From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 1 00:41:26 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1175380E9 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:41:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id AAA12766; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:36:37 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA07353; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id OAA52995; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:10:19 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03895; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:10:29 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14524.55165.222140.939251@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:10:29 +0530 (IST) To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Free software, proprietary software and Stalin In-Reply-To: References: <20000229232936.C29784@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/1 >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> [snip] Atul> It is entirely possible that with the changes that take Atul> place on an almost everyday basis, both GPL and BSD are not Atul> 100% with it anymore, and need to adapt to address some Atul> market realities. On the other hand, it is also possible that GPL /is/ 100% with it and doesn't need to adapt. Atul> [snip] Atul> One thing I can guarantee you - if everyone in the GPL/BSD Atul> camps refuses to adapt, and continue to stick to absolutes, Atul> both are going to start offending enough people to make them Atul> non-feasible. Nah, to misquote Marie Antoinette, ``Let the BSD'ers eat cake''. I'm not particularly bothered by the FUD, misrepresentations and deliberate misunderstandings coming out of that camp... looks like an MS all over again. Atul> If nothing else changes - at leats the people should have Atul> the courage to say "we agree to diagree". Discussions that Atul> end up in bloody noses on a mailing list are not going to Atul> change the end result. Hey, I have no problems with people disagreeing with me (in fact, I remember at least two people who survived a disagreement with me, albeit crippled for life). OTOH, it's a bit difficult to sit back and swallow some of the without gagging at least a little bit. Maybe Arun should just prefix each message subject with ``[TROLL]''? *Grinning, ducking and running* Atul> I'd rather like to see people discussing a "best of" kind of Atul> solution - one that takes the best features of each, and Atul> helps the creation of a universally acceptable solution. Have you considered the possibility that the GPL already has the features that many people want? Atul> How about it? A theoretical "Linux India General Licence"? Hmm, why don't you post one and then we'll have a month-long flamewar on which features it should and shouldn't include? ;-) Regards, -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 1 00:52:41 2000 Received: from exocore.com (d2-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C900938115 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 00:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03589 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:24:44 +0530 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:24:44 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Free software, proprietary software and Stalin In-Reply-To: <14524.55165.222140.939251@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/2 On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Raj Mathur wrote: > On the other hand, it is also possible that GPL /is/ 100% with it and > doesn't need to adapt. Hmmm, listen to yourself talk, man! > Have you considered the possibility that the GPL already has the > features that many people want? Yes, and I find that the assumption fails the acid test - too many people are arguing for change, or at least modernisation. I too subscribe to mailing lists and news groups. > > Atul> How about it? A theoretical "Linux India General Licence"? > > Hmm, why don't you post one and then we'll have a month-long flamewar > on which features it should and shouldn't include? ;-) OK, here goes: "Live and let live" There. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 1 09:04:31 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0F2380B8 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:04:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA31023 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:04:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:04:18 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Free software, proprietary software and Stalin Message-ID: <20000301090418.A30986@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <14524.55165.222140.939251@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 02:24:44PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/3 On Wed, Mar 01, 2000 at 02:24:44PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > Atul> How about it? A theoretical "Linux India General Licence"? > > > > Hmm, why don't you post one and then we'll have a month-long flamewar > > on which features it should and shouldn't include? ;-) > > OK, here goes: > > "Live and let live" > > There. Which one of the licenses discussed in this thread comes close to this principle is left as an exercise to the reader :-) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 1 16:00:39 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3532038063 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03028 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FQRPCU01.WK7 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:00:30 -0800 Message-ID: <38BDAF1E.CDA96B6A@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:00:30 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/4 Hi, Here is my small contribution to the heated debating that has been going on here. RMS seems to be stirring quite a few people in the Indian Linux scene with his visit / speeches. See the thread titled 'gnu versus linux' in the ILUG-C mailing list archive (http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/ilug-c/). I am curious to find out the opinions of people in this list on the naming debate. For the curious: I favor calling it Linux. Thaths -- "Be patient, son. A watched car never crashes." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 1 21:45:28 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4733380BB for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 21:45:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.21.166]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00286; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:13:44 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01056; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:17:33 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:17:33 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LI General Mailing List Cc: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Subject: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.4i Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/5 Thus spake Sudhakar Chandrasekharan >Here is my small contribution to the heated debating that has been going on >here. RMS seems to be stirring quite a few people in the Indian Linux >scene with his visit / speeches. [TROLL!!! TROLL!!!] :) RMS seems bent on totally GPL'ing Linux :) Both good and bad - lots of tools (say YAST for SuSe) are ~not~ GPL'd. According to RMS - even the LUGs should call themselves GNU-ILUGs before he will speak at their functions. Fine - Ilug-Hyderabad is now GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thanks mainly to Nikhil - our resident "Linux or Death" kernel h4x0r and game programmer) :) BTW - Atul, I showed him that article re "What the Linux community has to grok" you posted on LI-General a few days back. Suffice to say he was not too impressed (was rather foaming at the mouth) :) >For the curious: I favor calling it Linux. I vote for plain old Linux. Also, why does only Debian call itself GNU/Linux? Does RH prefer not to call itself that, or is it not qualified to call itself GNU/Linux? [Over to Manoj] :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- The world is coming to an end ... SAVE YOUR BUFFERS!!! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 00:06:54 2000 Received: from e33.esmtp.ibm.com (e33.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.131]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D1A380FF for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.132.206]) by e33.esmtp.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA62394 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:59:13 -0600 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (demiurge.in.ibm.com [9.184.199.132]) by westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with ESMTP id BAA231638 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:06:42 -0700 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D084058812; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:37:10 +0530 (IST) From: Syed Khader Vali MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14526.8494.720251.294242@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:37:10 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> References: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com X-Archive-Number: 200003/6 >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: Suresh> Fine - Ilug-Hyderabad is now GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thanks Suresh> mainly to Nikhil - our resident Suresh> "Linux or Death" kernel h4x0r and game programmer) :) I seriously fail to understand your intention of putting up his email ID here ?? And BTW ILUG-HYD is being changed to GNU-ILUG-HYD only for a brief moment ( in case you do not know ) and there are not making a fuss. This is just going to be for sometime ( I guess it has something to do with RMS ;-) Hyderabadi's are usually clever ( with an exception ;-) Suresh> BTW - Atul, I showed him that article re "What the Linux Suresh> community has to grok" you posted on LI-General a few days Suresh> back. Suffice to say he was not too impressed (was rather Suresh> foaming at the mouth) :) wondering why you posted this again here ?? Suresh> I vote for plain old Linux. Also, why does only Debian Suresh> call itself GNU/Linux? Does RH prefer not to call itself Suresh> that, or is it not qualified to call itself GNU/Linux? Good question to be posted on debian-users@lists.debian.org ! Not another war wanted :-) Suresh> [Over to Manoj] :) Well, in our 9th Class Hindi we had a non-detail By the name "Ek Aur Ek Gyarah" and you sound like *Khoobchand* from that novel. Find out more about Khoobchand ?? will ya ?? :-) - Khader -- ------------------------------------------------ @}----------------- Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) sid@sidcarter.com Debian 2.2 (frozen) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 00:40:23 2000 Received: from exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E273F38112 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07065 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:09:12 +0530 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:09:12 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/7 On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Fine - Ilug-Hyderabad is now GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thanks mainly to Nikhil > - our resident "Linux or Death" kernel h4x0r and > game programmer) :) Hmmm, is the gentleman aware of the fact that he can call it GNU-Hyderabad or ILUG-Hyderabad, but not GNU-ILUG-Hyderabad? What a brown-noser. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 00:58:32 2000 Received: from e33.esmtp.ibm.com (e33.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.131]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668F138111 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.132.206]) by e33.esmtp.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA33682 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 02:50:49 -0600 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (demiurge.in.ibm.com [9.184.199.132]) by westrelay03.boulder.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with ESMTP id BAA214398 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:58:18 -0700 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9423858812; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:28:47 +0530 (IST) From: Syed Khader Vali MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14526.11591.480783.206035@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:28:47 +0530 (IST) To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com X-Archive-Number: 200003/8 >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> Hmmm, is the gentleman aware of the fact that he can call it Atul> GNU-Hyderabad or ILUG-Hyderabad, but not GNU-ILUG-Hyderabad? And why would that be ?? Because we have no freedom ?? Cause Either you have to make it ILUG-Hyderabad or not be a part of ILUG ?? Ok fine let's put it this way, if you use GNU anywhere in your chapters name, you are not part of ILUG ?? Or Did I miss something ?? - Khader -- ------------------------------------------------ @}----------------- Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) sid@sidcarter.com Debian 2.2 (frozen) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 01:11:42 2000 Received: from exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2493811A for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07126 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:41:07 +0530 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:41:07 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <14526.11591.480783.206035@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/9 On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Syed Khader Vali wrote: > >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: > > Atul> Hmmm, is the gentleman aware of the fact that he can call it > Atul> GNU-Hyderabad or ILUG-Hyderabad, but not GNU-ILUG-Hyderabad? > > And why would that be ?? Because we have no freedom ?? > Cause Either you have to make it ILUG-Hyderabad or not be a part of ILUG ?? > Ok fine let's put it this way, if you use GNU anywhere in your chapters name, you are not part of ILUG ?? > Or Did I miss something ?? Yes, you did. We went through all this before with your abortive ILUG-Debian effort. Please refer to that thread in the archives. The gist of the discussion was: "ILUG" was coined to represent chapters of "Linux India", and the purpose was to promote unity and a sense of belonging. LI has not in any way endorsed a name change (refer back to Raj's note about this a while back) and in all likelyhood never will (not for anti-GNU reasons, but for pro-Linux reasons). Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 06:11:27 2000 Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1A038116 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from iisc.ernet.in (iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.3]) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA24784; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 19:42:22 +0530 Received: from ece.iisc.ernet.in (ece.iisc.ernet.in [144.16.64.2]) by iisc.ernet.in (8.9.2/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA32158; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:04:55 +0530 (IST) Received: from localhost by ece.iisc.ernet.in (SMI-8.6/SMI-4.1) id NAA21959; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:04:44 +0530 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:04:44 +0530 (GMT+05:30) From: Gopi Krishna S Garge X-Sender: gopi@ece To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: LI General Mailing List , Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/10 On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Fine - Ilug-Hyderabad is now GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thanks mainly to Nikhil Oh NO ! ... and did RMS bless GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thats a real mouthful ! ) with his melliflous sesquipedalians ? (...and this is another ... ;-) ) > - our resident "Linux or Death" kernel h4x0r and > game programmer) :) > To me, GNU/Linux seems to indicate a choice too ;-) Perhaps, Linux + GNU is better. Also, to me, GNU is omnipresent - it doesn't need mention. --Gopi From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 06:56:37 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5E93811D for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.235]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19069; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:24:24 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00718; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:28:09 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:28:09 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Gopi Krishna S Garge Cc: LI General Mailing List , Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000302202809.A709@kcircle.com> References: <20000302111733.A1051@kcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.4i In-Reply-To: ; from gopi@ece.iisc.ernet.in on Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 01:04:44PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/11 Thus spake Gopi Krishna S Garge: > Oh NO ! ... and did RMS bless GNU-Ilug-Hyderabad (thats a > real mouthful ! ) with his melliflous sesquipedalians ? > (...and this is another ... ;-) ) Not yet - its being planned ;) > To me, GNU/Linux seems to indicate a choice too ;-) Perhaps, > Linux + GNU is better. Also, to me, GNU is omnipresent - it > doesn't need mention. Right - but Debian seems to believe in declaring everything explicitly :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Nearly every complex solution to a programming problem that I have looked at carefully has turned out to be wrong. -- Brent Welch From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 08:17:47 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71D23811E for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.128]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11541; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:46:21 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01099; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:50:15 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:50:15 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LI General Cc: Syed Khader Vali Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.4i Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/12 Thus spake Syed Khader Vali: > I seriously fail to understand your intention of putting up his email ID > here ? Fine, you don't. So? >and there are not making a fuss. This is just going to be for sometime > ( I guess it has something to do with RMS ;-) I don't suppose so - RMS is here for keeps, LUGs are here for keeps and this debate is here for keeps. It's not all ~that~ temporary. >Hyderabadi's are usually clever ( with an exception ;-) That being you, Khader? Or are you a Bangalorean now? >Well, in our 9th Class Hindi we had a non-detail By the name "Ek Aur Ek Gyarah" > and you sound like *Khoobchand* >from that novel. Find out more about Khoobchand ?? will ya ?? :-) Well - I'm not so up to date on Hindi literature as you are - but ~you~ remind me of (who the hell was it? - ah yes ...) Uriah Heep. If you haven't read David Copperfield in class 9, then read it now. You want to carry on further flame wars / make further snide (or inane) remarks, do it offlist. Please. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program in than some that do. -- Dennis M. Ritchie From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 08:26:37 2000 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (pneumatic-tube.sgi.com [204.94.214.22]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078A33811E for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id IAA04489; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:29:38 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id IAA19932; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:26:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA68163; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:55:55 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20009; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:56:07 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:56:06 +0530 (IST) To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: LI General , Syed Khader Vali Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> References: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/13 >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: Suresh> [lots of good stuff snipped] Suresh> You want to carry on further flame wars / make further Suresh> snide (or inane) remarks, do it offlist. Please. No! How do we get our daily dose of fun then? ;-) -- Raju Suresh> -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India Suresh> r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org Suresh> http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- A Suresh> language that doesn't have everything is actually easier Suresh> to program in than some that do. -- Dennis M. Ritchie Suresh> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Suresh> LIG is all for free speech. But it was created for a Suresh> purpose - to help people discuss technical programming Suresh> related issues about Linux. If your messages are Suresh> counterproductive to this purpose, your privileges to Suresh> submit messages can and will be revoked. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 08:29:33 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4393811E for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.128]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19088; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:58:19 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01195; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:02:11 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:02:11 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Raj Mathur Cc: LI General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000302220211.A1189@kcircle.com> References: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.4i In-Reply-To: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com>; from raju@sgi.com on Thu, Mar 02, 2000 at 09:56:06PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/14 Thus spake Raj Mathur: >No! How do we get our daily dose of fun then? http://www.microsoft.com (specifically their press releases). Failing that - http://www.google.com/search?q=jokes -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Programmers do it bit by bit. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 18:47:50 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE34138120 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:47:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay ([203.197.180.216]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26232; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:05:30 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:44:00 +0530 To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Raj Mathur From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Cc: LI General In-Reply-To: <20000302220211.A1189@kcircle.com> References: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/15 At 10:02 PM 3/2/00 +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > >No! How do we get our daily dose of fun then? > >http://www.microsoft.com (specifically their press releases). Here is one such. Have fun...This time they are claiming to have "invented" symlinks, at least 30 years after it showed up in Multics (UNIX symlinks are modeled after these) >This is from http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/02-28w2k.asp > > Microsoft Research Innovations Enhance Windows 2000 > > REDMOND, Wash., Feb. 28, 2000 -- Three years ago, Bill Bolosky and > two Microsoft colleagues were brainstorming technology advances when > an idea occurred to them -- why not save operating system disk space > by storing duplicate files as links that point to a single file housed > in a central location? -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 19:06:39 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08033814C for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 19:06:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.28]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17699; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:35:25 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00797; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:39:20 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:39:20 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Udhay Shankar N Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Raj Mathur , LI General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000303083920.A794@kcircle.com> References: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302220211.A1189@kcircle.com> <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17>; from udhay@pobox.com on Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 07:44:00AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/16 Thus spake Udhay Shankar N: >Here is one such. Have fun...This time they are claiming to have "invented" >symlinks, at least 30 years after it showed up in Multics (UNIX symlinks >are modeled after these) Hahahahaha ...... I didn't realize I was ~that~ correct. Thanks, you made my day. --s-- >>This is from http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/02-28w2k.asp -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 20:59:19 2000 Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.103]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F55938163 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 20:59:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (northrelay03.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.23]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA229534 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:57:45 -0500 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (demiurge.in.ibm.com [9.184.199.132]) by northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with ESMTP id XAA237022 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:58:54 -0500 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A45C458812; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:29:29 +0530 (IST) From: Syed Khader Vali MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14527.18097.435147.762522@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:29:29 +0530 (IST) To: LI General Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> References: <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com X-Archive-Number: 200003/17 >>>>> "Suresh" == Suresh Ramasubramanian writes: Suresh> Fine, you don't. So? Fine ?? Ok. >> Hyderabadi's are usually clever ( with an exception ;-) Suresh> That being you, Khader? Or are you a Bangalorean now? Well, I never was a hyderabadi and never want to be one as a matter of fact. I like being myself and neither will I be a Bangalorean too :-) It depends on *junta* out there at Hyderabad :-) >> Well, in our 9th Class Hindi we had a non-detail By the name >> "Ek Aur Ek Gyarah" and you sound like *Khoobchand* from that >> novel. Find out more about Khoobchand ?? will ya ?? :-) Suresh> Well - I'm not so up to date on Hindi literature as you Suresh> are - but ~you~ remind me of (who the hell was it? - ah Suresh> yes ...) Uriah Heep. If you haven't read David Suresh> Copperfield in class 9, then read it now. Well, I am not the only one who thinks so :-) ( I have big following here ;-) Suresh> You want to carry on further flame wars / make further Suresh> snide (or inane) remarks, do it offlist. Please. Hmmmm, So till now all this stuff about GNU and BSD was peace war ?? Is it ?? And as Raj said It's been sometime since we had a good flame war :-) LOL - Khader -- ------------------------------------------------ @}----------------- Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) sid@sidcarter.com Debian 2.2 (frozen) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 21:59:43 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067063816B for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id VAA06569 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org>; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:36:19 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA73367 for <@relay.sgi.com:linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org>; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA84189 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:10:19 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27103; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:10:31 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14527.20558.467055.315728@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:10:30 +0530 (IST) To: LI General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17> References: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/18 Oooh, this is too hot! And it doesn't even look like symlinks, looks more like regular links to me (the sort that chkdsk used to complain about). I yield... Suresh and Khader, please feel free to take your flamewar offline as long as we keep getting nuggets like this regularly! -- Raju >>>>> "Udhay" == Udhay Shankar N writes: Udhay> Here is one such. Have fun...This time they are claiming to Udhay> have "invented" symlinks, at least 30 years after it showed Udhay> up in Multics (UNIX symlinks are modeled after these) >> This is from >> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/02-28w2k.asp >> >> Microsoft Research Innovations Enhance Windows 2000 >> >> REDMOND, Wash., Feb. 28, 2000 -- Three years ago, Bill Bolosky >> and two Microsoft colleagues were brainstorming technology >> advances when an idea occurred to them -- why not save >> operating system disk space by storing duplicate files as links >> that point to a single file housed in a central location? From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 22:14:25 2000 Received: from glaurung.green-gryphon.com (tiamat.ametro.net [209.102.145.185]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9202738159 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srivasta@localhost) by glaurung.green-gryphon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-6) id AAA19871; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:09:36 -0600 X-Mailer: emacs 20.5.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-7 I) X-Time: Fri Mar 3 00:09:35 2000 Mail-Copies-To: never To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish From: Manoj Srivastava X-URL: http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Organization: Manoj Srivastava's Home Date: 03 Mar 2000 00:09:35 -0600 Message-ID: <873dq8r3ds.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com> Lines: 42 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) Emacs/20.