperl
is no resource hog, and so isn't php i guess. but with jsp u can get very
good designs and if written properly jsp gives very easy to maintain pages!
U will have to agree with me that to maintain perl/embperl pages is a
nightmare. Even experienced perl programmers have problems understanding
what is done. This is one big advantage of java, even when i didn't know
much java, just by reading the code i cud understand a lot of it. Java makes
for very maintainable code. Which is a big advantage when you are doing

> 3.  Java is not open.  Sun controls what goes into Java and sues
> anyone who doesn't conform.  As far as I can make out, the primary
> motivation for MS' bringing out C# was because Sun sued their pants
> off regarding their (MS') Java implementation, and they needed an
> alternative.  Of course, C# will be even more closed than Java, but
> that's another story.
> I would not bet my company's future on any product which is
> proprietary and owned by a single organisation.  Sun has scuttled
> efforts in the past to create an open Java consortium, and shows no
> signs of accepting the same today.
This might be a disadvantage of java, but with so many vendors supporting
java, it not that big a problem. Also i guess that not being open is in a
way good. You will not be having ppl like m$ trying to add features which
make msjava incompatible with java in general. And talking about ms tech..
try writting a vc app and see how difficult it is to support it in different
versions of windows! It is a real nightmare. Betting company's future on
proprietary products is something that is definately not the best thing. But
at least java is partially open and has very strong backers like sun and
ibm. And with the current momentum in java i don't think that java will
disappear anytime soon.


> 4.  Java isn't as portable as it seems.  For instance, the last time I
> tried to run the proof-of-concept Java Web Browser on a Linux box, I
> found to my dismay that it needed Winduhs-specific DLL's.  No Java Web
> Browser for Linux without system-specific libraries?  Where's the
> portability?
At least with Java 1.2.2 and above this is not a major issue anymore. Now
java is very portable. I have not found any significant problems with java
portablity anymore.  This is also to do with the developers writing java
code. I hav seen some good portable apps written in java.

> 5.  OOPS are highly overrated, at least as they're practised.  Most of
> the so-called OO programmers I've seen wouldn't know a well-written
> class if it came and hit them in the nose.  OOP implies reusability,
> while all today's OO programmers seem to be able to do is split up
> large functions into smaller ones in seperate files, thereby creating
> ``classes''.  Where's the re-usability? where's the documentation?
> where's the encapsulation? where's the facility for subclassing?
>
> Oh, I admit there're a lot of well-written classes available on the
> 'net for reuse -- for instance, the various JDBC drivers.  But if it's
> volume you're looking for, the CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archive
> Network) beats Java archives hollow: thousands of modules, most of
> them properly encapsulated and explicitly meant to be subclassed.
>
> In other words, OO is a skill, not a function of a programming
> language.  An OO programmer doesn't need Java or Perl or C++ to write
> OOPS in -- s/he's equally comfortable writing them in COBOL, C or even
> assembly.
This is a very debateable thing. I agree that if you don't use oop properly,
then it is as bad or worse than traditional programming models. But on the
other hand, if you do proper oo design and if u do things the right way
(which i guess only .01% of the oo programmers do) then oo is really good.
OO is definately not something that will make your products better and
development faster. But if done properly and if you have a good OO architect
who knows his job then oo is a great thing. With something like perl it is
just too easy to mess things up. Java being a simple language is very easy
to maintain. One really good thing about perl is the CPAN. That is something
that lacks in any other environment. And i think that this is something both
sun and ms should follow.


> To sum up, Java is a lot of hype and not much deliverable.  If you
> want a job in the US, sure go ahead and learn Java since it's the
> Flavour of the Day.  However, if you're serious about building systems
> which run, run fast and run without stopping, look beyond Java for a
> more open, more stable, more mature and more efficient.
java is a lot of hype sure, but it is also being used in a lot of places,
and even microsoft has copied the basic java model in their new .net
innitiative, and that just goes on to show how much of hype java is!! Java
has some serious advantages. and some disadvantages. Also one big advantage
of java is that it is a compiled language, unlike perl, where everything is
as source. Although java decompilers exist, it is at least better than
having to give your entire source code. The main advantages of java for web
development are that Java programmers are quie easy to find, and you can
very easily retrain c and c++ programmers to program in java. also being a
simple language java is real easy to maintain. The main disadvantage of java
was that it used to be slow, but with mordern jvms, that difference is much
smaller. And of course java is still a resource hog, but i guess with the
price of good programming talent being so high, the time saved with java can
pay for the better servers. And todays java web server tech is definately
the most scalable and reliable solution. The only solution that is as good
or better perhaps is one from m$. To make sites that can really scale up and
be reliable i guess the only pre packaged solution is java based, with
anything else u will hav to spend lots of time trying to reinvent some
wheels.

Bye,
    /\ |\/| |3 /\ r