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/19 Hi, Yahoo has in interesting story about Miscrosofts implementation of kerberos. In a move that company detractors said is another sign of its infamous "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" strategy, Microsoft has used an open Internet security standard in its Windows 2000 operating system and made modifications without openly documenting its changes. Microsoft has incorporated open standard Kerberos security, which keeps user passwords from being sent over a network where they can be sniffed and stolen, into Windows 2000, making its marquee operating system (OS) more competitive with Unix. But in doing so, it has made changes to Kerberos - producing "Microsoft Kerberos, which is proprietary," said Ted Ts'o, who helped lead the development team on the network authentication protocol with others at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (web.mit.edu/kerberos/www) in the early 1990s. Get the full story at: The BSD bigots shall probably hate this, but had MIT kerberos been under the protection of the GPL, this would not have happened. Microsoft kerberos. Bah. manoj -- At first sight, the idea of any rules or principles being superimposed on the creative mind seems more likely to hinder than to help, but this is quite untrue in practice. disciplined thinking focuses inspiration rather than blinkers it. Glegg, The Design of Design Manoj Srivastava 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 23:07:02 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E5538208 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04748 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:07:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:06:59 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: LI General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000302230659.A4732@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302215015.A1093@kcircle.com> <14526.38430.850698.67522@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> <20000302220211.A1189@kcircle.com> <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000303074208.00b9a560@202.54.12.17>; from Udhay Shankar N on Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 07:44:00AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/20 On Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 07:44:00AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > At 10:02 PM 3/2/00 +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > > > >No! How do we get our daily dose of fun then? > > > >http://www.microsoft.com (specifically their press releases). > > > Here is one such. Have fun...This time they are claiming to have "invented" > symlinks, at least 30 years after it showed up in Multics (UNIX symlinks > are modeled after these) The thing that's new in MS implementation is the duplication of data is automatically detected. They must be computing checksums on each file and keeping the checksums on all the files in a hash table or something. New files will be looked up in the hash table to see if they already exist and if so, a hard link would be created. The tradeoff between the new functionality and the complexity introduced into the OS is questionable to say the least. I'd rather have such functionality implemented at the app level - in a mail server(MTA) for example rather than the OS doing it for me. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 2 23:19:24 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855C9381BD for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04790 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:19:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:19:21 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish Message-ID: <20000302231921.B4732@sharmas.dhs.org> References: <873dq8r3ds.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <873dq8r3ds.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com>; from Manoj Srivastava on Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 12:09:35AM -0600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/21 On Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 12:09:35AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > > The BSD bigots shall probably hate this, but had MIT kerberos been > under the protection of the GPL, this would not have happened. > > Microsoft kerberos. Bah. Another troll huh ? GPL can only "protect" code, not ideas [1] Microsoft will still be "free" to implement their own kerberos extensions. Do you have any evidence to suggest that Microsoft used MIT code ? -Arun [1] Unless RMS starts a pool of GPL'ed patents, which he will refuse to license to any commercial software company. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 00:53:01 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E1C380AF for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 00:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.21.62]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17316; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:21:36 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00778; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:25:30 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:25:30 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LI General Cc: Udhay Shanker Subject: From a friend at M$ [RE: Win2K claims to have invented symlinks :)] Message-ID: <20000303142530.A769@kcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/22 From a friend at Microsoft, Redmond :) ----- Forwarded message ----- I just love the junk we sometimes put out. Nothing's quite topped the TechNet article that began with "Have you ever wanted to spam? Outlook 98 makes it easy." Hell, the best I could come up with as an answer to this one would be the reparse points that lets you put files in offline storage while leaving references on the disk but that concept wasn't even invented here. ----------------------------------------- -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- MAC user's dynamic debugging list evaluator? Never heard of that. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 01:20:14 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C28380AF for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 01:20:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.21.62]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10057 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:48:27 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00928 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:52:22 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:52:22 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: LI General Subject: Re: Re: Linux versus GNU/Linux... Message-ID: <20000303145222.A921@kcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/23 Thus spake Syed Khader Vali: >Well, I never was a hyderabadi and never want to be one as a matter of fact. >I like being myself and neither will I be a Bangalorean too :-) Ah well, .... na ghar ka, na ghaat ka. >It depends on *junta* out there at Hyderabad :-) So leave it to the junta in Hyderabad. >Well, I am not the only one who thinks so :-) ( I have big following here ;-) You speak for yourself, and let your supporters / followers post to LI and speak for themselves. >Hmmmm, So till now all this stuff about GNU and BSD was peace war ?? Is it ?? >And as Raj said It's been sometime since we had a good flame war :-) Notice the difference - Raj etc don't get down to personal abuse. You are doing just that. [sorry for this post - I've taken it offlist after this. Keep it offlist if you want to mail me further Khader - am not interested in filtering any part of LI] -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Algol-60 surely must be regarded as the most important programming language yet developed. -- T. Cheatham From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 04:21:58 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69297380AF for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 04:21:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.21.19]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01579; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:50:19 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00826; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:54:12 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 17:54:12 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Cc: Arun Sharma Subject: Re: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish Message-ID: <20000303175412.A823@kcircle.com> References: <200003031212.RAA23775@hd2.dot.net.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i In-Reply-To: <873dq8r3ds.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com>; from Manoj Srivastava on Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 12:09:35AM -0600 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/24 Thus spake Arun Sharma: >Another troll huh ? GPL can only "protect" code, not ideas [1] >Microsoft will still be "free" to implement their own kerberos extensions. Right - but M$ is rather noted for this kind of thing. The last I heard, they'd tried to trademark "D.N.S" as it was the abbreviation of something new (or lifted, who knows ) they were introducing. Another [OT] example - Verio (a HUGE webhost and ISP - verio.net) tried to trademark "whois" (!) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- This is an IBM Manual scroll.--More-- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 09:16:57 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2C723815E for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:16:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06056 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:16:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:16:47 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Indecent perl ? Message-ID: <20000303091647.A6050@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200003/25 Another "interesting" article. http://www.ora.com/news/prescod_0300.html I think the attack on perl was unnecessary. But the point of a magazine article is not be 100% fair all the time. Creation of a little bit of ...excitement doesn't hurt :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 09:28:52 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3478638189 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:28:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.95]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28858; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:57:37 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01259; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:01:34 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:01:34 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Indecent perl ? Message-ID: <20000303230134.A1207@kcircle.com> References: <20000303091647.A6050@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i In-Reply-To: <20000303091647.A6050@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Fri, Mar 03, 2000 at 09:16:47AM -0800 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/26 Thus spake Arun Sharma: >http://www.ora.com/news/prescod_0300.html >I think the attack on perl was unnecessary. But the point of a magazine >article is not be 100% fair all the time. Creation of a little bit of He does have quite a few points though. Most of what's around is heavily C and C++ oriented, and ~is~ arcane when it comes to readablity. It's not that easy to grok for a newbie, which is why said newbies unanimously ditch PERL and go into ASP :) Someone from a totally 'doze (and especially BASIC, rather than C) background like the author would have a substantially harder time understanding PERL. It's a matter of taste. Another thing is that code these days is more often than not coded by A, maintained by B and C, and debugged by X, Y and Z. Short time schedules make RAD tools necessary (I hate them though). I have yet to see a RAD tool for PERL, and I don't feel up to debugging somebody else's PERL code. Yet another reason for something easily readable (like say ASP) being popular. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found the conditions that make it fail. -- Jerry Ogdin From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 20:22:02 2000 Received: from exocore.com (d2-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6760938230 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from exocore.com (IDENT:achitnis@thinkpad.exocore.com [192.168.1.20]) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11232; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 09:49:56 +0530 Message-ID: <38C08EEE.21509C59@exocore.com> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 09:49:58 +0530 From: Atul Chitnis Organization: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: osOpinion: Tech Opinion commentary for the people, by the people. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/27 An article by someone whom many of us saw frantically recreating his lost Perl presentation at the Linux India stall during the Bang!inux event. Like many of us, he questions SCO's presence at the event. http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/SimonCozens/SimonCozens1.html Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 3 22:35:00 2000 Received: from exocore.com (d2-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3390E38184 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11386; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 12:04:20 +0530 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 12:04:20 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: [NON-COMMERCIAL] Reporter required Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/28 All: Linux.com had appointed a reporter for India last year. The duties were supposed to be to report on all happenings on the Indian Linux scenario and especially the iLUGs. Unfortunately, no reports have been forthcoming from that side, so Linux.COM has asked me whether there is anyone else who could act as the official Linux.COM reporter. Some preconditions to make such a person acceptable to both Linux India and Linux.com: 1. Should be actively involved with Linux. 2. Should be actively involved with activities of Linux India. 3. Must be willing to interact with all the iLUGs across India. 4. Should have good command over the English language 5. Should be willing to spend some time every week to put together a report for Linux.com 6. Should be unbiased and non-political - this is a responsible reporter position, *not* an ideology advocate or "other-OS" basher position. "Masala" writers need not apply. 7. Previous writing experience would be nice. The pay is in US Dollars, and is based on India's contribution to modern mathematics - $0. ;-) The only real payoff is that you would be doing something to help spread the word about Linux in India around the globe. To sweeten (??? ;-) the deal - the same person will automatically be responsible for the upcoming news section of linux-india.org. If you are interested, give a private e-mail holler, including URLs to sample reports/articles you may have written (if available). Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 4 04:59:52 2000 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (pneumatic-tube.sgi.com [204.94.214.22]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F2C380FC for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (fddi-nodin.corp.sgi.com [198.29.75.193]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id FAA02766 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org>; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 05:02:54 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id EAA26725 for <@relay.sgi.com:linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org>; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA09253 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:29:14 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14471; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:27:57 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14529.2132.555993.883624@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:27:56 +0530 (IST) To: linux-delhi@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: SGI and SuSE to Bring High-Availability Functionality to Linux X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/29 This is the best news I have heard all day: http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/february/suse.html From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 4 05:38:29 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAC738175 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 05:38:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.59]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09985; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:07:12 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00653; Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:11:09 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 19:11:09 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Raj Mathur Cc: LI General Subject: Re: SGI and SuSE to Bring High-Availability Functionality to Linux Message-ID: <20000304191109.A645@kcircle.com> References: <14529.2132.555993.883624@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.1.7i In-Reply-To: <14529.2132.555993.883624@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com>; from raju@sgi.com on Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 06:27:56PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/30 Thus spake Raj Mathur: >This is the best news I have heard all day: > http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2000/february/suse.html Lovely. Linux becomes even more scaleable and fail safe, and what's more, can now get into really high end / mission critical servers. SunOS watch out :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- You had mail. The BOFH dev/nulled it, so ask him what it said. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 4 18:09:32 2000 Message-ID: <38C1C1D4.A2AE501B@sharmas.dhs.org> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 18:09:24 -0800 From: Arun Sharma X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Appeasement ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/31 https://www.redhat.com/commerce/more_rh_rms.html We're just as free as debian! Note the skillful use of GNU+Linux to sidestep the controversy. Not so subtle attempt to appease all the flaming stallmanites, who also crank out code with equal passion ? Attempt to kick out KDE in favor of Gnome ? or ? -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 04:09:47 2000 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:50:07 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: thaths@aunet.org Cc: Linux India General Subject: Majordomo 2.0 swallowing User-Agent? Message-ID: <20000305175007.A7304@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: thaths@aunet.org, Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/32 Hi, I noticed that Majordomo 2.0 is swallowing up the "User-Agent" header. Is this deliberately introduced, and if so, what's the reason? -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - CLIMBERS do it on rope From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 04:15:56 2000 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:48:30 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Cc: Thaths , Mrinal Kalakrishnan Subject: Re: Majordomo 2.0 swallowing User-Agent? Message-ID: <20000305174830.A860@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General , Thaths , Mrinal Kalakrishnan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000305175007.A7304@india.com>; from mrinal@india.com on Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 05:50:07PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/33 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LI that: >I noticed that Majordomo 2.0 is swallowing up the "User-Agent" header. >Is this deliberately introduced, and if so, what's the reason? This is a default characteristic of ListServ, and Majordomo 2 seems to be a shameless copy of ListServ (even the list management syntax etc are same). User-Agent is not the only swallowed header - all the Received: lines from your server to the LI server are also missing. That is, if someone spams the list, we can't trace him by reading headers. Thaths has to grep his logs. Bad scene, that. Fix it willya, Thaths? -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 04:18:18 2000 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 17:51:00 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Majordomo 2.0 swallowing User-Agent? Message-ID: <20000305175100.A912@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000305174830.A860@kcircle.com>; from r.suresh@mailandnews.com on Sun, Mar 05, 2000 at 05:48:30PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/34 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LI that: >>I noticed that Majordomo 2.0 is swallowing up the "User-Agent" header. >>Is this deliberately introduced, and if so, what's the reason? This is a default characteristic of ListServ, and Majordomo 2 seems to be a shameless copy of ListServ (even the list management syntax etc are same). User-Agent is not the only swallowed header - all the Received: lines from your server to the LI server are also missing. That is, if someone spams the list, we can't trace him by reading headers. Thaths has to grep his logs. Bad scene, that. Fix it willya, Thaths? -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 05:30:53 2000 Message-ID: <38C15C1D.8757BF3E@satyam.net.in> Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 18:55:25 +0000 From: Shanker Reply-To: shanu@vsnl.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.3.42 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ilug-cochin@egroups.cm Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: ilug-cochin minutes for February 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/35 Date: Sunday 20th February 2000 Duration: 2 PM - 4:30 PM Venue: Professional Services, Broadway Agenda: Software RAID overview (Shanker Balan) An update on GNU/Hurd development by (Anoop) Attendance: 12 -- MINUTES -- The meeting began with the usual introduction by all present after which i began speaking about the software RAID capabilities of Linux enumerating the pros and cons of the various RAID levels. Anoop then briefed us about GNU/Hurd which he has been using for some time now and gave us an insight into the world of "micro" kernel architecture. The attendees were briefed on the upcoming Bang!Linux followed by a quick Q&A session after which we split. The low turnout was largely attributed to semester exams at both Cochin University and Model Engg. College. Shanker Balan, ilug-cochin From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 19:24:27 2000 Message-ID: <000201bf871a$ac4ead40$af3236ca@default> From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "Linux India General" Subject: Re: Indecent perl ? Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 09:46:46 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Archive-Number: 200003/36 I am from windoz background and love basic (qbasic ) because it is simple and gives full control over the ram and ports. But when I switched to linux about 2 year back, I was very much impressed by perl and decided it to be my mouther tounge. After 2 years ( not explored even 25% of perl modules ) I do not regret the choice of perl. I have made a few applications of industrial data logging in perl also. Best Regards, M.S.Deshmukh, Director. Beta Computronics Pvt. Ltd. Web Site - http://betacomp.com -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Date: Friday, March 03, 2000 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [LIG] Indecent perl ? > >Someone from a totally 'doze (and especially BASIC, rather than C) >background like the author would have a substantially harder time >understanding PERL. It's a matter of taste. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 21:31:24 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503F03807C for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.59]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA03830; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:00:05 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00811; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:13:33 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:13:33 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Mukund Deshmukh Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Indecent perl ? Message-ID: <20000306091333.A807@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Mukund Deshmukh , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000201bf871a$ac4ead40$af3236ca@default>; from betacomp@nagpur.dot.net.in on Sat, Mar 04, 2000 at 09:46:46AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/37 Mukund Deshmukh saw fit to inform me that: >I am from windoz background and love basic (qbasic ) because it is simple >and gives full control over the ram and ports. Never denied it :) However, the learning curve for a basic programmer (even one who peeks and pokes) migrating to PERL is far higher than, say, that of a C programmer. That was my only point. >After 2 years ( not explored even 25% of perl modules ) I do not regret the >choice of perl. -- Never underestimate the power of PERL (Larry Wall) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- How can you work when the system's so crowded? From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 22:39:32 2000 Received: from iimk.ren.nic.in (unknown [164.100.247.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E627A3805A for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by iimk.ren.nic.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13028; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:23:33 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: iimk.ren.nic.in: nobody set sender to nikk using -f From: "Nikhil Datta" To: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 05:53:33 +0000 (GMT) Organization: IIM, Kozhikode User X-Mailer: ObsidianSystems-OcsEmail1-0-28p1 brewed at www.obsidian.co.za Reply-To: nikhild@usa.net Message-ID: <95232201313024-06112313024nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Subject: mail from linux server to hotmail bouncing.. X-Archive-Number: 200003/38 I'm having a slightly strange problem, *only some* mail that is being sent from my domain to hotmail addresses is bounciong with a 'servicie unavailable' address. Why should this be happeneing? My domain resolves correctly from any where on the internet. nikk Intuition, however illogical, is recognized as a command prerogative. -- Kirk, "Obsession", stardate 3620.7 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 22:46:09 2000 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (pneumatic-tube.sgi.com [204.94.214.22]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745A03834E for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id WAA02635; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:49:21 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA36295; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id MAA97209; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:15:42 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06497; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:15:55 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14531.21539.426590.781386@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:15:55 +0530 (IST) To: nikhild@usa.net Cc: Subject: mail from linux server to hotmail bouncing.. In-Reply-To: <95232201313024-06112313024nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/39 In my experience, whenever facing a problem with Hotmail, blame Hotmail first. >>>>> "Nikhil" == Nikhil Datta writes: Nikhil> I'm having a slightly strange problem, *only some* mail Nikhil> that is being sent from my domain to hotmail addresses is Nikhil> bounciong with a 'servicie unavailable' address. Why Nikhil> should this be happeneing? My domain resolves correctly Nikhil> from any where on the internet. nikk From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 22:48:48 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150AD38305 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay ([202.54.37.115]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28686; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:06:28 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000306121550.009783d0@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:17:56 +0530 To: nikhild@usa.net, From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: mail from linux server to hotmail bouncing.. In-Reply-To: <95232201313024-06112313024nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/40 At 05:53 AM 3/6/00 +0000, Nikhil Datta wrote: >I'm having a slightly strange problem, *only some* mail that is being sent >from my domain to hotmail addresses is bounciong with a 'servicie >unavailable' address. Why should this be happeneing? My domain resolves >correctly from any where on the internet. Which domain would this be ? Is it, by any chance, on the RBL ? Else, you can just probably blame it on the poor maintenance at hotmail of late. Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 22:56:13 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093C8382E3 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14482 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:56:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:56:07 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Bang!inux report Message-ID: <20000305225607.A14307@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200003/41 I was reading: http://www.geocities.com/vijoc/linux/banglinux.html (Did someone post this on LI too ? Some parts of it sound familiar). > Afterwards, Dr.Mishra of Digital came up with a presentation on High > Performance computing with AlphaLinux which also turned out to be > more of marketing presentation for digital's products! He emphasized > the power of compilers from digital, as though no one in the crowd > was aware of a beast called "gcc"! He made it a point to compare > digital's compiler with only VC++ and leave gcc alone :-) Worst of > all, the presentation was made on powerpoint(TM) and he blamed it all > on StarOffice. The author clearly has no idea about the relative performance on gcc and Compaq C compiler on Alpha. This is not a comment on the code quality of gcc (which is pretty good) - but just the lack of some feature. A 100 thousand programmers don't have access to Alpha boxes, which leads to this situation. > The main attraction of the day and of the conference followed- the much > awaited talk by Richard Stallman. He spoke on the history and philosophy > of Open Source. It ended by one listener calling him an evolutionary. At > the end of the talk he sang the GNU song and introduced his alter ego. I wish RMS talked more about code - documenting gcc internals would be a great use of his time. Reminds me of the "shut up and code" article I read somewhere. Those of you interested in hearing the song: http://www.jwz.org/why-cooperation-with-rms-is-impossible.mp3 [ the one on gnu.org is .au and is ~ 4 times as large ] -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 23:04:39 2000 Received: from exocore.com (d2-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBD43833A for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:03:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15450 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:32:24 +0530 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:32:23 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: mail from linux server to hotmail bouncing.. In-Reply-To: <95232201313024-06112313024nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/42 On Mon, 6 Mar 2000, Nikhil Datta wrote: > I'm having a slightly strange problem, *only some* mail that is being > sent from my domain to hotmail addresses is bounciong with a 'servicie > unavailable' address. Why should this be happeneing? My domain > resolves correctly from any where on the internet. Nothing unusual - this has been happening to us and lots of others, too, for the past couple of months. The "service unavailable" part seems to be related to a busy state by the hotmail servers, and has nothing to do with the originating domain, because if I resend the same message once or twice, the message goes through. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 5 23:48:07 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E971038053 for ; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14626; Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:48:01 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 23:48:01 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Cc: sathya@intellinux.com Subject: Re: [LIH] Zope! Message-ID: <20000305234801.B14253@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <00030600283806.18489@ns1.intellinux.com>; from Sathya Rangaswamy on Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 12:25:40AM -0600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/43 On Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 12:25:40AM -0600, Sathya Rangaswamy wrote: > On Sun, 05 Mar 2000, you wrote: > > >>>>> "Raj" == Raj Mathur writes: > > > > Raj> Anyone have a quick link to the Zope license? I tried > I can tell you that it is a DFSG-Free > > License ( Debain Free Software Guidelines - Free ). > Its a variation on the GPL and called ZPL. Its free as in Linux. some non > innoucous variations include "please give Zope credit " (its not mandatory) > the rest is pretty much the same as in you have to make modifications to the > Zope source freely available etc You've probably missed out on the license wars on LIG. Read the archives :-) ZPL is more of a variation of the BSD license, with some elements from MPL (Mozilla public license) but contains less legalese than MPL. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 00:04:01 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE373807C for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:03:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay ([202.54.37.115]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02826; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:21:38 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000306133147.0097af10@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 13:32:58 +0530 To: Arun Sharma , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Re: [LIH] Zope! Cc: sathya@intellinux.com In-Reply-To: <20000305234801.B14253@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/44 At 11:48 PM 3/5/00 -0800, Arun Sharma wrote: >ZPL is more of a variation of the BSD license, with some elements from >MPL (Mozilla public license) but contains less legalese than MPL. I remember the flamewars on netscape.public.mozilla.general when the MPL was unveiled. Jamie Zawinski said something on the lines of "we need to give our lawyers some work to do" as an explanation...:) Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 00:13:00 2000 Received: from iimk.ren.nic.in (iimk.ren.nic.in [164.100.247.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3307138181 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:09:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by iimk.ren.nic.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18464; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 12:54:38 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: iimk.ren.nic.in: nobody set sender to nikk using -f From: "Nikhil Datta" To: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 07:24:38 +0000 (GMT) Organization: IIM, Kozhikode User X-Mailer: ObsidianSystems-OcsEmail1-0-28p1 brewed at www.obsidian.co.za Reply-To: nikhild@usa.net Message-ID: <95232747818460-06125418460nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Subject: apologies.. X-Archive-Number: 200003/45 *cowering* sorry for posting to linux-india-general, that was supposed to go to linux-india. My mistake. at least I did'nt get flamed ;) nikk But Captain -- the engines can't take this much longer! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 00:14:10 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DE538220 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id AAA21286; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:09:33 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id AAA46530; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 00:13:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id NAA23486; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:43:00 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07426; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:43:13 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14531.26777.318596.4436@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 13:43:13 +0530 (IST) To: Arun Sharma Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, sathya@intellinux.com Subject: Re: [LIH] Zope! In-Reply-To: <20000305234801.B14253@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/46 Right observation, wrong reason :-) I wanted to ensure it was a free software license (e.g. GPL, FreeBSD, Artistic) and not some apology like Community Source crap. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Arun" == Arun Sharma writes: Arun> On Mon, Mar 06, 2000 at 12:25:40AM -0600, Sathya Rangaswamy Arun> wrote: >> On Sun, 05 Mar 2000, you wrote: > >>>>> "Raj" == Raj Mathur >> writes: > > Raj> Anyone have a quick link to the >> Zope license? I tried I can tell you that it is a DFSG-Free > >> License ( Debain Free Software Guidelines - Free ). Its a >> variation on the GPL and called ZPL. Its free as in Linux. some >> non innoucous variations include "please give Zope credit " >> (its not mandatory) the rest is pretty much the same as in you >> have to make modifications to the Zope source freely available >> etc Arun> You've probably missed out on the license wars on LIG. Read Arun> the archives :-) Arun> ZPL is more of a variation of the BSD license, with some Arun> elements from MPL (Mozilla public license) but contains less Arun> legalese than MPL. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 09:50:37 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 231D238053 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07335 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FR0HJZ00.7MY for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:50:23 -0800 Message-ID: <38C3EFDF.7F6D8536@netscape.com> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 09:50:23 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Bang!inux report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/47 Arun Sharma proclaimed: > http://www.jwz.org/why-cooperation-with-rms-is-impossible.mp3 You should also listen to the remixed funky version. Let me try to grep the web for it. ;-) Thaths -- "Be patient, son. A watched car never crashes." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 19:50:35 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8793938053 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:50:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17562 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:50:24 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:50:24 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Message-ID: <20000306195024.A17554@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200003/48 http://www.devshed.com/Talk/BrainDump/OS_YNot/ Says most of what I've been trying to say on this list. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 20:10:04 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC8E38053 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id UAA26167; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:05:19 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id UAA99091; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id JAA37472; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:38:44 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18459; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:38:57 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14532.32985.369406.254656@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:38:57 +0530 (IST) To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Subject: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not In-Reply-To: <20000306195024.A17554@sharmas.dhs.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/49 Another one who doesn't understand the first thing about the rapidly-growing community and the philosophy behind free software. Does Mr Beste really think that anyone cares that IBM hasn't released the source code for AIX when there are equally good or better products going around? As for the software corporations going broke because their open source products will be ``pirated'' (haahaa!), no one is forcing anyone to start or continue a software corporation. To paraphrase, if you choose to stand on the street corner and sell air, and go out of business because air is free, identify the idiot in the picture :-) Beste makes his points compellingly with enough data to back them up, but he (and many others) just don't understand the first thing about the free software movement. Releasing the source to a software may never make money for a company, but who cares? That's not the reason to release the source, as many people (including Beste) appear to think. You don't make free software because you want to make money out of it directly. You make free software because you cannot help coding, and you know there is a better way to do it (whatever ``it'' is), you have the confidence in yourself to do it, and you can look beyond your own little interests and think about others enough to not hoard. Free software will rule (rules?) the world not because people are making money out of it (they will, but that's not the point) but because free is the only way for software to be in the long term. Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Arun" == Arun Sharma writes: Arun> http://www.devshed.com/Talk/BrainDump/OS_YNot/ Says most of Arun> what I've been trying to say on this list. Arun> -Arun Arun> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Arun> The LIG mailing list archives are available at: Arun> http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 21:01:42 2000 Received: from svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (unknown [206.103.11.137]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31E243804E for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:01:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from iname.com ([172.18.10.102]) by svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) with SMTP id 6525689B.001BCFCF; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:33:51 +0530 Message-ID: <38C48D6A.82C7A995@iname.com> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:32:34 +0530 From: Robin Chatterjee Organization: Tata Consultancy Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/50 "They will" is a questionable statement I feel. And practically speaking any business will only look at going open source if there is a business advantage in doing so - businesses are not motivated by the urge to code - people are motivated by the urge to code. Businesses are motivated by the idea that they can stop maintaining a non revenue earning product by asking some chump with nothing to do to take over the work. By the way is redhat according to you then standing on the street corner and trying to sell air ? To paraphrase, if you choose to stand on the street corner and sell air, and go out of business because air is free, identify the idiot in the picture :-) does that make redhat,suse slakware mandrake etc etc idiots ? Discussion appreciated. Cheerio Robin > > Free software will rule (rules?) the world not because people are > making money out of it (they will, but that's not the point) but > because free is the only way for software to be in the long term. > > Regards, > > -- Raju > > >>>>> "Arun" == Arun Sharma writes: > > Arun> http://www.devshed.com/Talk/BrainDump/OS_YNot/ Says most of > Arun> what I've been trying to say on this list. > > Arun> -Arun > > Arun> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Arun> The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > Arun> http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > LIG is all for free speech. But it was created for a purpose - to > discuss general issues about Linux. If your messages are > counterproductive to this purpose, your privileges to submit > messages can and will be revoked. -- _END_ Robin S Chatterjee Yahoo pager ID -Robinchatterjee mailto:robinsc@iname.com mailto:robins_chatterjee@tcscal.co.in FAX 1-(815)550-6171 Robin's Poetry Pages http://www.geocities.com/singerosongs Robin's Perl Pages http://www.geocities.com/robinchatterjee From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 21:34:54 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F6338145 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17799 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:34:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:34:44 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Message-ID: <20000306213444.A17677@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <14532.32985.369406.254656@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com>; from Raj Mathur on Tue, Mar 07, 2000 at 09:38:57AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/51 On Tue, Mar 07, 2000 at 09:38:57AM +0530, Raj Mathur wrote: > Another one who doesn't understand the first thing about the > rapidly-growing community and the philosophy behind free software. In other words, he just doesn't "Get it" TM :-) > Does Mr Beste really think that anyone cares that IBM hasn't released > the source code for AIX when there are equally good or better products > going around? As for the software corporations going broke because > their open source products will be ``pirated'' (haahaa!), no one > is forcing anyone to start or continue a software corporation. > To paraphrase, if you choose to stand on the street corner and sell > air, and go out of business because air is free, identify the idiot > in the picture :-) The point is, IBM is not complaining that they're not making money off of JFS by open sourcing it. They're just trading something that isn't bringing them any revenue for some good will. So they're actually happy. The problem is with open source advocates going all over the place and saying - product foo should be open source, because that's so much better. > Beste makes his points compellingly with enough data to back them up, > but he (and many others) just don't understand the first thing about > the free software movement. Releasing the source to a software may > never make money for a company, but who cares? He's not talking about free software movement. He's talking about the people who go and try to tell corporations which have invested money into developing software to release it under open source. It's just a coincidence that these advocates happen to belong to the free software movement :-) -Arun PS: Linus Torvalds doesn't hold the view that everything in the world should be automatically open sourced, but he uses GPL for other reasons. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 21:59:12 2000 Received: from giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (giasbg01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.17]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15F638053 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 21:59:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux.sankyasys (IDENT:root@PPP-177-29.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.177.29]) by giasbg01.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02799 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:31:05 +0500 (GMT+0500) Received: (from kala@localhost) by linux.sankyasys (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA01712 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:26:48 +0530 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:26:48 +0530 From: Babu Kalakrishnan To: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Message-ID: <20000307112648.A1436@linux.sankyasys> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3us In-Reply-To: <14532.32985.369406.254656@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> X-Operating-System: Linux - Red Hat 6.1 (PCQ) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 Organization: Sankya Systems & Objects (P) Ltd., Bangalore, India X-Archive-Number: 200003/52 On Tue, Mar 07, 2000 at 09:38:57AM +0530, Raj Mathur typed: > > Beste makes his points compellingly with enough data to back them up, > but he (and many others) just don't understand the first thing about > the free software movement. The above seems to be the supreme argument I've been seeing over and over again in the GPL vs XYZ debates.. People who do't endorse GPL do so because they don't "understand" it - whereas the GPL proponents fully "understand" the points of view of others and have decided very "rationally" that there can be nothing better than GPL on this earth :) > Releasing the source to a software may never make money for a company, > but who cares? Well a lot of people may care .. And why can't you let them be ? Why force your philosophy down "everyone"'s throat ? > Free software will rule (rules?) the world not because people are > making money out of it (they will, but that's not the point) but > because free is the only way for software to be in the long term. > Time will tell.. Kala From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 6 22:13:40 2000 Received: from exocore.com (d2-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B8E3808A for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2000 22:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01161 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:45:27 +0530 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:45:27 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not In-Reply-To: <14532.32985.369406.254656@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/53 Hey, I have a *fabulous* idea! How about renaming this list to "dismissive-replies-to-any-alternate-point-of-view@lists.linux-india.org"? Given the way everyone jumps on anyone who may have a different opinion and starts writing insultingly dismissive messages, it would be *so* apt. Anyone dropping in to read what's being "discussed" here will go away (yes, they will) bearing the impression that Micro$oft is right - Linux guys are fanatics, out of touch with reality, narrow-minded, unbending, non-cooperative and unprofessional trouble makers. Some of the messages I have seen here are clearly argumentative for the sake of arguing, and because flaming people for their PoVs is "so much fun". May I remind both sides of these "arguments" (which in most case aren't - they are "I am right and you are wrong" monologues - go read the archives to get the big picture) that most of what is being discussed here has ZERO Linux content, and that this is a *LINUX* list? Thaths - please set up a separate list for war-monging of this sort, and let's get back to discussing *LINUX* on this list. In the future, I would like to see *LINUX* related messages here - especially Linux in India. Thanks. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 18:08:31 2000 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (pneumatic-tube.sgi.com [204.94.214.22]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E1338050 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id SAA07104; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:11:27 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id SAA49864; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id HAA48089; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:37:42 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00900; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:37:58 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14533.46589.946110.837944@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:37:57 +0530 (IST) To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/54 Hi Atul, Frankly, I fail completely to see what the original message had to do with Linux. I just go along with the flow... if Arun feels it's OK to post messages giving alternative points of view to GNU, then I too have no compunctions in responding in the list itself. Maybe we need to work out a charter for this list and stick to it? Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> Hey, I have a *fabulous* idea! How about renaming this list Atul> to Atul> "dismissive-replies-to-any-alternate-point-of-view@lists.linux-india.org"? Atul> Given the way everyone jumps on anyone who may have a Atul> different opinion and starts writing insultingly dismissive Atul> messages, it would be *so* apt. Atul> Anyone dropping in to read what's being "discussed" here Atul> will go away (yes, they will) bearing the impression that Atul> Micro$oft is right - Linux guys are fanatics, out of touch Atul> with reality, narrow-minded, unbending, non-cooperative and Atul> unprofessional trouble makers. Atul> Some of the messages I have seen here are clearly Atul> argumentative for the sake of arguing, and because flaming Atul> people for their PoVs is "so much fun". Atul> May I remind both sides of these "arguments" (which in most Atul> case aren't - they are "I am right and you are wrong" Atul> monologues - go read the archives to get the big picture) Atul> that most of what is being discussed here has ZERO Linux Atul> content, and that this is a *LINUX* list? Atul> Thaths - please set up a separate list for war-monging of Atul> this sort, and let's get back to discussing *LINUX* on this Atul> list. Atul> In the future, I would like to see *LINUX* related messages Atul> here - especially Linux in India. Atul> Thanks. Atul> Atul Atul> -------------------------------------------------------- Atul> Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Atul> Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | Atul> +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 Atul> -------------------------------------------------------- Atul> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Atul> The LIG mailing list archives are available at: Atul> http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 18:40:15 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97E7638050 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:40:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from outsider ([202.54.50.137]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18049 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:12:16 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <004901bf88d6$15748580$893236ca@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:12:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200003/55 >have no compunctions in responding in the list itself. Maybe we need >to work out a charter for this list and stick to it? May be we just need to grow up and find some work ... ... Swati P.S. that says it all - I wont reply to any flames :-) ======================================= Creating not just Web Sites but Web Applications http://www.sanisoft-india.com Search Engine for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: Raj Mathur To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Date: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [LIG] DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not >Hi Atul, From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 20:59:02 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7229338197 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20791 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:58:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:58:57 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Message-ID: <20000307205856.A20713@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <14533.46589.946110.837944@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com>; from Raj Mathur on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 07:37:57AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/56 On Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 07:37:57AM +0530, Raj Mathur wrote: > Hi Atul, > > Frankly, I fail completely to see what the original message had to do > with Linux. I just go along with the flow... if Arun feels it's OK to > post messages giving alternative points of view to GNU, then I too > have no compunctions in responding in the list itself. Maybe we need > to work out a charter for this list and stick to it? Charter for a "general" list :-) ? I think we're just getting a bit too serious and I'm as guilty as anyone else of getting obsessed with the issue. I guess, we just need to step back a little bit and argue once in a couple of months, rather than once in a couple of days :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 21:33:32 2000 Received: from exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3266A3806E for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03700 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:04:34 +0530 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:04:33 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: List Charter In-Reply-To: <14533.46589.946110.837944@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/57 Not for me to judge either side of the "discussions", but I *do* take the liberty of judging the "Linux in India" relevance of *all* the messages over the past couple of months, which has been 0%. Let's end this once and for all, and give this list some meaning. It is entirely possible that people would assume "Linux India General" to be discussing Linux in India - I wonder why? Whatever the reason may be - *that* would be the primary charter of the list. Some sample relevant topics (let's see how many people have something to contribute to topics like *these*): - Changing the mindset: How to make people look beyond just installation. - Microsoft's new strategy: Targetting state governments - how can Linux counter that. - Unifying and accelerating the growth of Linux efforts in India - Linux in Indian education: are we doing anything to help? - Linux not ready for the desktop???? etc. Most important of all - it was pretty evident from the threads we have been seeing over the past couple of months that the discussions were more about "being right" than "coming to a satisfactory conclusion". Such an approach will just split things into fragmented ideology camps, and Linux will lose because of it. The second charter of the list should be "achieving results", not "being right". I could go on, but I guess you get the drift. Anyone else who has anything to contribute to the charter of this list? Even better - anyone who would like to start a meaningful (and relevant discussion here? Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 21:52:42 2000 Received: from exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C30538120 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03753; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:23:40 +0530 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:23:40 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not In-Reply-To: <20000307205856.A20713@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/58 On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > Charter for a "general" list :-) ? I think we're just getting a bit too > serious and I'm as guilty as anyone else of getting obsessed with > the issue. Charter may be the wrong word, but guidelines on what would be relevant? > I guess, we just need to step back a little bit and argue once in a > couple of months, rather than once in a couple of days :) s/once in a couple of days/always/g ;-) Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 22:03:17 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FF538270 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:03:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (nodin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id VAA19551; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 21:58:33 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id WAA84938; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA52514; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:32:19 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00980; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:30:27 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14533.60539.168866.326430@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:30:27 +0530 (IST) To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: List Charter In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/59 I agree. We need more of Linux and less of licensing on this list. However, I also must admit that licensing discussions aren't without their interesting side ;-) Regards, -- Raju >>>>> "Atul" == Atul Chitnis writes: Atul> Not for me to judge either side of the "discussions", but I Atul> *do* take the liberty of judging the "Linux in India" Atul> relevance of *all* the messages over the past couple of Atul> months, which has been 0%. Atul> Let's end this once and for all, and give this list some Atul> meaning. Atul> It is entirely possible that people would assume "Linux Atul> India General" to be discussing Linux in India - I wonder Atul> why? Atul> Whatever the reason may be - *that* would be the primary Atul> charter of the list. Atul> Some sample relevant topics (let's see how many people have Atul> something to contribute to topics like *these*): Atul> - Changing the mindset: How to make people look beyond just Atul> installation. Atul> - Microsoft's new strategy: Targetting state governments - Atul> how can Linux counter that. Atul> - Unifying and accelerating the growth of Linux efforts in Atul> India Atul> - Linux in Indian education: are we doing anything to help? Atul> - Linux not ready for the desktop???? Atul> etc. Atul> Most important of all - it was pretty evident from the Atul> threads we have been seeing over the past couple of months Atul> that the discussions were more about "being right" than Atul> "coming to a satisfactory conclusion". Such an approach will Atul> just split things into fragmented ideology camps, and Linux Atul> will lose because of it. Atul> The second charter of the list should be "achieving Atul> results", not "being right". Atul> I could go on, but I guess you get the drift. Atul> Anyone else who has anything to contribute to the charter of Atul> this list? Atul> Even better - anyone who would like to start a meaningful Atul> (and relevant discussion here? Atul> Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 22:28:23 2000 Received: from exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.226]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E085380B5 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03900 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:59:27 +0530 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:59:27 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: List Charter In-Reply-To: <14533.60539.168866.326430@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/60 On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Raj Mathur wrote: > However, I also must admit that licensing discussions aren't without > their interesting side ;-) If it is interesting, it needs a forum - so do we need a linux-india-licensing, with a "you need to beg for membership" clause? ;-) Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 7 22:46:52 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EF4D38055 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay ([202.54.37.115]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20211 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:04:42 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000308121327.00987810@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 12:15:59 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: List Charter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/61 At 11:59 AM 3/8/00 +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: >On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Raj Mathur wrote: > > > However, I also must admit that licensing discussions aren't without > > their interesting side ;-) > >If it is interesting, it needs a forum - so do we need a >linux-india-licensing Maybe a LIG analog of Really Bad Attitude ? ;-) Thaths / Arun: were you guys on RBA ? Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 00:11:12 2000 Received: from giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (giasmd01.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119F2380B5 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from giasmd01.vsnl.net.in ([203.197.136.111]) by giasmd01.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11485 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:45:29 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <38C60D29.BEF00F02@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:49:53 +0530 From: Muthu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LIG Subject: Linux India Fund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/62 Hello Everybody, Why don't we start a Linux Fund (LAY - Linux And You) in the local LUG and collect some amount regularly (maybe Rs. 5 or any amount affordable by the members) during the monthly meeting and use it for some purposes listed below: 1. Visit colleges, institutes(Technical as well as Arts) or any place where the audience will be interested in knowing about LINUX and give some presentation on the usual stuff of installing, configuring, using Linux etc. We can also print some simple handouts and give it to them. 2. Publish a quarterly newsletter on Linux for our members. 3. The fund can also be used for organizing Linux Demo Day regularly. These are just what struck my mind. You can add something or subtract something or multiply by 0 this entire idea. Muthu -- ========================== Got Slack? Slackware Linux http://www.slackware.com/ ========================== From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 00:25:23 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EB138055 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.160]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA32603; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:53:50 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00826; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:57:47 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 13:57:47 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Arun Sharma , Linux India General Subject: Re: DevShed: Open-Source - On Why Not Message-ID: <20000308135747.A818@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Atul Chitnis , Arun Sharma , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:23:40AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/63 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LIG that: >Charter may be the wrong word, but guidelines on what would be relevant? Guidelines would be to take long drawn out flame wars (GNU v/s BSD, me v/s Khader ) etc offline. Private mail, or failing that, http://www.takeitoffline.com -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Your mailer sucks eggs, ~My~ mailer rules From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 00:42:38 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246CC3806A for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 00:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.44]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09888 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:13:35 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <001701bf8908$90bccfe0$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Linux in Business Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:12:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200003/64 Hello All, Can someone/each one outline various/some viable business models for Indian scenario using Open Source Technologies We run a WebDev shop using mostly open source / freewares - so you wont see our techies sitting with front page or weaving dreams. They write raw html and PHP using Joe and vim - but getting them there was such a pain... The object of raising this here is that if we can build up solid base of case studies and road maps for small / medium (less than a crore) businesses Linux would be on a stronger foothold in India. Lets face it - Nobody is going to Use/Learn Linux if it cannot bring home the bacon :-) Swati ======================================= Creating not just Web Sites but Web Applications http://www.sanisoft-india.com Search Engine for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ======================================= From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 01:20:29 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33F1A38058 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 01:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.20.13]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20023; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:48:41 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00930; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:07:53 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:07:53 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: List Charter Message-ID: <20000308140753.B818@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:04:33AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/65 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LIG that: >- Changing the mindset: How to make people look beyond just installation. ... and SiS cards / YMF 724 sound cards :) >- Microsoft's new strategy: Targetting state governments - how can Linux >counter that. Advantage - NIC (which provides connectivity to state govts) already uses Unix (Solaris or SCO, mostly). So, convincing ~them~ to switch to Linux will pay more dividends. >- Unifying and accelerating the growth of Linux efforts in India An inter-LUG meeting would do wonders. ILUG-Hyd is doing a lot here (we get stalls ) in most PC expos that come along, and showcase Linux. Most of the other guys being typical marketers selling the same old crud, Linux ~really~ rules, attracting over 5 times the crowd in all the other stalls. >- Linux in Indian education: are we doing anything to help? Doc Partha does this at all the engg colleges he goes to - esp those in remote areas which have a large bunch of trashed old 8088 / 286 boxen. Makes them all into dumb terminals with just serial cables ... presto, brand new lease of life for them, much better than running DOS based junk on 'em. >- Linux not ready for the desktop???? There ~are~ a few things still needed for the desktop -- 1. An accounting package (like Tally / EX) 2. Slightly better version of Star Office >Anyone else who has anything to contribute to the charter of this list? A warning like that which turns up when you post to usenet using, say, PINE. "Message could go out to thousands of people. Do you still want to post this?" -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Your mailer sucks eggs, ~My~ mailer rules From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 04:35:08 2000 Received: from rmx01.mail.com (rmx01.mail.com [165.251.32.149]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74AC38154 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from web39.pub01 (web39.pub01.mail.com [165.251.32.129]) by rmx01.mail.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08240 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:35:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <385464466.952518903860.JavaMail.root@web39.pub01> Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:35:03 -0500 (EST) From: Biju Chacko To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Questionable Characters. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 202.54.89.31 X-Archive-Number: 200003/66 Something we need to address: http://botsie.tripod.com/QChar.html Biju ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 04:49:12 2000 Received: from scribe.pobox.com (scribe.pobox.com [208.210.124.35]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8657C3806D for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 04:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay (unknown [202.54.37.115]) by scribe.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2B03258C; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 07:48:00 -0500 (EST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000308181550.00987390@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 18:18:19 +0530 To: Biju Chacko , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Re: Questionable Characters. In-Reply-To: <385464466.952518903860.JavaMail.root@web39.pub01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/67 At 07:35 AM 3/8/00 -0500, Biju Chacko wrote: >http://botsie.tripod.com/QChar.html This would appear to be another manifestation of an old, old phenomenon - when there's a gold rush in the air, there are hucksters trying to con the suckers and the naive. I like the tone of your piece - concern, yet not a witch hunt. Even if the two specific examples cited in your piece are false alarms, this is something the community needs to be aware of, and guard against. Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 08:33:21 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E073808D for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23027 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:33:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 08:33:14 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: List Charter Message-ID: <20000308083314.A23006@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000308121327.00987810@202.54.12.17>; from Udhay Shankar N on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:15:59PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/68 On Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 12:15:59PM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Thaths / Arun: were you guys on RBA ? I was pretty active on BA, but never tried to qualify for RBA. I guess, that would've been a tough one :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 09:09:05 2000 Received: from goa1.dot.net.in (goa1.dot.net.in [202.54.17.30]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C040A3805D for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:08:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from goanews ([202.54.17.107]) by goa1.dot.net.in (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA25413; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:40:11 +0530 (GMT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000308222129.007beaa0@202.54.17.30> X-Sender: fred@202.54.17.30 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:21:29 +0500 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org From: Frederick Noronha Subject: PLEASE HELP IF POSSIBLE... A small problem Cc: srikrishan@vsnl.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Archive-Number: 200003/69 >From: "Gaddam Srikrishan" >To: >Subject: A small problem >Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:42:14 +0530 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 > > Hello Mr. Frederick Noronha I would like to introduce myself to you. >My name is Gaddam Srikrishan and I am working as a Systems Executive in >India's leading publishing organisations. My job is basically the job of >System Administration. These days I am trying to learn Linux >Operarting System. I find it very complete in the sense that it comes >bundled with all apps as well as app development tools, and if properly >used and exploited, has tremendous potential in this versatile OS. My >purpose of this mail is basically to get an answer to my small problem. >The thing is that right now I am learning Shell Scripts and that too from >a book I downloaded from net and at the end of each chapter they give some >questions. Likewise there's a chapter about Shell Scripts. In the >questions there's a question like getting the input from a user and to >determine whether the input is a palindrome or not. If they had asked me >to do so in C I could have done very easily, but here I don''t know how to >reverse a string using the regular UNIX commands. Not only that I am not >even able to access any of the character in any string variable, like I'd >have done in C using the array and pointer methods. I have been so >desparate to get solution but through all my contacts I not able to get >the solution. The I turned to the Net and visited the LINUX site from >where I got your E-mail address. I ask all my apologies if you find any >problems in my e-mailing. Thanking you very much and hoping an answer >for my petty palindrome problem Yours Gaddam Srikrishan From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 09:59:32 2000 Received: from hd2.dot.net.in (hd2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.30.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C538C38061 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 09:59:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com (root@[203.197.21.117]) by hd2.dot.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA03951 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:28:13 +0530 (IST) Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00907 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:32:14 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:32:14 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Questionable Characters Message-ID: <20000308233214.A901@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200003081750.XAA29774@hd2.dot.net.in>; from savitr@hd2.dot.net.in on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:20:47PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/70 Biju Chacko saw fit to inform LI that: > nauseatingly, a female penguin named "Peggy" tacked to the wall behind Two options - 1. He carried out a sex change operation on Tux 2. He feels Tux is lonely and feeling amorous, so he created "Peggy" :) Sounds like the PCQ Nov '99 redhat cd ... > modified the install so that it would recognise a SiS 6215 display That's there. > card. He had also, amazingly, made the DOS commands "dir", "copy", > "del" and so on work on Linux! Beyond that I was unable to get any pcqupdt installs "dossy" commands - thats what these are. So, PCQ sues him, RedHat sues him and (better still) Linus chases him ... perhaps Tux also goes after him for producing such an ugly female penguin (remember how Linus was bitten by an angry penguin and got the idea of tux) ... > "What kind of programmers do you need?" I asked. " > Uhhh...I just need some really hot programmers." he replied. HoHoHoHoHo .......... endless laughter. ROFLMAO. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian | President, CAUCE India r.suresh@mailandnews.com | suresh@india.cauce.org http://www.india.cauce.org | Stopping Spam In India -- Nothing happens. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 10:57:59 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328A238086 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:57:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12147 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:53:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FR4A0702.QWY for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:57:43 -0800 Message-ID: <38C6A2A7.F48D13AC@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:57:43 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: List Charter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/71 Udhay Shankar N proclaimed: > Thaths / Arun: were you guys on RBA ? Being a lowly "content engineer" in those days I did not have the guts to flame someone to cinders. Hence I was not qualified for RBA. I was (and occasionally still am) active in BA. One of the best moments in BA was when Arun, Frank Hecker, Mike Shaver, jwz, yours truly etc. were discussing why it sucked that Netscape's IS department did not support Linux machines. As usualy the discussion digressed. It was to this thread that Frank Hecker posted his white paper about mozilla's source code. Another defining moment in this thread was when Eric Hahn (then CTO of Netscape) stepped in and wanted to find out about why Linux made sense. Ahhhhh! Nostalgia. Thaths -- "Be patient, son. A watched car never crashes." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 19:21:27 2000 Received: from billahd.wilnetonline.net (mailserver.wilnetonline.net [202.164.96.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9931338099 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([202.164.107.150]) by billahd.wilnetonline.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA41; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:51:26 -0500 From: deda1us Reply-To: crsoni@wilnetonline.net To: Frederick Noronha , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP IF POSSIBLE... A small problem Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:19:36 +0530 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000308222129.007beaa0@202.54.17.30> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00030823213900.04835@localhost> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archive-Number: 200003/72 > >In the questions there's a question like getting the input from a user = and to > >determine whether the input is a palindrome or not. If they had asked= me > >to do so in C I could have done very easily, but here I don''t know how= to > >reverse a string using the regular UNIX commands.=20 I'll post the answer on linux-india-programmers list, which is the=20 right place for such stuff. rahul --=20 Stephen jerked his thumb towards the window, saying, "That is God" "Hooray! Ay! Whrrwhee!" "What?" Mr Deasy asked. "A shout in the street," Stephen answered, shrugging his shoulders. -- James Joyce, Ulysses From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 20:22:41 2000 Received: from svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (unknown [206.103.11.137]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CD1B3808C for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from iname.com ([172.18.10.102]) by svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) with SMTP id 6525689D.00183D9E; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:54:50 +0530 Message-ID: <38C72742.1BF6092A@iname.com> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 09:53:30 +0530 From: Robin Chatterjee Organization: Tata Consultancy Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: My experiments with linux (wasList Charter) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/73 Well then why don't we ask all members on the LIG list to write in with their personal experiences in getting/trying to get linux adopted in their workplace/business ? For example here at TCS calcutta we ran our online screening tests on software called veda which was running on linux . Problem was the software was guaranteed to work with redhat 5.2 , hence management wanted us to run it on 5.2 at a time when 6.0 was on the market - what happened ? One of the boxes was cracked at IIT kharagpur and they managed to crash the system - even though all unnecessary services were stopped. That caused us to lose face / also made problems for us ardent linux advocates. Currently we have at least three official installations. One in our Internet solutions group for testing on apache, one in our systems software group for testing purposes and general keera(r&d :) ) And one running as a server for an intranet application that we developed using apache/mysql/php3. We also have at least two unofficial linux dual boots :) Distros are redhat 6.1,suse and mandrake 7.0 I 've also got winlinux, and corel linux on cd but haven't tried them out yet... By the way all opinions expressed by me are my own and do not represent those of my company or any other party ( statutory declaration) So lets hear who you folks have to say.... Raj what's the sgi scene ? Khader ( if present ?) what's the IBM scene Others lets have some real linux discussions - what issues have you faced in getting your companies to ride the linux bandwagon ? By the way since in most of TCS s/w projects we give the clients the sources to the applications we develop for them would that be a sort of open-sourcing ? Somewhat on the lines of BSD ? or probably even freer ? Comments anyone ? Cheerio Robin Atul Chitnis wrote: > On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, Raj Mathur wrote: > > > However, I also must admit that licensing discussions aren't without > > their interesting side ;-) > > If it is interesting, it needs a forum - so do we need a > linux-india-licensing, with a "you need to beg for membership" clause? > > ;-) > > Atul > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general -- _END_ Robin S Chatterjee Yahoo pager ID -Robinchatterjee mailto:robinsc@iname.com mailto:robins_chatterjee@tcscal.co.in FAX 1-(815)550-6171 Robin's Poetry Pages http://www.geocities.com/singerosongs Robin's Perl Pages http://www.geocities.com/robinchatterjee From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 21:49:00 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C1E38051 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay ([202.54.37.115]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29954 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:06:39 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000309104919.0098ce20@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:49:48 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Interesting security snippet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/74 -- 3 March 2000 More Credit Card Numbers Stolen, Posted on Web Exploiting a vulnerability in Microsoft's Internet Information Server, a cracker calling himself "Curador" stole and posted 6,000 credit card numbers on a web site; he claimed to have more than 23,000 numbers in all. The site, paid for with a stolen card number, has been shut down. One of the breached sites, SalesGate.com, notified customers and banks of the problem; the company plans to switch to a Linux operating system. http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cth502.htm http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000303F33A http://news.cnet.com/category/0-1007-200-1563391.html -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 23:42:15 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E7338078 for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:42:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24995 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:42:03 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:42:03 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP IF POSSIBLE... A small problem Message-ID: <20000308234203.A24966@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <00030823213900.04835@localhost>; from deda1us on Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:19:36PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/75 On Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 11:19:36PM +0530, deda1us wrote: > > >In the questions there's a question like getting the input from a user and to > > >determine whether the input is a palindrome or not. If they had asked me > > >to do so in C I could have done very easily, but here I don''t know how to > > >reverse a string using the regular UNIX commands. > > I'll post the answer on linux-india-programmers list, which is the > right place for such stuff. I'd just ask him to write it in C and combine it with a bunch of other programs to accomplish whatever he's trying to :) -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 23:49:20 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61F83804F for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:49:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25030 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:49:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:49:12 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: My experiments with linux (wasList Charter) Message-ID: <20000308234912.B24966@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <38C72742.1BF6092A@iname.com>; from Robin Chatterjee on Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 09:53:30AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/76 On Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 09:53:30AM +0530, Robin Chatterjee wrote: > For example here at TCS calcutta we ran our online screening tests on > software called veda which was running on linux . Is that some kind of a network security package ? > Problem was the software > was guaranteed to work with redhat 5.2 , hence management wanted us to run > it on 5.2 at a time when 6.0 was on the market - what happened ? The problem is that the management believes security is a product. As someone famously said - security is a process, not a product. > By the way since in most of TCS s/w projects we give the clients the > sources to the applications we develop for them would that be a sort of > open-sourcing ? Somewhat on the lines of BSD ? or probably even freer ? My understanding of TCS (and similar companies') business model is that you write code and give it to the client in exchange for money. So the client really owns the code and it's really up to them to open source it or not. BSD is a lot different. Anyone can do anything with the code, as long as the copyright is maintained and you don't sue the authors for the code having crashed your computer. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 8 23:53:36 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4B63804F for ; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:53:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25068 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:53:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 23:53:33 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Interesting security snippet Message-ID: <20000308235333.C24966@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000309104919.0098ce20@202.54.12.17>; from Udhay Shankar N on Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 10:49:48AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/77 On Thu, Mar 09, 2000 at 10:49:48AM +0530, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > > -- 3 March 2000 More Credit Card Numbers Stolen, Posted on Web > Exploiting a vulnerability in Microsoft's Internet Information Server, > a cracker calling himself "Curador" stole and posted 6,000 credit card > numbers on a web site; It's becoming a standard practice to encrypt such information in most sensitive places. I've been designing one for my current employer. No software is secure. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 9 13:58:15 2000 Received: from rmx01.mail.com (rmx01.mail.com [165.251.32.149]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AEE38051 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:58:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from web12.mail.com (web12.pub01.mail.com [165.251.32.22]) by rmx01.mail.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05039 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:58:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <385499913.952639085941.JavaMail.root@web12.mail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 16:58:05 -0500 (EST) From: Jan Blomberg To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: linux developer in India Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: mail.com X-Originating-IP: 193.150.202.103 X-Archive-Number: 200003/78 Hi, I'm looking for a Linux developer/company in India, who can help me build an Internet service, using mySQL/Apache/TurboLinux. Does anyone have a list of reliable firms or a personal recommendation? Thanks, Jan Blomberg Stockholm, Sweden ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 10 03:40:28 2000 Received: from mail.unimedia.net (unknown [209.0.153.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 80DB838260 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 03:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay [202.54.37.115] by mail.unimedia.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.07) id AD767B4014E; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 05:33:10 CST X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000310170805.0098a100@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:08:49 +0530 To: Linux India General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: website updates? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/79 Yo webmaster! (yes, you! I know where you live...) When are you planning to update the website ? Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile Now Live ! From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 11 00:16:41 2000 Received: from c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177A93805A for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA31847 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:16:32 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:16:32 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Linux kernel stuff Message-ID: <20000311001632.A31818@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200003/80 http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/linux-scalability/status/jan-feb2000.html This URL is instructive for a bunch of different purposes: 1. IBM funding grad students to fix O(n) scheduler problems in Linux. 2. Linux kernel folks maintaining that this is not a problem. Having many runnable processes in the run queue is the problem. 3. Good observations about the state of the development process: It's time to truly open up the development process. It's time to tap the wide range of development resources and ideas that are becoming available to the Linux community. Unfortunately, there is no coherent and ultimate leadership in the community that can bring this about, since it is a community based on political and social chaos. Some even argue that is Linux's fundamental strength. From an average user's point of view, all these things don't matter, except for the video/network/modem support. But since much of Linux's strength and unity comes from the kernel - this might be significant. Having followed FreeBSD in the last few months, my impression is that they have a much better process. Perhaps, Linux can steal a leaf from their book in the true open source spirit. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 03:33:31 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C03D380F4; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.153]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:01:36 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00717; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:59:23 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:59:23 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Mukund Deshmukh , Linux India General Cc: LI Help , Raj Mathur Subject: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Message-ID: <20000314165923.A673@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Mukund Deshmukh , Linux India General , LI Help , Raj Mathur Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000c01bf8d8b$98281f00$f201a8c0@default>; from betacomp@nagpur.dot.net.in on Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 11:10:24AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: RedHat Linux 6.1 Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i586 X-Archive-Number: 200003/81 Mukund Deshmukh saw fit to inform LI that: >I STRONGLY CONDEMN the kind of language of the mail, If some one is offered >an root account on platter he can not be called as cracker, I wonder why Does that mean that VSNL has called him up and told him the root password? Tell you what - suppose I leave my house loosely locked while I go out, do you have any right to break in, just to test how well I have locked my house? >And if some one opens with security a related topic, he is threatened to be >thrown out. If someone is faced with a breakin attempt on his servers, lots of us here do help. In fact, I ~have~ helped a few people (such as Binand) secure their mailservers. What I (and doubtless others on the list) don't like is people breaking into somebody's server and boasting about it on the list. >I know there are many people on this list who are managing the important >server, Do they know ? 8< list ........ Anyone who reads bugtraq / cert / even reads the security updates posted on the redhat / any *nix site is welcome to all this info and lots more. So, what's your point? Raju has, in the past, posted lots of mails from the redhat / debian lists, bugtraq etc, warning about these vulnerablities and detailing the fix. He has NOT, on the other hand, broken into my (or anybody else's) server and boasted about it. Raju -- how about resuming those periodic "security update" posts? >Why these are not discussed on this list because some will boot his as* from >the list? Search the list archives. >So please do not discourage security related topics to this list even if >they are posted by a hacker. I have posted such stuff - but I have detailed the fixes. I have not boasted "I have cracked vsnl, I have cracked xyz server" ... (and there is nothing to boast about downloading lame h4x0r t00lz / learning age old cracks, and trying them on lamebrain servers). In fact, another member of LI-H mailed me offlist just the other day, asking what he should do about people portscanning his server to look for open ports etc to break in. That sort of stuff is perfectly acceptable on the list. >Most of the lister have an account on vsnl /dot server and any security >related discussion can not be out context. I receive an average 10 kb a spam That can be remedied to some extent, and CAUCE India is trying to convince VSNL ... but you cannot sit on your butt and blame vsnl for anything and everything. Check out stuff like Spamicide / Spam Hater (for 'doze) and Spam Bouncer for Linux (warning - this is advanced procmail). >mail every day, just because server admin are not in position to maintain >their server properly. I do not want some one peeking in to my mail box as Then use vsnl only to connect to the net and get an account elsewhere, where you can be sure of having a secured server. For what it is worth, most of the situation is remedied now - at least VSNL has substantially upgraded a lot of the software they are running .... you are not likely to find h4x0ring VSNL that easy now that they are running 8.9.x / postfix, and most servers (at least in the larger cities) have updated their kernels etc as well. It can't change overnight, but VSNL ~is~ changing, thanks mainly to Mr.G.P.Singh, sysadmin of VSNL Bombay, who has been working very closely with us. Several VSNL servers were on the RBL till he upgraded them and got the blacklisting removed. >If any discussion on this list is going help vsnl to set the things right, >it will be beneficial to listers only. Or rather, it will encourage enough people to think that the average linux user in India is still full of script kiddies (I won't even dignify breaking into VSNL servers by calling it "cracking"). >And Sibayan can not called as cracker if the root account of cl server is >offered on platter to him. If you keep doors and lockers of your house open, >and a burglar strikes, cops will blame you first. It is every ones duty to If I am as careless as that, they ~will~ blame me first, but that does not mean they won't arrest the burglar when they find him. Plus the fact that cracking (and rooting) a box disrupts services for hundreds of users while you are sitting playing around - and that does not take into the possible damage caused by some half baked h4x0r roaming around at will. If you have anything further to say on this subject - take it to Linux India General or mail me offlist. We'll let the list stay with Yamaha sound cards, SiS cards etc, till something sensible comes out on this issue. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- A successful [software] tool is one that was used to do something undreamed of by its author. -- S. C. Johnson From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 05:12:02 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846C0380F4 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.52]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA04746 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:44:01 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <00df01bf8de5$4f496320$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:42:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200003/82 Hi Suresh, Been following this thread and now that it is in the right forum I am jumping in :-) All said and done - my talents of rooting into VSNL/DOT boxes has been a life saver for me atleast three time 1) I got a pop lock on a Sunday morning 2) A mysterious 2mb file owned by root appeared in my home dir blocking all my mails 3) I could not change my passwd from the shell Does that make me a vile creature as you put it to be? Frankly I found your language Abusive and Offensive as well - Why did you not mail that poor kiddie personally? Did it suit your ego to whack someone in your righteousness publicly These lists have an Admin who is doing a very good job are you implying that you are better than him. Tarique ======================================= Creating not just Web Sites but Web Applications http://www.sanisoft-india.com Search Engine for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ======================================= From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 05:19:20 2000 Received: from mailgw3.prontomail.com (mailgw3.prontomail.com [209.185.149.199]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2E6838113 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:19:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from web22 (209.185.149.222) by mailgw3.prontomail.com (NPlex 2.0.123) for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 05:14:19 -0800 From: "sivasunder sistla" Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:56:49 +0530 X-Priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Linux in Business X-Mailer: Web Based Pronto Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/83 >Lets face it - Nobody is going to Use/Learn Linux if it cannot bring >home the bacon :-) I've been using Linux at home for the last two years and it doesn't bring home any bacon for me. I'm veg anyway :-) sunder Visit my personal Homepage at http://mail.indiatimes.com/indiatimes/users/bundar Get Your Free E-mail at http://www.indiatimes.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 11:54:39 2000 Received: from mail.zeenext.com (unknown [203.197.173.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476833806B for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from TopGun (ppp101-149.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.101.149]) by mail.zeenext.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA12411 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:20:14 +0530 Message-ID: <010701bf8def$fe41f9a0$9565c5cb@TopGun> From: "Shanker R Swaminathan" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:06:51 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/84 > 1) I got a pop lock on a Sunday morning > > 2) A mysterious 2mb file owned by root appeared in my home dir blocking all > my mails > > 3) I could not change my passwd from the shell Did you inform the sysadmin about this? When I/We informed the sysadmins about problems involving holes- They DID respond and quickly too. I Have always got a reply within 24 hours . Just because you know how to play around with the VSNL systems doesn't give you the right to go around doing so. There are perhaps hundreds of Servers which are similarly configfured servers in University depts around India ( Similar to mine) , where students have access . If everyoneof them starts practicing his /her talents on the VSNL servers , nobody else would get any work done. Breaking into the VSNL servers had become such a childishly easy affair previously that now no- body should call him/herself a proficient cracker for having got into one! Anyway - At least in Calcutta- With the Checkpoint server running , Common break-ins as described by sibiyan are mostly history ( Try playing around with dynamic IP Blocking- Catches you many times!) . While there are holes left( Some still exist:-( )- publicizing them does not do any useful thing if no action has been taken by the publisher to remedy it.. Every incident in bugtraq is published only if the author has determined that the people concerned are not taking remidial action and further supression for facts is not going to further any public interest.. Sibiyan had made an irresponsible statement and suresh rightly replied as he did. I do remember some slamming suresh took for posting some details on the sendmail buffer overflow problem . Why the double standards now. If the ruckus that was created was OK for suresh , it should be by the same stick , be Acceptable for everyone. No irresponsible statements should be allowed on a public forum. shanker From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 12:52:43 2000 Received: from glaurung.green-gryphon.com (tiamat.ametro.net [209.102.145.185]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6786E3806B for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:52:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srivasta@localhost) by glaurung.green-gryphon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA27132; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:43:15 -0600 X-Mailer: emacs 20.5.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-7 I) X-Time: Tue Mar 14 14:43:11 2000 Mail-Copies-To: never To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish From: Manoj Srivastava X-URL: http://www.debian.org/ Organization: The Debian Project Date: 14 Mar 2000 14:43:14 -0600 In-Reply-To: Arun Sharma's message of "Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:19:21 -0800" Message-ID: <87ya7lffkt.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com> Lines: 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/85 Hi, Ob Linux: If you have a UNIX based kerneberos realm, you can still get w2k clients to use your UNIX kerberos servers by following the recipe here: Thus you don't have to go to a all w2k shop and retain full kerberos coverage. >>"Arun" == Arun Sharma writes: Arun> Another troll huh ? Pot. Kettle. Black. Arun> GPL can only "protect" code, not ideas [1] Microsoft will still Arun> be "free" to implement their own kerberos extensions. They would have been forced to open the extensions so people could write compatibility in UNIX servers. Arun> Do you have any evidence to suggest that Microsoft used MIT code ? Actually, yes. Microsoft did not write the code for kerberos, or their RPC, from scratch. They joined OSF and took code from them. And this is not conjecture. Even microsoft is not stupid enough to reimlemnt something when they are presented with unprotected code ;-) Anyway, in the past MS had had a terrible track record implementing security (see: http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html), and I don't thikn they could have even come close to creating something like Kerberos. manoj -- Each of us bears his own Hell. Publius Vergilius Maro (Virgil) Manoj Srivastava 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 13:02:41 2000 Received: from glaurung.green-gryphon.com (tiamat.ametro.net [209.102.145.185]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FBE38078 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srivasta@localhost) by glaurung.green-gryphon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA27560; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:54:07 -0600 X-Mailer: emacs 20.5.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-7 I) X-Time: Tue Mar 14 14:54:04 2000 Mail-Copies-To: never To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] Re :[OT] Hackers From: Manoj Srivastava X-URL: http://www.debian.org/ Organization: The Debian Project Date: 14 Mar 2000 14:54:07 -0600 In-Reply-To: Rajeev's message of "Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:24:10 +0530" Message-ID: <87snxtff2o.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com> Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/86 >>"Rajeev" == Rajeev writes: Rajeev> hooopsss..... hacking , cracking , and crack-king but i Rajeev> agree with UK that system administrators should be aware of Rajeev> this fact and anybody who brings this out in open is not Since when does one have to be a thief to warn home owners about theft? manoj -- Keep grandma off the streets -- legalize bingo. Manoj Srivastava 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 13:14:17 2000 Received: from glaurung.green-gryphon.com (tiamat.ametro.net [209.102.145.185]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565F438078 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from srivasta@localhost) by glaurung.green-gryphon.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA28114; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:06:35 -0600 X-Mailer: emacs 20.5.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-7 I) X-Time: Tue Mar 14 15:06:34 2000 Mail-Copies-To: never To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: [LIH] Re :[OT] Hackers From: Manoj Srivastava X-URL: http://www.debian.org/ Organization: The Debian Project Date: 14 Mar 2000 15:06:34 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Mukund Deshmukh"'s message of "Tue, 14 Mar 2000 11:10:24 +0530" Message-ID: <87og8hfehx.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com> Lines: 99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/87 Hi, >>"Mukund" == Mukund Deshmukh writes: Mukund> I STRONGLY CONDEMN the kind of language of the mail, If some Mukund> one is offered an root account on platter he can not be Offered the root acount on a platter? The sysadmin came in and said, here, that the root password, do as you wish? His UID was changed to zero? He loggind in, and was presented with a root prompt? Where my wife comes from, it is an open community, and no one ever locks their doors. People trust that you would not violate the trust, and even though the door is open, it does not mean people wander through other peoples homes, just ``looking out of curiousity''. Failure to lock my door does not condone the person who perfors an unauthoprized entry. Mukund> called as cracker, I wonder why every one is shying away from Mukund> this kind of stuff. Because we are not thieves/ Mukund> I have been on this list for 2 years and found that 80% mail Mukund> are related to display, sound and mail problem. And if some Mukund> one opens with security a related topic, he is threatened to Mukund> be thrown out. He did not open a security related topic (BTW, I would be interesested in discussing freeswan, IPSEC, CIPE, the SINUS firewall, netfilter, mason, or any other security topic -- on the appropriate list) Mukund> Why ? Is the linux is limited to only display, sound and Mukund> mail problem. I know there are many people on this list who Mukund> are managing the important server, Do they know ? Enough that we know that you should never let your store be guided by a thieves advice alone. Mukund> Why these are not discussed on this list because some will Mukund> boot his as* from the list? Please look at BugTraq, where these kinds of things are discussed. I have no objection to disccussing uprades, security fixes, etc, where the emphasis is on security, not on cracking. Mukund> So please do not discourage security related topics to this Mukund> list even if they are posted by a hacker. He is not a hacker. Seems more like a cracker wanna be cracker exploits, so far. and talksing about how one broke into a mismanaged server does not really help admins -- at that level of isecurity, decent training is required. Mukund> Most of the lister have an account on vsnl /dot server and Mukund> any security related discussion can not be out context. I Mukund> receive an average 10 kb a spam mail every day, just because Mukund> server admin are not in position to maintain their server Mukund> properly. I do not want some one peeking in to my mail box as Mukund> it has mails from my overseas customer. If any discussion on Mukund> this list is going help vsnl to set the things right, it will Mukund> be beneficial to listers only. How is a discussion on this list about details on how to crack the server helping change things any? Mukund> And Sibayan can not called as cracker if the root account of Mukund> cl server is offered on platter to him. If you keep doors and Mukund> lockers of your house open, and a burglar strikes, cops will Mukund> blame you first. It is every ones duty to keep his house in Mukund> order first and then blame others. Strange, If that is true, Indian laws need a big overhaul. So the basic idea is that people do not have morals, they are all thieves, and you better lock down all valuables or else? Wonderful society you envisage. Mukund> Having said this, I am not afraid any one booting my as* from Mukund> the list, because then list will confined to display, sound Mukund> and mail problems, which certainly does not interest me. Is this a promise? Are you leaving us? Truly? Thanks a lot, then. Have a nice life. manoj tired of people who are only kept honest because they are too stupid to bypass locks -- It is undignified for a woman to play servant to a man who is not hers. Spock, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7 Manoj Srivastava 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 13:34:18 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C10D33807B for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08245 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:34:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:34:07 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish Message-ID: <20000314133407.A8209@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <87ya7lffkt.fsf@glaurung.green-gryphon.com>; from Manoj Srivastava on Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 02:43:14PM -0600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/88 On Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 02:43:14PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > Hi, > > Ob Linux: If you have a UNIX based kerneberos realm, you can > still get w2k clients to use your UNIX kerberos servers by following > the recipe here: > > Thus you don't have to go to a all w2k shop and retain full kerberos > coverage. Thanks. That proves my point. You don't need GPL to force people to be interoperable. > Arun> GPL can only "protect" code, not ideas [1] Microsoft will still > Arun> be "free" to implement their own kerberos extensions. > > They would have been forced to open the extensions so people > could write compatibility in UNIX servers. > Only if they used GPL'ed code. > Arun> Do you have any evidence to suggest that Microsoft used MIT code ? > > Actually, yes. Microsoft did not write the code for kerberos, > or their RPC, from scratch. They joined OSF and took code from > them. And this is not conjecture. Even microsoft is not stupid > enough to reimlemnt something when they are presented with > unprotected code ;-) Ok, it's a little more than a conjecture. But my point still holds - if Microsoft wanted to, they could reimplement the code. If you're claiming that Microsoft is incapable of rewriting kerberos, given it's description, I'll rest my case. > > Anyway, in the past MS had had a terrible track record > implementing security (see: http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html), > and I don't thikn they could have even come close to creating > something like Kerberos. While I don't agree with some of their policies, I think it's unfair to say Microsoft is an incompetent software organization. Microsoft SQL server holds the current TPC-C record. http://www.tpc.org/new_result/ttperf.idc -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 20:10:08 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C7238057 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.206]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:39:19 +0530 Received: from mailandnews.com (IDENT:suresh@frodo.kcircle.com [127.0.0.1]) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01445 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:41:58 +0530 Message-ID: <38CF0D8D.F963A069@mailandnews.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:41:57 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian Reply-To: r.suresh@mailandnews.com Organization: CAUCE India - www.india.cauce.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: LIG Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/89 Shanker R Swaminathan saw fit to inform LIG that: > always got a reply within 24 hours . Just because you know how to play > around with the VSNL systems doesn't give you the right to go around doing Seconded .... also the fact that you are disrupting services to all other vsnl users while you are logged in as root. > do remember some slamming suresh took for posting some details on the > sendmail buffer overflow problem . Why the double standards now. If the That was a generic security problem - available since several years on rootshell / cert / bugtraq ... wouldn't even affect newer sendmails. I also detailed a fix for it, if you'll note. That sort of thing is perfectly acceptable imho, not when someone boasts "I h4x0red vsnl" or says "I h4x0red vsnl because the admins are too clueless to solve my problem". -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- All your files have been destroyed (sorry). Paul. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 20:14:25 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C314380AE; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (210.214.53.235) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.047) id 38CEDD1500003937; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:12:57 +0000 Message-ID: <004501bf8e34$2166ebe0$f201a8c0@default> From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "Linux India General" Cc: "LI Help" , "Raj Mathur" Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:17:08 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Archive-Number: 200003/90 -----Original Message----- From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Mukund Deshmukh ; Linux India General Cc: LI Help ; Raj Mathur Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 5:28 PM Subject: [LIG] Re: Re :[OT] Hackers >Mukund Deshmukh saw fit to inform LI that: > >>I STRONGLY CONDEMN the kind of language of the mail, If some one is offered >>an root account on platter he can not be called as cracker, I wonder why > >Does that mean that VSNL has called him up and told him the root >password? Tell you what - suppose I leave my house loosely locked while I >go out, do you have any right to break in, just to test how well I have >locked my house? > It was literely on a plater in my case. About a year back when I pointed my browser to one of the dot server on a particular port , I got server administration menu with root priviledge. Now pointing my browser to an open port on any server can not ammount to cracking. Again a few days back when I telneted to an indian server on particuar port , I was offered root access without authintaction. In both cases I promptly informed the server admin. > >>I know there are many people on this list who are managing the important >>server, Do they know ? > >8< list ........ > >Anyone who reads bugtraq / cert / even reads the security updates posted >on the redhat / any *nix site is welcome to all this info and lots more. > How many server admin on linux-india read bugtraq? Out of 100 million Indian people I had found only one mail from raju on bugtraq in last one year. > >That can be remedied to some extent, and CAUCE India is trying to convince >VSNL ... but you cannot sit on your butt and blame vsnl for anything and >everything. Check out stuff like Spamicide / Spam Hater (for 'doze) and >Spam Bouncer for Linux (warning - this >is advanced procmail). CAUCE is doing really commendable work, but mail is not the only hackers target. > >Then use vsnl only to connect to the net and get an account elsewhere, >where you can be sure of having a secured server. For what it is worth, >most of the situation is remedied now - at least VSNL has substantially >upgraded a lot of the software they are running .... you are not likely to >find h4x0ring VSNL that easy now that they are running 8.9.x / >postfix, and most servers (at least in the larger cities) have updated >their kernels etc as well. > No I do not agree to this. I can still fetch, using standard commands, user list file from vsnl /dot servers. This will certianely not ammount to hacking or cracking as I have valid accounts on these server and the file permission is rwxr-xr-x. I have already sent mail to these server admin 2 months back, but none of them replied. >It can't change overnight, but VSNL ~is~ changing, thanks mainly to >Mr.G.P.Singh, sysadmin of VSNL Bombay, who has been working very closely >with us. Several VSNL servers were on the RBL > till he upgraded them and got the >blacklisting removed. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 21:28:20 2000 Received: from eth.net (pop3.eth.net [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B1838093; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:27:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.114]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:56:58 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01841; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:59:23 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:59:23 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Mukund Deshmukh Cc: Linux India General , LI Help , Doc Tarique Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Message-ID: <20000315105923.A1835@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Mukund Deshmukh , Linux India General , LI Help , Doc Tarique Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <004501bf8e34$2166ebe0$f201a8c0@default>; from betacomp@nagpur.dot.net.in on Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 09:17:08AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/91 Mukund Deshmukh saw fit to inform LI that: >It was literely on a plater in my case. About a year back when I pointed my >browser to one of the dot server on a particular port , I got server That is an argument quite often misused ... like Manoj said, just because a door is open, any xyz does not have the right to walk into it. >Now pointing my browser to an open port on any server can not ammount to >cracking. No. It merely amounts to trespassing. >In both cases I promptly informed the server admin. Were you, by any chance portscanning for open ports? I know quite a few sysadmins who'd be firing off e-mails to your isp demanding you be booted, if you so much as touched a non-public (whether open or not) port on their network. >How many server admin on linux-india read bugtraq? >Out of 100 million Indian people I had found only one mail from raju on >bugtraq in last one year. Even I don't post (or even lurk) on bugtraq - I read the archives whenever I have any issue to fix. I am sure many sysadmins do exactly that. >CAUCE is doing really commendable work, but mail is not the only hackers >target. NNTP for example ... we were recently working with VSNL, Satyam and MantraOnline re a series of vicious attacks on usenet (mailbombs etc). Most of the people sending junk mail (or selling vsnl users addresses) download the /etc/passwd file. They can, and have, run crack on it to decipher passwords (esp of those people who set their passwd as abc123, omsaibaba or something like that). >No I do not agree to this. I can still fetch, using standard commands, user >list file from vsnl /dot servers. This will certianely not ammount to On vsnl hyderabad at least, this is not the case. Anything beyond ls, cp, rm (and other basic commands) are restricted. >hacking or cracking as I have valid accounts on these server and the file >permission is rwxr-xr-x. Despite badly set permissions - if you are not the owner of the file - you have no right to touch it or access it. >I have already sent mail to these server admin 2 months back, but none of >them replied. As I said, I will introduce you to G.P.Singh of VSNL Bombay - you can tell him all the security holes in vsnl ~and~ the fixes available for these holes. Till then, please don't sniff around their boxes, exploring security holes. VSNL is quite capable of running cop / nmap etc to fix their servers ... -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Garbage In -- Gospel Out. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 23:10:57 2000 Received: from hansa.krec.ernet.in (hansa.krec.ernet.in [202.141.79.18]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 79F06380F0 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 4194 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2000 07:23:02 -0000 Received: from vidur.krec.ernet.in (qmailr@202.141.79.4) by hansa.krec.ernet.in with SMTP; 15 Mar 2000 07:23:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 31940 invoked by uid 1596); 15 Mar 2000 06:54:02 -0000 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:24:02 +0530 (IST) From: Sudheendra To: Linux India General Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/92 Hi everyone out there,I am new to this mailing list...... I have a problem configuring my sound card in Red Hat Linux..... My sound card is Yamaha.Could anyone tell me where will I get a driver for this sound card........... Thank you........ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sudheendra K Branch: E&E E-mail:ksvb@krec.ernet.in :sudhi80@hotmail.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 14 23:35:28 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 817BC381BE; Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-187-4.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.187.4]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22199; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:52:42 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02923; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:18:09 +0530 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:18:09 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: Sudheendra Cc: The Linux India General Mailing List , The Linux India Help Mailing List Subject: Re: Sound card problem Message-ID: <20000315131808.A2617@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: Sudheendra , The Linux India General Mailing List , The Linux India Help Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from ksvb@krec.ernet.in on Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 12:24:02PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/93 Hi, Sudheendra typed: > Hi everyone out there,I am new to this mailing list...... Technical queries should be posted to linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org. > I have a problem configuring my sound card in Red Hat Linux..... > My sound card is Yamaha.Could anyone tell me where will I get a driver for > this sound card........... You have to give more details - some are supported and some aren't. If you are stuck with the YMF 724, you're out of luck. Refer the archives for more.. -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - ENGLISH MAJORS do it with an accent From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 01:09:34 2000 Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F636381D2 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cix.exocore.com (d3-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.227] (may be forged)) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA12704 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:09:10 +0530 Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20162 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:03:16 +0530 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:03:16 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/94 Sudheendra: Wrong list - you should be on linux-india-help for tech queries. This is the list for "I-am-right-and-you-are-wrong" "discussions". Check out http://lists.linux-india.org for details. Cheerio! Atul On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Sudheendra wrote: > > Hi everyone out there,I am new to this mailing list...... > I have a problem configuring my sound card in Red Hat Linux..... > My sound card is Yamaha.Could anyone tell me where will I get a driver for > this sound card........... > Thank you........ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Sudheendra K > Branch: E&E > E-mail:ksvb@krec.ernet.in > :sudhi80@hotmail.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 04:13:01 2000 Received: from uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in [202.141.1.17]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F0263806A for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cix.exocore.com (d4-ts2.iisc.ernet.in [202.141.1.228] (may be forged)) by uumail-relay-blr.ernet.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA30473 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:47:37 +0530 Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA21124 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:40:14 +0530 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:40:14 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers In-Reply-To: <20000315105923.A1835@kcircle.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/95 I dropped out of LI/LIH because of such "discussions". Looks like there is no point sticking around here - some people are totally incapable of sticking to a list topic. I have stopped recommending this list to anyone for any kind of sane discussions about Linux in India. Everyone here is too hung up about positioning themselves as the ultimate autority on VSNL/hacking/cracking/licenses/etc. The name Linux does not figure anywhere. While you guys are going around with your points-counterpoints, may I point out how utterly worthless your "discussion" is in the context of this list, and that you are making this a completely uncomfortable place to be in? You are simply hijacking a valiant effort at spreading Linux in India for your own purposes. And you are doing it over and over and over again. These discussions have nothing to do with Linux in India. I am out of here to try my luck elsewhere. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 05:01:38 2000 Received: from web209.mail.yahoo.com (web209.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.109]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5205738060 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23622 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Mar 2000 13:01:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20000315130129.23621.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.27] by web209.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:01:29 PST Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 05:01:29 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers To: Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/96 --- Atul Chitnis wrote: > These discussions have nothing to do with Linux in > India. I'm afraid I must disagree. These script-kiddies could blacken the name of the entire Linux community. I know far too many business computing users who think that Linux users are some kind of Lunatic fringe. A reputation of lawlessness will not help our effort to bring Linux into the mainstream. We need to address the issue. ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 09:32:51 2000 Received: from cal2.vsnl.net.in (cal2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.26]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDDA38051 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:32:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from TopGun (ppp101-111.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.101.111]) by cal2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id XAA24193 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:01:48 +0500 (GMT+0500) Message-ID: <005101bf8ea5$5c690e00$6f65c5cb@TopGun> Reply-To: "Shanker R Swaminathan" From: "Shanker R Swaminathan" To: Subject: new list format Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:59:43 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/97 TO THE LISTADMIN Why is the format of the message so different now? The reply to filed now cointains the address of the original sender, so , whenever i try to reply from my mailer, the address of the sender and NOT the list comes in the recipient filed. IMHO the older format where we could reply to the list was better. Any expanations for this new behaviour would be gratefully appreciated. shanker From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 09:33:08 2000 Received: from mail.zeenext.com (unknown [203.197.173.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D0583829E for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from TopGun (ppp101-111.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.101.111]) by mail.zeenext.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA01462 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:58:08 +0530 Message-ID: <005001bf8ea5$595d54a0$6f65c5cb@TopGun> From: "Shanker R Swaminathan" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:51:49 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/98 That is an unfair attack. Most of the students (including me ) who started on Linux with the first PCQ Linux CD played around with Linux because of it's Unix'ness . it was the only way we could come to grips with Unix without having to be extraordinarily rich enough to own a Unix system, or have relatives with them. Even today - Linux is amendable to normal Unix programming methods and is treated as a normal Unix NOT as Linux by most programmers I know of. Just how is the average guy on the road to get acces to a Unix such as Solaris or HP-UX ? Can you , by any stretch of the imagination call an IRIX system suitable for a home? ( Accepted , it is one of , if not the best for server/workstation systems) I feel anything generic to Unix like systems such as security cannot be called un-Linux! As such IMHO These topics carry a lot of relevance on these lists. shanker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atul Chitnis" To: "Linux India General" Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [LIG] Re: Re :[OT] Hackers > I dropped out of LI/LIH because of such "discussions". Looks like there is > no point sticking around here - some people are totally incapable of > sticking to a list topic. > > I have stopped recommending this list to anyone for any kind of sane > discussions about Linux in India. Everyone here is too hung up about > positioning themselves as the ultimate autority on > VSNL/hacking/cracking/licenses/etc. The name Linux does not figure > anywhere. > > While you guys are going around with your points-counterpoints, may I > point out how utterly worthless your "discussion" is in the context of > this list, and that you are making this a completely uncomfortable place > to be in? > > You are simply hijacking a valiant effort at spreading Linux in India for > your own purposes. And you are doing it over and over and over again. > > These discussions have nothing to do with Linux in India. > > I am out of here to try my luck elsewhere. > > Atul > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) > Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com > Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 > -------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out > http://lists.linux-india.org/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 09:44:47 2000 Received: from mail.zeenext.com (unknown [203.197.173.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8653831C for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from TopGun (ppp101-111.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [203.197.101.111]) by mail.zeenext.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA10298 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:09:35 +0530 Message-ID: <005201bf8ea6$f2d31ba0$6f65c5cb@TopGun> From: "Shanker R Swaminathan" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:20:21 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-Archive-Number: 200003/99 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "Shanker R Swaminathan" Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [LIG] Re: Re :[OT] Hackers > > With vsnl server the things might be slightly better, but people at dot > server in nagpur did not knew what is pop lock, before 6 months or so. > About 2 years back when I found that ls -alR / and cat /etc/passwd commands > are working freely with all vsnl server I informed all (about 16 or so) the > server admin of vsnl and dot. Lots more was possible then. The menu script then used to run in cooked mode , so a simple ^z was enough to suspend it and return to a priviliged prompt. VSNL has mended it's ways but DOT is yet to learn anything. Thankfully glaring errors like these are long past! > I recevied only two reply from bom3 and pn01 server. In fact one of the > Digital's Engineer ( they are providing softaware support to vsnl /dot) has > told me that they have advised all server admin, not to check root mail as > it may have some exploit code. All too right. VSNL calcutta saw it fit to inform us that they do NOT monitor *any* mailbox other then the one on giascl01. However , they seem to be getting mail forwarded to the helpdesk so all our queries get attended to. > >around with the VSNL systems doesn't give you the right to go around doing > >so. There are perhaps hundreds of Servers which are similarly configfured > >servers in University depts around India ( Similar to mine) , where > students > >have access . If everyoneof them starts practicing his /her talents on the > >VSNL servers , nobody else would get any work done. > > > This is the reason why Indian sites are being defaced by hackers from the > neibhouring countries, hackers are having field day, and bringing shame to > we Indians. 1. what has this got to do with VSNL. They have set many things right. - more than can be said for others. How many of the others have been informed- by clued people? 2. If you have information that something is not OK then yell , scream etc. to the concerned people from the TOP. Action DOES get taken.The sites you are talking about got defaced due to the negligence of the sysadmins concerned. It's nothing new- or specific to India. Happens everywhere. If you find anthing amiss, report it. However , if you start defending wannabe crackers in the name of rousing everyone's attention , I beg to disagree.IMHO , morally we put ourselves hopelessly in the wrong and come down to their level. ( The crackers'). > It could be partially true in case of vsnl, but situation with dot is worst. > The server admin are the people drawn from the telephone department and do > not know ABC of *nix. They are a hopeless lot, from our experience too. However, The VSNL servers DO seem to be robust from the outside , as much as any server on the net can be, now-a-days. > If people would have responded to critisism of their server / software then > bugtraq would have never existed. Posts are made to Bugtraq after it has been seen that a vendor has nopt responded or after a fix is found. All these presuppose that the vendor is *always* informed. I doubt that in this case sibiyan had gone around informing all the concerned in VSNL , from the top.( Correct me if I am wrong!) > I really wonder why discussion on exploits is being slammed every time. Is > this list only for video/sound/mail problem only. No wonder bugtraq has > membership of more than 20,000 and linux-india only 1000. Discussions on security are welcome- Not on Boasts of alleged exploits without fixes. ONLY Those have been flamed. Check the archives on LI, now LIH( In my knowledge at least) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 09:51:10 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477FB380A1 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11050; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:50:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:50:54 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: List Charter again Message-ID: <20000315095054.A10979@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 05:40:14PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/100 On Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 05:40:14PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: Atul, > I dropped out of LI/LIH because of such "discussions". Looks like there is > no point sticking around here - some people are totally incapable of > sticking to a list topic. > > I have stopped recommending this list to anyone for any kind of sane > discussions about Linux in India. Everyone here is too hung up about > positioning themselves as the ultimate autority on > VSNL/hacking/cracking/licenses/etc. The name Linux does not figure > anywhere. While these are not directly related to Linux, they are connected - which is why they get redirected to -general. I don't recommend that you recommend people to -general. Because, by definition, the topics that get discussed here are only loosely related to Linux in India. -general is for things that don't fit anywhere else. But if you're suggesting that some of the more "heated" debates go to other places, I agree. The advocacy types should move to -advocacy. My next mail and follow ups on GPL will be on -advocacy. To some extent, passion and chaos are an integral part of the Linux culture. It's hard to get rid of it on a public mailing list. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 10:04:28 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E31382C5 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21909; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:15:30 +0530 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:15:30 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Shanker R Swaminathan Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers In-Reply-To: <005001bf8ea5$595d54a0$6f65c5cb@TopGun> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/101 On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Shanker R Swaminathan wrote: > That is an unfair attack. Most of the students (including me ) who started > on Linux with the first PCQ Linux CD played around with Linux because of You are way off-track. I am not saying you shouldn't experiment. But the discussions here had nothing to do with Linux or even hacking, they were "positioning". For a more detailed explanation, read http://lists.linux-india.org/archive/linux-india-general/200003/msg00052.html and http://lists.linux-india.org/archive/linux-india-general/200003/msg00056.html This list is about spreading Linux in India. Try to see things from the perspective of this list's topic, rather than from your current perspective. What have hacking/cracking/GPL-vs-BSD topics have to do with Linux in India? Nothing. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 10:08:17 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFA8380DE for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19124 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRH6DK00.132 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:08:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38CFD188.BAF50461@netscape.com> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:08:08 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: new list format Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/102 Shanker R Swaminathan proclaimed: > Why is the format of the message so different now? The reply to filed now > cointains the address of the original sender, so , whenever i try to reply > from my mailer, the address of the sender and NOT the list comes in the > recipient filed. IMHO the older format where we could reply to the list was > better. Get a REAL MUA. ;-) See http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html for info on why setting 'Reply-To' is considered to be bad. I am assuming that people who subscribe to LIG are experienced users who are clueful enough to reply to the group and edit the headers when replying. That is why LIG does not set the 'Reply-To'. Thaths -- "Be patient, son. A watched car never crashes." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 10:34:34 2000 Received: from eth.net (pop3.eth.net [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414A1380EC for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:34:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.227]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 15 Mar 2000 23:58:56 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06761; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:02:12 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:02:12 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Message-ID: <20000316000212.A6751@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 05:40:14PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/103 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >I dropped out of LI/LIH because of such "discussions". Looks like there is >no point sticking around here - some people are totally incapable of >sticking to a list topic. Phew ... ~I~ for one have taken the thread offlist as far as possible - even replied to Doc Tarique's (rather unfortunate) flame offlist. The topic is closed from my side - no point in keeping on saying the same thing - cracking a box is bad, no matter whether this is because ports are left open, admins are too clueless to do their job ...... Anyone has a beef with this statement - pls mail me offlist. >positioning themselves as the ultimate autority on >VSNL/hacking/cracking/licenses/etc. The name Linux does not figure I have never positioned myself as an "absolute authority" on spammers / crackers ... and if I have inadvertently given that impression - sorry. I know dozens of ppl (on news.admin.net-abuse.[email|usenet] who are far better at this ...... >this list, and that you are making this a completely uncomfortable place >to be in? Just the fact that it's better to stop people boasting about h4x0ring on the list - in case it reinforces the (rather common) opinion that linuxers are all hackers / crackers etc .. >You are simply hijacking a valiant effort at spreading Linux in India for >your own purposes. And you are doing it over and over and over again. No. Merely trying to keep linux india from getting smeared with the image of "cracker forum". If you don't want that - well, fine ......... replies > r.suresh@mailandnews.com flames > /dev/null -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Computer programmers do it byte by byte. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 10:34:40 2000 Received: from eth.net (pop3.eth.net [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B57F381A6 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:34:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.227]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:01:40 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06775; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:05:01 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:05:01 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Shanker R Swaminathan Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: new list format Message-ID: <20000316000501.B6751@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Shanker R Swaminathan , linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005101bf8ea5$5c690e00$6f65c5cb@TopGun>; from csewhiz@cal2.vsnl.net.in on Wed, Mar 15, 2000 at 10:59:43PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/104 Shanker R Swaminathan saw fit to inform LI that: >Why is the format of the message so different now? The reply to filed now >cointains the address of the original sender, so , whenever i try to reply It is better this way - to eliminate the junk traffic on this list, it's better if replies are sent to the sender. If reply-to: is set to the list, all the junk comes right back to the list - and I've been on a list where some guy saw a post from his long lost girlfriend and sent her a love letter, cc'ing the whole list. Better this way - when a guy has to cc LI, he'll first think "Is this worth cc'ing?" hint: There's always reply all :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Computer programmers do it byte by byte. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 15 18:39:17 2000 Received: from nagpur.dot.net.in (nagpur.vsnl.net.in [202.54.50.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF3B38186 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 18:39:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from outsider ([203.197.39.46]) by nagpur.dot.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19565 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:11:30 +0530 (IST) Message-ID: <002f01bf8f1f$43a1d260$0101a8c0@outsider.sanisoft> Reply-To: "SANIsoft" From: "SANIsoft" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re :[OT] Hackers Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 08:08:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200003/105 >Phew ... ~I~ for one have taken the thread offlist as far as possible - >even replied to Doc Tarique's (rather unfortunate) flame offlist. Now that you have it here again - I repeat - your language to the Kiddie was abusive and offensive You could have 1) Mailed him off list 2) Mailed in strong words without derogatory references to intelligence, anatomy and assumption of authority And yes given the level of service by DOT knowing how to root helps I never had to do this with any of my other ISPs ! Tarique ======================================= Creating not just Web Sites but Web Applications http://www.sanisoft-india.com Search Engine for Nagpur http://nagpurcity.net ======================================= From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 02:55:22 2000 Received: from web208.mail.yahoo.com (web208.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.108]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 116DA38064 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 19990 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Mar 2000 10:55:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20000316105514.19989.qmail@web208.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.132] by web208.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:55:14 PST Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:55:14 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: [irrelevent] CoffeeHOW-To To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/106 Hi, I browsing for some other info and came across this: http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/Coffee.html This has _gotta_ be the heights! Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 05:36:34 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6AA63805C for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 05:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from default (210.214.53.254) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.047) id 38CEDD1500036B4B for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:34:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01bf8f4b$cb0b5560$f201a8c0@default> From: "Mukund Deshmukh" To: "Linux India General" Subject: [OT] Hackers Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:20:30 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Archive-Number: 200003/107 >1. what has this got to do with VSNL. They have set many things right. - >more than can be said for others. How many of the others have been informed- >by clued people? >2. If you have information that something is not OK then yell , scream etc. >to the concerned people from the TOP. Action DOES get taken.The sites you >are talking about got defaced due to the negligence of the sysadmins >concerned. It's nothing new- or specific to India. Happens everywhere. If >you find anthing amiss, report it. However , if you start defending wannabe >crackers in the name of rousing everyone's attention , I beg to >disagree.IMHO , morally we put ourselves hopelessly in the wrong and come >down to their level. ( The crackers'). vsnl and dot are the premier ISP and gate way of India, one can only imagine plight of other server. And how can we think of e-commerce with such mess around? Defacing of sight is real shame on the country. Have you heard nasa, yahoo, altavista, aol, ..... the list is endless, site is defaced any time? >> It could be partially true in case of vsnl, but situation with dot is >worst. >> The server admin are the people drawn from the telephone department and do >> not know ABC of *nix. >They are a hopeless lot, from our experience too. However, The VSNL servers >DO seem to be robust from the outside , as much as any server on the net can >be, now-a-days. Yes they are from out side, but once you are inside, the whole lot opens up. And getting inside with a legal account will cost only 1500 bucks or may be even less. Off late vsnl has also stared on line registration, which can hide the identity of a valid user too. > >> If people would have responded to critisism of their server / software >then >> bugtraq would have never existed. > >Posts are made to Bugtraq after it has been seen that a vendor has nopt >responded or after a fix is found. All these presuppose that the vendor is >*always* informed. I doubt that in this case sibiyan had gone around >informing all the concerned in VSNL , from the top.( Correct me if I am >wrong!) > > >> I really wonder why discussion on exploits is being slammed every time. Is >> this list only for video/sound/mail problem only. No wonder bugtraq has >> membership of more than 20,000 and linux-india only 1000. > >Discussions on security are welcome- Not on Boasts of alleged exploits >without fixes. ONLY Those have been flamed. Check the archives on LI, now >LIH( In my knowledge at least) On the other had you check the archive and find out what is the percentage of mail related to Linux security. BTW I want to take off heat of general list too, mail me directly if you want. Best Regards, M.S.Deshmukh, Director. Beta Computronics Pvt. Ltd. Web Site - http://betacomp.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 20:48:22 2000 Received: from web207.mail.yahoo.com (web207.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.107]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0E4CE38053 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 19051 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2000 04:48:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20000317044810.19050.qmail@web207.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.30] by web207.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:48:10 PST Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:48:10 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: [irrelevent] CoffeeHOW-To To: dceeecor@dte.vsnl.neet.in Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/108 My dear fellow, 1. I'm not deaf so there's no need to shout. 2. I wasn't saying it wasn't possible - merely funny. 3. I posted to LIG. 'G' stands for _general_ . As I understand it, correct me if I am wrong, miscellaneous topics legitimately fall into the purview of this list. Technical matters can be discussed in LIH or LIP. 4. Linux is supposed to be _fun_. Where's _your_ sense of fun? 5. You have every right to object to my posting -- but none to be rude. You obviously are completely uncultured and have no sense of proportion. I have no interest in people of that kind, hence I am redirecting your mails to /dev/null. If you are going to act like a boor you can do it in public. Have a nice day, Biju --- dceeecor@dte.vsnl.net.in wrote: > IT'S POSSIBLE AND IT'S BEEN DONE SO BUGGER OFF AND > NEXT TIME POST SOMETHING MORE TECHNICAL IN NATURE. > THIS IS A *SERIOUS PLACE*. > > ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 21:31:41 2000 Received: from svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (unknown [206.103.11.137]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D16EF38053 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:31:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from iname.com ([172.18.10.102]) by svrsdfbldg.tcscal.co.in (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.6 (890.1 7-16-1999)) with SMTP id 652568A5.001E8BB5; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:03:51 +0530 Message-ID: <38D1C359.2B9A2BEF@iname.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:02:09 +0530 From: Robin Chatterjee Organization: Tata Consultancy Services X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Please share your linux experiences.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/109 Atul -why not do something about it rather than just moan ..... for example your current message has no information content at all about linux in india ... I had send the best contribution I could to your previous mail and had asked other people to give examples of linux usage in india("My experiments with linux") . No one else sent anything. Including yourself...I would have expected you to be able to generate the most content. So I'm broadcasting this appeal again to everyone on this list. Please share your experiences , pitfalls, and also how to sell linux in the indian scenario ( or does that fall under linux advocacy ?) Cheerio Robin All flames welcome ... (Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me :) ) Atul Chitnis wrote: > I dropped out of LI/LIH because of such "discussions". Looks like there is > no point sticking around here - some people are totally incapable of > sticking to a list topic. > > I have stopped recommending this list to anyone for any kind of sane > discussions about Linux in India. Everyone here is too hung up about > positioning themselves as the ultimate autority on > VSNL/hacking/cracking/licenses/etc. The name Linux does not figure > anywhere. > > While you guys are going around with your points-counterpoints, may I > point out how utterly worthless your "discussion" is in the context of > this list, and that you are making this a completely uncomfortable place > to be in? > > You are simply hijacking a valiant effort at spreading Linux in India for > your own purposes. And you are doing it over and over and over again. > > These discussions have nothing to do with Linux in India. > > > I am out of here to try my luck elsewhere. > > Atul > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) > Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com > Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 > -------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out > http://lists.linux-india.org/ -- _END_ Robin S Chatterjee Yahoo pager ID -Robinchatterjee mailto:robinsc@iname.com mailto:robins_chatterjee@tcscal.co.in FAX 1-(815)550-6171 Robin's Poetry Pages http://www.geocities.com/singerosongs Robin's Perl Pages http://www.geocities.com/robinchatterjee From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 21:33:32 2000 Received: from iimk.ren.nic.in (iimk.ren.nic.in [164.100.247.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B672F38053 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by iimk.ren.nic.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15980; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:19:44 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: iimk.ren.nic.in: nobody set sender to nikk using -f From: "Nikhil Datta" To: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:49:44 +0000 (GMT) Organization: IIM, Kozhikode User X-Mailer: ObsidianSystems-OcsEmail1-0-28p1 brewed at www.obsidian.co.za Reply-To: nikhild@usa.net Message-ID: <95326858415976-17101915976nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Subject: Interesting notice in REC Calicut X-Archive-Number: 200003/110 Seen put up on the notice board in all REC Calicut hostels. Attn : All Users of the Main COmputer Center All users having personal files on the Win 95/98/NT systems in the Main Computer Center are requested to backup their files. All the machines will be reformatted to use Grahical Applications on the Linux O/S. signed.. Head Of Dept.... blah blah.. encouraging? A sign of things to come ? I gave a long talk on Linux at the REC last month, and the response I got was extremely encouraging (genuine interest and participation by a fairly large crowd..) What I did notice there however, was that no faculty members turned up.. maybe that's where there some concerted efforts at education needs to be made.. nikk Pain is a thing of the mind. The mind can be controlled. -- Spock, "Operation -- Annihilate!" stardate 3287.2 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 22:16:16 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.227]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326253813C for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01417 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:44:50 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:44:50 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <38D1C359.2B9A2BEF@iname.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/111 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Robin Chatterjee wrote: > Atul -why not do something about it rather than just moan ..... > for example your current message has no information content at all about linux > in india ... Asking me to "do something about it rather than just moan" is about as insensitive as one can get. This is the first time in half a decade that anyone has ever accused me of doing nothing when it comes to Linux. I have been battling to get people to discuss Linux here rather than their own personal pet peeves, but am getting nowhere. You complaint about no one replying to you underlines this issue. All the replies I got to my complaint basically tried to justify their stands by saying that "xxxx is related to Linux" (replace xxxx with your personal pet peeve). When I got involved with these lists, I was hoping for more than just headless chicken running around in circles. I was hoping for discussions about people *doing* something to spread the word and getting more people involved. Instead, all I see is messages about script kiddies or someone's interpretation of some license or the other. If it isn't that, they play pseudo administrator, while the real admins sit on their hands and even encourage non-Linux discussions. I believe that I (in my personal capacity) have been (and am) doing my bit for wider adoption of Linux in India. But this list isn't. And LIH is running in circles doing the "SiS 6xxx" dance. If it isn't Linux, I am not here. My "mission" (if one can call that) is spreading Linux, NOT saving mailing lists from themselves. I encourage people to get involved. But one can only lead a horse to the water - one can't make it drink. Atul p.s. The reason why no one replied to your message is probably because no one noticed it in the flood of off-topic messages. I sure didn't - there is so little Linux content here that I am not very interested in reading this list on a priority basis. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 16 22:24:25 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.227]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B7438170 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:24:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01431 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:56:12 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:56:12 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Interesting notice in REC Calicut In-Reply-To: <95326858415976-17101915976nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/112 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Nikhil Datta wrote: > Seen put up on the notice board in all REC Calicut hostels. > > Attn : All Users of the Main COmputer Center > > All users having personal files on the Win 95/98/NT systems in the Main Computer Center are requested to backup their files. All the machines will be reformatted to use Grahical Applications on the Linux O/S. > > signed.. > Head Of Dept.... Way to go, REC Kozhikode! Can we have that notice engraved on stone and passed around the country? > What I did notice there however, was that no faculty members turned > up.. maybe that's where there some concerted efforts at education > needs to be made.. Yes, you hit the nail on the head, and boy did it hurt! ;-) Linux adoption has always been largely at the actual user level. By this I mean that people who try it, use it. But the top honchos (read "management") typically don't buy in because they are out of the loop altogether. This does not apply to educational institutions alone. Many sysadmins the world over deploy Linux "on the sly" with fabulous results. But there is a "failure to communicate" when it comes to letting management know the results. Someone needs to quantify the results, do a neat writeup and a presentation, then beard the lion in his den. However, we all know that techies don't necessarily qualify as presenters, and maybe *that's* the issue. An ideal situation would be a set of templates (reports, presentations) where the sysadmins can plug in their figures and findings without having to take night-classes in management. Such templates would necessarily have to be written by management-savvy people, because only they truely understand the mystical jabberwocky lingo used by the suits. This is a job for Batman...er...us. It needs more discussion and theorizing, but should be doable. Anyone game? Atul p.s. Thanks Nikk - this is the first genuine "matching the list topic" message I have seen here in a while. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 00:41:59 2000 Received: from cal.vsnl.net.in (cal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.9.25]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B45038158 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from indradg.cal.vsnl.net.in (ppp53-114.pppcal.vsnl.net.in [202.54.53.114]) by cal.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA17349; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:47:44 +0530 (IST) Message-Id: <200003170917.OAA17349@cal.vsnl.net.in> From: "Indranil Das Gupta" To: "Atul Chitnis" Cc: "Linux India General" Subject: Issues with commercial installations and advocacy [was ---> Re: Interesting notice in REC Calicut Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:16:57 +0530 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/113 Hi Atul & others, Here in Calcutta & around the deployment of Linux servers is going up quite steadily (I am trying to grab some actual stats)... I am truly interested (as distinctly separate from from my commercial interest ;) to see the count of Linux installations go up... These days I sometimes end up facing clients who spell out quite clearly that they WANT Linux as the OS for their production server in question. They are absolutely convinced that Linux is the better choice for their end-product/solution/setup. At one of the last couple of places it was absolute No-No to Win NT and at the other it was a question between Solaris on a SparcServer 5 or Linux on a Dual Xeon. The fun usually begins after the server has been custom configured and handed over to the client. Most of the jobs I do are covered with a 60 days full-support clause including on-site as an when required. Usually I found this to translate into ~3 on-site visits and the rest can usually be handled via phone/email. In places, where they do have an experienced admin (read *nix), the things usually go ok with a little hint here, a nudge there. BUT the problem starts when it is client who steadfastly insists only on Linux, while happens to be a MCSE/MCSD and believe they are qualified to handle any server. Their *nix skills are often limited to -- "oh, I worked on Unix when I was at xxxx three years ago... I know how to use commands ls, rm, kill etc. so Linux being an Unix clone I shouldn't have any problem...right?" or have the average "skill-level" of the people who did a course at any PTI (private training institutes...read NIIT/Aptech). After the 60-day support clause runs out, they still expect us to rush on-site at any minor/major hiccups. For example, it can be as simple as instead of using /usr/local/apache/htdocs as the WWW root (as specified by us) they will use /home/httpd and argue that SRM.CONF has been misconfigured by us!!!!! ;) When we try to explain this over mail, a certain of lack of basic understanding of techie english come into play from the client's part, resulting in problems with communication. What do you (anyone for that matter) do in such case?? Don't deal with clients like these...? Apart from the money aspect, the idea of one more server installation sometimes acts as a stronger incentive/bait (referring to the advocacy angle) to take on the job. I expect such situations are not unknown to people on this list... I agree that these are stumbling blocks that we would have to overcome in our quest to even greater acceptance of Linux in India. In that context I am interested to know how to deal with situations like these? --Indra. ---------- > From: Atul Chitnis > > > However, we all know that techies don't necessarily qualify as presenters, > and maybe *that's* the issue. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 01:27:50 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C90DA38068 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-187-16.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.187.16]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20822 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:45:08 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02777 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:09:34 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:09:34 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317150934.D2312@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:44:50AM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/114 Hi, Atul Chitnis typed: > When I got involved with these lists, I was hoping for more than just > headless chicken running around in circles. I was hoping for discussions > about people *doing* something to spread the word and getting more people > involved. Instead, all I see is messages about script kiddies or someone's > interpretation of some license or the other. If it isn't that, they play > pseudo administrator, while the real admins sit on their hands and even > encourage non-Linux discussions. I don't understand what you have against the licensing discussions. They, IMHO, definitely belong in LIG. They are definitely pertinent to Linux, and they are definitely helping the Linux India community. Suppose I write some software tomorrow, and am wondering what to license my code under - I will surely look through every single message of all the licensing threads which have taken place here - and they will help me make my decision. I don't think you are justified in saying that they are detrimental to promoting the use of Linux in India. > I believe that I (in my personal capacity) have been (and am) doing my bit > for wider adoption of Linux in India. > But this list isn't. And LIH is running in circles doing the "SiS 6xxx" > dance. The name "linux-india-help" itself suggests that LIH is a forum where people can put forward queries, and other considerate people answer them, thus promoting Linux in India. If most of the problems are with "SiS 6xxx" cards, then there's not a thing anybody can do about it. If you say "SiS users go to hell" or other similar remarks, you are actually *demoting* the use of Linux in India. I fail to understand the point in your statement that LIH is doing the SiS dance. What kind of messages do you expect from a help mailing list? Doing the SiS dance is neither the fault of the SiS card owners, and nor is it the fault of the kind souls who answer with "refer the archives", because all they are doing is helping somebody use Linux better, (promoting the use of Linux in India), which is the sole purpose of LI-Help. Tell me, what is your ideal picture of the LIH mailing list? > If it isn't Linux, I am not here. If queries regarding hardware which is not supported under Linux, are not `Linux' then what is? LIG, is linux-india-general, which is for topics which are in some way related to Linux. If licensing issues are not Linux (general), then what is? > My "mission" (if one can call that) is spreading Linux, NOT saving > mailing lists from themselves. I encourage people to get involved. > But one can only lead a horse to the water - one can't make it > drink. A large percentage of your messages in the recent past have been pure cribs about the mailing lists, about the quality of messages, about not sticking to Linux.. whatever. Your quitting LI (now LIH) just because of ``such discussions'' itself shows that you don't care too much for the Linux India community - as in helping out people on the mailing list who have genuine problems. If you don't like those dicussions, junk them to /dev/null! Don't send a ton of messages just to crib about `certain people' carrying on `certain discussions' which you don't particularly care for. Don't mistake me here - my interests are not trollish, if you feel it is, feel free to ignore this post. -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - REPORTERS do it for the sensation it causes From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 02:24:47 2000 Received: from eth.net (pop3.eth.net [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B61C3802E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.31]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:53:26 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00714; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:56:46 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:56:46 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Mukund Deshmukh Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: [OT] Hackers Message-ID: <20000317155646.C635@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Mukund Deshmukh , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000e01bf8f4b$cb0b5560$f201a8c0@default>; from betacomp@nagpur.dot.net.in on Thu, Mar 16, 2000 at 10:20:30AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/115 Mukund Deshmukh saw fit to inform LI that: >Defacing of sight is real shame on the country. Have you heard nasa, yahoo, >altavista, aol, ..... the list is endless, site is defaced any time? FWIW Yahoo has been taken down by TFN / Stacheldracht ... NASA, FBI etc have been hacked and defaced multiple times AOL servers ~have~ been crashed by various malicious users VSNL is not alone in this respect. Plus they have a new policy now - router blocking open relay servers which broadcast spam / spamming websites (when a server owner sends out spam promoting his site). -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Algol-60 surely must be regarded as the most important programming language yet developed. -- T. Cheatham From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 02:24:55 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9ED3805E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:24:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.31]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:50:23 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00698; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:53:29 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:53:29 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Indranil Das Gupta Cc: Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Subject: Re: Issues with commercial installations and advocacy [was ---> Re: Interesting notice in REC Calicut Message-ID: <20000317155329.B635@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Indranil Das Gupta , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200003170917.OAA17349@cal.vsnl.net.in>; from indradg@cal.vsnl.net.in on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 02:16:57PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/116 Indranil Das Gupta saw fit to inform LI that: >their end-product/solution/setup. At one of the last couple of places it was absolute No-No to Win NT and at the other >it was a question between Solaris on a SparcServer 5 or Linux on a Dual Xeon. Linux has become, shall we say, fashionable - for all the wrong reasons, if what you say is true. [It ~is~ true - I've seen it happen myself] >have any problem...right?" or have the average "skill-level" of the people who did a course at any PTI (private >training institutes...read NIIT/Aptech). ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't let me get started on this - you've got hold of one of my pet peeves :) >/home/httpd and argue that SRM.CONF has been misconfigured by us!!!!! ;) When we try to explain this over mail, a >certain of lack of basic understanding of techie english come into play from the client's part, resulting in problems >with communication. ... and I set up a server for a client, and am asked to run over there every few days for something or the other. In one ~really~ horrendous case, the moron who called himself a sysadmin there (basically an e-mail checker and word / excel typist) got a copy of unix for dummies, logged into the server and STARTED PRACTICING !!!! Needless to say - he eventually got around to doing ~/public_html> rm -rf * :( $%$^$#^#%^#%@^ The next day, I get a frantic mail saying "Hai. Ur server is not working. Pleas rectify ASAP". Phew, luckily I had a backup of their site handy and could restore it after a while (marathon ftp upload, reconfigure cgi scripts ........) :( >What do you (anyone for that matter) do in such case?? Don't deal with clients like these...? Apart from the money >aspect, the idea of one more server installation sometimes acts as a stronger incentive/bait (referring to the advocacy >angle) to take on the job. Don't give them passwords - contract to maintain the server yourself. >> However, we all know that techies don't necessarily qualify as presenters, >> and maybe *that's* the issue. That ~can~ be remedied. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Algol-60 surely must be regarded as the most important programming language yet developed. -- T. Cheatham From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 02:38:20 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A14938106 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 02:37:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.31]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:05:43 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00789; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:09:04 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:09:04 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Interesting notice in REC Calicut Message-ID: <20000317160904.E635@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:56:12AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/117 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >Way to go, REC Kozhikode! Can we have that notice engraved on stone and >passed around the country? I know literally dozens of engineering / MCA colleges around here, which persist with an ancient SCO or Solaris installation to teach unix. We at ILUG-Hyd ~are~ trying to make them adopt linux, but are often greeted with the answer that it is "Out of Syllabus, only Unix is specified by the university" ... and that for ls, cp, rm .... and shell scripting !?!?!?! FWIW, the most popular thing being done around (mainly thanks to Doc Partha) is to show them how to set up diskless nodes using old, trashed 8088 boxen and serial cables, running on a 486 box with redhat 5.2 (say). >Such templates would necessarily have to be written by management-savvy >people, because only they truely understand the mystical jabberwocky lingo >used by the suits. God knows I am NOT a techie (programming at least - NO, mail admin - OK). However, I ~do~ have an MBA in HR and reasonable English skills. If someone is starting a team - I volunteer. >This is a job for Batman...er...us. It needs more discussion and >theorizing, but should be doable. Would the above be feasible - esp for the chota-mota colleges around the country which can't afford modern PCs for each student? -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Algol-60 surely must be regarded as the most important programming language yet developed. -- T. Cheatham From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 04:48:00 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D633809F for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01544 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:19:51 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:19:51 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000317150934.D2312@india.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/118 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Mrinal Kalakrishnan wrote: > I don't understand what you have against the licensing discussions. I do not have anything against licensing issues - I have something against the way they are being discussed. Have you seen even one of the people in those "discussions" give an inch? All we achieved with those discussion is that Manoj refuses to participate in a discussion that Arun takes part in, every participant gets down to personal levels, etc. > The name "linux-india-help" itself suggests that LIH is a forum where > people can put forward queries, and other considerate people answer > them, thus promoting Linux in India. If most of the problems are with > "SiS 6xxx" cards, then there's not a thing anybody can do about it. If > you say "SiS users go to hell" or other similar remarks, you are > actually *demoting* the use of Linux in India. You will find this hard to understand since you have not been part of the background discussions in the past, but I had suggested resource lists to be put up on the website, pointing to commeon questions and answers given. This was deemed as "unnecessary" because such resources already exist (which is untrue - they do not address even half of what people are asking). Unless such resources are created, people will keep asking the same questions! > Tell me, what is your ideal picture of the LIH > mailing list? Thank you for asking. My ideal picture of the LIH list is one of a *source* of information that is then culled and indexed in a user-friendly way (not "refer the archives") so that people can *use* this knowledge. One factor that troubles me is the quality of answers - many times, people give different answers, but only one or two are actually the correct ones. A person going through the archive has no way of knowing *which* is the correct one. My ideal picture of the list is that it is part of a community, rather than an end within itself (which it is definitely now). > > > If it isn't Linux, I am not here. > > If queries regarding hardware which is not supported under Linux, are > not `Linux' then what is? I did not say such queries are non-Linux. How did you get that impression? > LIG, is linux-india-general, which is for topics which are in some way > related to Linux. If licensing issues are not Linux (general), then > what is? Licensing issues may be part of Linux, but discussions which come to no conclusion and confuse the hell out people (as they are meant to) are definitely not Linux. > A large percentage of your messages in the recent past have been pure > cribs about the mailing lists, about the quality of messages, about > not sticking to Linux.. whatever. Your quitting LI (now LIH) just > because of ``such discussions'' itself shows that you don't care too > much for the Linux India community - as in helping out people on the > mailing list who have genuine problems. If you don't like those > dicussions, junk them to /dev/null! Don't send a ton of messages just > to crib about `certain people' carrying on `certain discussions' which > you don't particularly care for. Should I leave that one unpunished....? Nope. You asked for it. Understand something. I would like to see results. The way the lists are operating today, they are unmanaged chaos and virtually no one takes part. Want proof? Ask Thaths for the member count on all the lists (per list). How many of these people participate? How many lurk? And how many drop out? I dropped out of LIH because my presence there was causing grief to people - because of my connection to PCQ and other factors. It was causing me grief as well, because instead of creating the resources that people actually needed, LIH depends on a few people to continuously give the same answers to the same questions. That is not knowledge or resource building - that is insanity. As Arun said when I dropped out of LIH - "If you don't enjoy it anymore, then it doesn't make sense to stick around" (don't have his actual message here, but it was something to that effect). I haven't dropped out of LIG yet. I said "If it isn't Linux, I am not here". But like many others, I see nothing useful happening here vis a vis Linux - and if this state continues, then why on earth should I waste my time here? > Don't mistake me here - my interests are not trollish, if you feel it > is, feel free to ignore this post. You didn't post your message to have it ignored by me. So why this cop-out? Understand something - all of you. Thanks to the attention Linux is getting worldwide, and especially here in India, you are all actors on a stage, and you have a huge audience watching you. Your behaviour (i.e. ability to discuss something and come to a conclusion) reflects on Linux and the Linux community as a whole. Now go back and read the discussions over the past month or two. Try doing it with an open mind (not with a biased one that is set in "I am right, so Atul must be wrong" mode) - what do you learn? Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 05:51:55 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6465C380F5 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-186-104.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.186.104]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02382 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:08:41 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05641 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:32:32 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:32:32 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317193232.A5479@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 06:19:51PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/119 Hi, Atul Chitnis typed: > I do not have anything against licensing issues - I have something against > the way they are being discussed. Have you seen even one of the people in > those "discussions" give an inch? That is just because they strongly believe in what they are preaching. I don't ever think that anybody can come to conclusions in the licensing issue. It's just each person viewpoint, so they don't really need to `give an inch'. And by all of them giving their side of the argument, I (and probably the average member of this list) have benefitted. I knew virtually *nothing* about licensing issues before this, and now I have gained a lot of knowledge. So I think that such discussions should not be discouraged, as the community has a lot to gain from them. > You will find this hard to understand since you have not been part of the > background discussions in the past, but I had suggested resource lists to > be put up on the website, pointing to commeon questions and answers given. > This was deemed as "unnecessary" because such resources already exist > (which is untrue - they do not address even half of what people are > asking). Unless such resources are created, people will keep asking the > same questions! This was the Linux India FAQ project, if I remember right. Yes, I agree that this project should continue even if such resources already exist. Atleast, there should be a collection of FAQs, which point to the already existing resources. > Thank you for asking. My ideal picture of the LIH list is one of a > *source* of information that is then culled and indexed in a user-friendly > way (not "refer the archives") so that people can *use* this knowledge. OK, this may sound pretty ambitious, but I think the LI FAQ project should be extended - such that every single relevant question and solution on the list should be indexed under various categories of questions, so that instead of people saying `refer the archives', they can start saying - go to http://www.linux-india.org/knowledgebase/, or something of that sort. (Thinking about this, has PHP and MySQL been introduced on the site?) > Understand something. I would like to see results. The way the lists > are operating today, they are unmanaged chaos and virtually no one > takes part. Want proof? Ask Thaths for the member count on all the > lists (per list). How many of these people participate? How many > lurk? And how many drop out? Are you saying that it's chaotic because no one takes part? Come on, you can't expect every person to take part actively on the list. There are more than 1000 members (I presume) on the LIH list, and it is just not possible for all the 1000 to participate. And people most of the times get their questions answered - even if its only "refer the archives". It's not like no one takes part - some people ask questions, and others do answer it. > I dropped out of LIH because my presence there was causing grief to > people - because of my connection to PCQ and other factors. It was > causing me grief as well, because instead of creating the resources > that people actually needed, LIH depends on a few people to > continuously give the same answers to the same questions. That is > not knowledge or resource building - that is insanity. Then you should have done something about it, started off some project which would change the way LIH works. Something that would save the same people from answering the same questions, instead of just dropping out, because your dropping out doesn't help the LI community the least bit. You didn't make your point clear by just dropping out. > Understand something - all of you. Thanks to the attention Linux is > getting worldwide, and especially here in India, you are all actors > on a stage, and you have a huge audience watching you. Your > behaviour (i.e. ability to discuss something and come to a > conclusion) reflects on Linux and the Linux community as a whole. I have no problems with anybody's abilities to discuss things. As for drawing conclusions, it is just not possible to draw conclusions for certain issues, and I think it should be left to the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. You can't expect conclusions to be drawn on the list for every single thread that comes up. -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - CIVIL ENGINEERS do it in the dirt From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 06:28:37 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62143808E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01709; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:54:52 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:54:52 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Mrinal Kalakrishnan Cc: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000317193232.A5479@india.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/120 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Mrinal Kalakrishnan wrote: > And people most of the times get their questions answered - even if > its only "refer the archives". It's not like no one takes part - > some people ask questions, and others do answer it. I am sorry - I disagree. Many people find that their questions are *not* being answered. "Refer the archives" is a cop-out way of saying "we have answered this question a zillion times, don't bother us with this", because the archives are inpenetrable, have no clear pointers to valid answers and the correct answer may have been given siz months back. Do you seriously expect everyone to scan through the thousands of messages in the LI archives trying to find an answer? Have you actually tried this? > Then you should have done something about it, started off some project > which would change the way LIH works. Something that would save the > same people from answering the same questions, instead of just > dropping out, because your dropping out doesn't help the LI community > the least bit. You didn't make your point clear by just dropping out. I wasn't making a point with my dropping out - I didn't even announce it. I just had enough and unsubscribed. Most people in LIH didn't even notice, so what's the problem here? As for "Then you should have done something about it, started off some project which would change the way LIH works." - I tried that many times over. You probably didn't notice. Bangalore IT.COM, Bang!inux, the partitioning of the lists into logical topics, my work with ILUG-Bangalore, my writing, the web site revamp, etc. were all part of those efforts. I had a project running (the PCQ Linux Initiative) long before Linux India ever appeared on the horizon. There are close to a hundred extremely useful articles at http://www.pcquest.com/linux) that address many of the issues faced by people with Linux today - and unlike the LI archives, they are neatly organised, focussed and someone looking for information will easily find it there. PCQ can do only so much (it is not a Linux magazine, after all), so I wanted to be part of something that could provide a superset of information to people, something that helped the spread of Linux. That's why I joined LI, hoping to help make it something that more than just a simple mailing list. I can see this particular effort of mine failing, largely because the people who could really make a difference, are too involved in "I am right and you are wrong" wars that have no meaning. Frankly speaking, I disagree with just about every point stated in the license wars. They are in no way any better than distro wars, because the arguments are not positive ("xxx is good because it allows this") but extremely negative ("yyy is bad because it prohibits this"). Can you blame for being bitter about this? I have been pointing people to LI for a long time (no, this is *not* annecdotal - check any article of mine), but how do you think I feel when I look at http://lists.linux-india.org/archive/linux-india-help/200003 and look at the replies column on the right, almost all of which show "0"? And look at this list - it is scary! A small handful of people arguing negatively about licenses or script-kiddie approaches! For once Nikhil posts something that makes sense in the context of this list, and you, rather than contributing to an obviously useful thread, argue with me about my intentions, but don't have even a line to spare to the thread Nikhil started? What sense does this make? Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 08:56:59 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627453808E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:56:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-185-153.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.153]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28634 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:14:28 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06866 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:38:37 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 22:38:37 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317223837.A6595@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 07:54:52PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/121 Hi, Atul Chitnis typed: > > And people most of the times get their questions answered - even if > > its only "refer the archives". It's not like no one takes part - > > some people ask questions, and others do answer it. > I am sorry - I disagree. Many people find that their questions are *not* > being answered. "Refer the archives" is a cop-out way of saying "we have > answered this question a zillion times, don't bother us with this", > because the archives are inpenetrable, have no clear pointers to valid > answers and the correct answer may have been given siz months back. Do you > seriously expect everyone to scan through the thousands of messages in the > LI archives trying to find an answer? Have you actually tried this? OK, this is exactly the reason why the LI FAQ should get moving - Arun? Has anybody contributed any articles after you started it? > As for "Then you should have done something about it, started off some > project which would change the way LIH works." - I tried that many times > over. You probably didn't notice. Bangalore IT.COM, Bang!inux, the > partitioning of the lists into logical topics, my work with > ILUG-Bangalore, my writing, the web site revamp, etc. were all part of > those efforts. I was speaking with specific reference to the list, not Linux in India. Everybody knows that you have done wonders for Linux in India, but now, what about the list? My point was that if you felt that there was something wrong with the list, and that the way it works should be changed, then you should have done something about it. Instead of quietly dropping out. After all, the list could be called the main Linux resource in India. > Can you blame for being bitter about this? I have been pointing people to > LI for a long time (no, this is *not* annecdotal - check any article of > mine), but how do you think I feel when I look at > http://lists.linux-india.org/archive/linux-india-help/200003 and look at > the replies column on the right, almost all of which show "0"? Don't you feel that this problem can be remedied? And, BTW, if you happened to be on the list, probably the number of zeroes would have been less. If this is the reason why you left the list, well, I don't understand it. -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - HEINZ does it with great relish From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 09:08:16 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A9D38051 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16471 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:08:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:08:08 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317090808.A16325@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 06:19:51PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/122 On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 06:19:51PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > I do not have anything against licensing issues - I have something against > the way they are being discussed. Have you seen even one of the people in > those "discussions" give an inch? All we achieved with those discussion is > that Manoj refuses to participate in a discussion that Arun takes part in, > every participant gets down to personal levels, etc. I don't have anything personal against Manoj or Raj or anyone who holds a different view than mine on the licensing issue. I have participated in threads involving them on LIH. It was very clear at several points in the discussion that we weren't trying to convince each other. We were trying to get most of the other audience, who click on the "I agree" button without reading it, educated about the licensing issues. Sure, things got out of hand at times, but I did my best to stay on the topic, without taking the heat out of the argument. As for what is appropriate for this list, different people have different priorities. You can't look at the list from the point of what is appropriate for linux newbies. What is not getting addressed here is the needs of people who give answers. I or anyone else who spends time hanging out on the list do so because we like it. I will not spend time on LIH if the only kind of questions that get asked there are orderly queries on SiS cards and orderly responses. Linux always has been a OS by the techies for the techies. Lately, corporates have adopted it and made it into a OS by the techies, polished by the distros and good for businesses. While that's great by me as a user, because I stand to benefit from the network effects, I have to concede that such help is no longer a priority for me. Linux has enough momentum from commercial entities to achieve such goals. One example of what I'm trying to say here is the usage of f*** on linux-kernel. From a what is good for Linux user point of view, it should be banned from linux-kernel, because it puts off potential users. But it doesn't work, because doing so would offend the kernel developers, who were at one point, completely volunteer workers. Chaos, I maintain is a part of the Linux culture and is partly responsible for where Linux is today. The BSD guys disliked and shunned Linux exactly for this reason and they lost (in getting a lot of users) and won (in maintaining the order). So if you're just trying to maintain order, why not just use BSD ? Compare the contents of linux-kernel and freebsd-hackers, to get a feel for what I'm trying to say. That said, I agree with some of what you're trying to say - that spreading Linux in India is a great goal and any related discussion is bang on topic. But bringing _focus_ to a _general_ group is self contradictory. Linux users come in too many colors and hues and they get along best when they're talking only technical stuff. Once you're out of that, it's back to socio-political chaos. I wish I could be more succinct. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 09:54:21 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3642838050 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02569 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:26:26 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:26:26 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000317223837.A6595@india.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/123 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Mrinal Kalakrishnan wrote: > I was speaking with specific reference to the list, not Linux in > India. And I am speaking about Linux in India. The list cannot be an end in itself, it must be part of something much larger, much more comprehensive and compelling. > Everybody knows that you have done wonders for Linux in India, > but now, what about the list? I was not trying to pound my drum, if that is what you are referring to. I was answering your question. The activities I mentioned *all* included the list as a focal point, but I will *not* accept the list as the all and everything as far as Linux India is concerned. > My point was that if you felt that there > was something wrong with the list, and that the way it works should be > changed, then you should have done something about it. Instead of > quietly dropping out. After all, the list could be called the main > Linux resource in India. I tried, many times. I mailed people privately, I yelled publicly, I made suggestions, I dropped out once before (that time publicly). The problem seems to be diverging visions - I want to see an organisation building, but others just want to have a good time on the list, but nothing more. The list is only a conduit, the people who contribute to it are the main Linux resource. And these people must be given a structure, a framework on which they can build something comprehensive, so that their work (in the form of answers) is not lost over time. > Don't you feel that this problem can be remedied? And, BTW, if you > happened to be on the list, probably the number of zeroes would have > been less. If this is the reason why you left the list, well, I don't > understand it. Mrinal - no one here is going to accuse me of not practicing what I was preaching. I answered questions till my fingers were sore, but the frustration at having the same question come up the very next day was unbelievable. It was as if I was talking to myself, and I am sure I was not the only one feeling that way. For me there were other deterring factors - the constant sniping at me and the magazine I write for was decidedly unfunny. I and PCQ even got accused of "using LI as a marketing tool". When it got too much, I dropped out. The zeros on the right side will probably increase in number as more and more people who know something drop out or at least stop answering. Even my own collegues at Exocore have given up - long before I did. And stalwarts like Raj Mathur only make weekly appearances these days. Arun, Thaths and others rarely post anything unless it is an absolutely new problem. KD has dropped out altogether. Many, if not all, are also under tremendous pressure at work. Add to this the frustration of not really achieving anything because of the temporary nature of the lists, and the unbelievably low signal-to-noise ratio, and you have a sure recipe for "dropoutitis". It can be argued that Linux no longer needs the "push" since it has now achieved critical mass and is in the commercial domain. Don't kid yourself for a moment - I have seen things come and go faster than you will believe. Sadly, many people will only see the hyped up face of Linux, through commercial entities who couldn't care less if Linux lives or dies, as long as they can make a fast buck off it. Should the glamour fade, they'll drop Linux like a hot brick. The only thing that can save Linux from this fate is a community - one that we should be building. But we aren't. And that is my big complaint. Try and see things beyond the casual list posting/reading that many of you associate with Linux today. There is a huge country here, with massive potential. All we need to do is get them to use Linux, and understand its benefits. Instead, we are sitting here on our haunches, squabbling over licenses and script kiddies, while Microsoft, who follows neither BSD or GPL, happily annexes state after state with "Indianised" Windows speaking Devanagari and Tamil? Do you know that even the NIC, the organisation that has taken on the task of ensuring that all regions are connected and that data flows between them, forces people to use Windows because they insist on the use of routing cards that only have Windows drivers? Do you know that the average Indian (if at all computer savvy) equates computers with Windows, and thinks that "Linux is not for the ordinary people" but only for techies? Or that most people perceive Linux as something wholly segragated from Windows, and that using Linux means complete and absolute data incompatibility? So who do *you* think is going to go out and change all that? Bill Gates? If LI doesn't break its "it's only a list" mindset soon, it will be a washout, a has been, a miserable failure. It will have done more for Microsoft than Bill Gates could, because if Linux fails to click here in India, the TINA ("There is no alternative") concept will be solidly reinforced. To break this "chalta hai" mindset, we need to do far more than provide a platform for people to have flamewars on. We'll need to do a lot more than breed license/distro wars. Many people here have forgotten that this is Linux *INDIA*, and are beginning to equate these lists with any other lists the world over. If that is the case, and if this is to be the fate of LI, then we aren't sharing the same vision, or even the same goals. We are working at cross-purposes. And that, Mrinal, is what I am acertain right now. All indications are that LI's fate is "list-only", with no action outside its electronic boundaries. If that is the case, I am wasting my time here, and if you care about Linux, so are you. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 10:09:18 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6C638050 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02585 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:41:17 +0530 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:41:17 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000317090808.A16325@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/124 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > That said, I agree with some of what you're trying to say - that > spreading Linux in India is a great goal and any related discussion is > bang on topic. But bringing _focus_ to a _general_ group is self > contradictory. Arun, it is *Linux* *India* *General*. That implies at least some focus. and it exists in lieu of linux-india-advocacy, which (when I last checked) had two messages in it. And in any case, "advocacy" is too theortical in nature - what we need is action. > Linux users come in too many colors and hues and they get along best when > they're talking only technical stuff. Sorry, again I disagree. This belief is being propagated to the detriment of Linux. You can do more with Linux as a non-tech person today than anyone could have done during the days when DOS ruled. Linux will succeed when an average person, not knowing much about computers or OSs, can sit before a PC running Linux, and can fire up an application to do his work. And that is already the situation. All we now need to do is let people know. It is my belief that many techies actually do not *want* Linux to be adopted by the masses, with all these non-tech people using it. I suspect that many techies want Linux for themselves. That would explain at least part of the apathy I am experiencing on these lists. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 13:22:42 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8F33804E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16960 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:22:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:22:31 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317132231.A16816@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:26:26PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/125 On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:26:26PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > It can be argued that Linux no longer needs the "push" since it has now > achieved critical mass and is in the commercial domain. Don't kid yourself > for a moment - I have seen things come and go faster than you will > believe. > > Sadly, many people will only see the hyped up face of Linux, through > commercial entities who couldn't care less if Linux lives or dies, as long > as they can make a fast buck off it. Should the glamour fade, they'll drop > Linux like a hot brick. I don't see anything wrong with this picture. If say, some high school student in Bihar writes a new clone of Unix (Laloosux ?) from scratch and if that's better than Linux, I'll just use that instead of Linux. So saving Linux from the evil forces of the world is not my goal. Linux is the OS that suits some of my needs the best today and I use it. I also help out other people whenever I can, because I think that's fun and I benefit from more users using the same OS as me. Beyond that, there isn't anything holy about Linux for me. > > Instead, we are sitting here on our haunches, squabbling over licenses > and script kiddies, while Microsoft, who follows neither BSD or GPL, > happily annexes state after state with "Indianised" Windows speaking > Devanagari and Tamil? I think the main issue here is - you're worrying about the end users who use Linux and I'm talking about developer issues. In your ideal world, there is a constant stream of innovations coming from vacuum and then once in a year, Redhat releases a new version of Linux, which can be used to populate more desktops displacing Windows. But I worry about who is going to pay Alan Cox ? What will motivate people to produce high quality Indian language fonts ? Will commercial software companies use those ? Will Yahoo ever release software for the OS I use ? > > Do you know that even the NIC, the organisation that has taken on the task > of ensuring that all regions are connected and that data flows between > them, forces people to use Windows because they insist on the use of > routing cards that only have Windows drivers? > The problem is not with NIC. The problem is with Linux. The mindset of not having a device driver API that the card manufacturer can write a driver to. That is exactly what I'm arguing about in these GPL/BSD debates. > Do you know that the average Indian (if at all computer savvy) equates > computers with Windows, and thinks that "Linux is not for the ordinary > people" but only for techies? I don't have a problem with that statement as things stand today. I wish it could be different. But that's the truth. It's not something that I'm highly motivated to solve. I'm motivated to solve *my* problems (scratching the itch...). There is plenty of money to be made by solving that problem. > If LI doesn't break its "it's only a list" mindset soon, it will be a > washout, a has been, a miserable failure. It will have done more for > Microsoft than Bill Gates could, because if Linux fails to click here in > India, the TINA ("There is no alternative") concept will be solidly > reinforced. It already is. We're trying to remove an already entrenched leader. > To break this "chalta hai" mindset, we need to do far more than provide a > platform for people to have flamewars on. We'll need to do a lot more than > breed license/distro wars. The flamewars and distrowars are what motivate people to write better software. Remember KDE/Gnome wars ? Remember Tannenbaum/Linus wars ? And witness the healthy competition between the Linux and BSD camps to see how its benefitting both groups. > Many people here have forgotten that this is Linux *INDIA*, and are > beginning to equate these lists with any other lists the world over. > > If that is the case, and if this is to be the fate of LI, then we aren't > sharing the same vision, or even the same goals. We are working at > cross-purposes. While I'm sympathetic to your goals and even agree that it should be the *main* agenda for this newsgroup, other issues that I'm highlighting should not be brushed aside as irrelevant. -Arun PS: Aside - advocacy is not insignificant. Linux won the mid 90s battle against BSD partly because of highly vocal Linux advocates. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 13:51:52 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A99938055 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16994 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:51:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:51:43 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000317135143.B16816@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:41:17PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/126 On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:41:17PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > It is my belief that many techies actually do not *want* Linux to be > adopted by the masses, with all these non-tech people using it. I suspect > that many techies want Linux for themselves. > > That would explain at least part of the apathy I am experiencing on these > lists. It's not that techies don't *want* non-techies to use Linux. A better characterization of the situation is: - Techies care about non-techies due to rational self interest. More non-techies = network effects = more software for techies. - Techies are not highly motivated to make life easy for non-techies. There are various exceptions to this rule. Talking about myself, at one point in my life, I would try and attack every PC I could find and reinstall it with Linux. But I don't care that much about it anymore. If a friend asks me linux questions, I answer it and help 'em out. But I don't want to make it the mission of my life. To sum it up, Linux is no longer a religion. It's just an OS for me. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 18:30:10 2000 Received: from doe.ernet.in (mahavir.doe.ernet.in [202.41.100.93]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F2FE380E3 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from doe.ernet.in (IDENT:vk@[202.41.96.5]) by doe.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA09589 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:06:14 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <38D2EB55.1B00AA1E@doe.ernet.in> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:05:01 +0530 From: Krishnan Venkatachalam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/127 Atul Chitnis wrote: > And I am speaking about Linux in India. The list cannot be an end in > itself, it must be part of something much larger, much more comprehensive > and compelling. Atul, we need to get going on the point that "Maddog" mentioned during his stopover at Delhi that Linux needs a formal organisation in India. How well the organisation itself progresses, I guess only time will tell. > Sadly, many people will only see the hyped up face of Linux, through > commercial entities who couldn't care less if Linux lives or dies, as long > as they can make a fast buck off it. Should the glamour fade, they'll drop > Linux like a hot brick. > > The only thing that can save Linux from this fate is a community - one > that we should be building. > Agree 100%. Perhaps the answer is that the community should perhaps be built on something more than a specific OS alone, and more on the "non restrictive ideas" behind the OS. > Do you know that even the NIC, the organisation that has taken on the task > of ensuring that all regions are connected and that data flows between > them, forces people to use Windows because they insist on the use of > routing cards that only have Windows drivers? NIC for their Ku Band satellite setup uses Hughes DirecPC VSAT technology which is targeted at getting the satellite pipe direct to a "single" remote user on the PC itself. Chances are that Hughes has only "Windows" drivers and hence NIC is restricted to "windows" usage , well, atleast with the Ku Band technology. > To break this "chalta hai" mindset, The bane of India for sure. Krishnan From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 18:40:20 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C3238056 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA12176 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRLJEZ01.FGA for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <38D2EC8B.A519C4C8@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:40:11 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/128 Mrinal Kalakrishnan proclaimed: > I was speaking with specific reference to the list, not Linux in > India. Everybody knows that you have done wonders for Linux in India, > but now, what about the list? My point was that if you felt that there > was something wrong with the list, and that the way it works should be > changed, then you should have done something about it. Instead of > quietly dropping out. I think you are missing Atul's point here. Atul has done quite a bit for the popularization of Linux in India. He is doing quite a bit now. His point was that it is the same old culprits who always step in to do work that needs to get done. No new people taking the initiative. And he seems to be more bothered by the fact that intelligent and experienced linux users are duelling it out here in -general talking about licenses and stuff. This point of Atul's I disagree with. I know these people and IMO they have made contributions to Linux (not just in India). So what if they spend a lot of their time discussing licenses? There are other equally active folks (at lawst count the number of subscribers was 1040) in -help who should be stepping in to do the job. Thaths PS: I have not offered my services in getting this done on purpose. I want more involvement from the community. -- "Just go ahead and sue me! Everybody else does. The average settlement is $68,000." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 18:45:37 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2A938056 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25098 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:43:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRLJNU01.4GI for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:45:30 -0800 Message-ID: <38D2EDCA.85198F3E@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:45:30 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/129 Atul Chitnis proclaimed: > The zeros on the right side will probably increase in number as more and > more people who know something drop out or at least stop answering. Even > my own collegues at Exocore have given up - long before I did. And > stalwarts like Raj Mathur only make weekly appearances these days. Arun, > Thaths and others rarely post anything unless it is an absolutely new > problem. KD has dropped out altogether. *shudder* All these references to burn out and dropping out reminded me of what happened (is happening?) at N. Thaths -- "Just go ahead and sue me! Everybody else does. The average settlement is $68,000." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 18:56:16 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5703806D for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:56:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA25896 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRLK5K01.FGD for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:56:08 -0800 Message-ID: <38D2F047.1D40D0B8@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:56:07 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/130 Krishnan Venkatachalam proclaimed: > Atul Chitnis wrote: > > And I am speaking about Linux in India. The list cannot be an end in > > itself, it must be part of something much larger, much more comprehensive > > and compelling. > Atul, we need to get going on the point that "Maddog" mentioned during his > stopover at Delhi that Linux needs a formal organisation in India. How well > the organisation itself progresses, I guess only time will tell. To these points I say "to each his / her own". Take Linus. He is a great leader in working on a truly distributed effort like the Linux kernel. He enjoys this work. It scratches his itch. And he tends to openly agree that he does not make a great spokesperson (even though the media tends to use him as a boy wonder fighting Goliath) / coordinator for Linux in general. For this you need people like ESR and Maddog. Doing the PR work for Linux is something that scratches their itch. I see a similar situation in LI. Different people have different itches. Some of us want to build a community. And some of us just love the disorganized nature of a mailing list. I see places where friction could exist between these two groups. But as MLK said: "Can't we all get along together". Thaths -- "Just go ahead and sue me! Everybody else does. The average settlement is $68,000." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 18:57:15 2000 Received: from doe.ernet.in (mahavir.doe.ernet.in [202.41.100.93]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC353806D for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from doe.ernet.in (IDENT:vk@[202.41.96.5]) by doe.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11057 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:33:56 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <38D2F1E0.4279AC26@doe.ernet.in> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:32:56 +0530 From: Krishnan Venkatachalam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Byte Mag Article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/131 Here is an article from Byte Magazine that people on this list should find interesting. http://www.byte.com/column/BYT20000307S0001 Krishnan From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 19:39:43 2000 Received: from eth.net (pop3.eth.net [202.9.145.19]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4990A380A2 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.26]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:08:36 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00683; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:03:36 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:03:36 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Arun Sharma , Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318090336.B642@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Arun Sharma , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000317135143.B16816@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 01:51:43PM -0800 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/132 [long post] Arun Sharma saw fit to inform LI that: >> That would explain at least part of the apathy I am experiencing on these >> lists. Not exactly, Atul ... if you see the LUG meetings at ILUG-HYD (or $LUG for that matter) you get newbies asking the same old questions from time to time. In fact, we ~do~ have a pointer to http://www.exocore.com/linux as a footer on our lists. Thaths - as an alternative to reinventing the wheel by writing an LI FAQ by ourselves, there's a pretty neat set of howtos at http://www.local.net/~jgo (starting from installation, mounting drives etc to qmail / procmail / kernel compiling. It also includes stuff like support for Yamaha sound cards). It ~is~ rather old - written some years ago, and customized for RH 5.x (sometimes) - but it is FANTASTIC. The entire set (in html format) can be downloaded as a gzipped tarball - and I'd recommend that you mirror them on LI along with the tarball (or at least link to it). > To sum it up, Linux is no longer a religion. It's just an OS for me. Pretty good summary. Linux is all about freedom of choice - and a viable alternative to Windows. However, there ~is~ one segment that's being neglected - all the schools and colleges in India which currently teach kids DOS, Windoze 3.1 (yeah, still - there's a small course on '95 thrown in) and programming in C, ForTran, COBOL, Pascal ... Their unix knowledge is (often) restricted to ls, cp, rm ... shell scripts on junked up vt100 terminals connected to an equally ancient SCO box. Most local Engineering colleges, several RECs, and FWIW, even BITS Pilani still run a fairly old version of SCO (connecting to it either through telnet from a winbox, or through diskless terminals) I know, my sister's at BITS right now Linux can run far better, given the same set of hardware. Old DOS boxen (even diskless 8088s - which are still around in those colleges) can be made into diskless linux terminals (or even XTerms). HOWTOs are at - http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Diskless-root-NFS-HOWTO.html http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/Diskless-HOWTO.html If they can learn all these, they ~can~ switch to Linux - especially as DOS is, at heart, a cut down version of unix, with astonishingly similar commands (try comparing the syntax of grep on *nix and find on DOS, for example). Further, C, ForTran, COBOL, Pascal etc are ~all~ available for free on Linux. Shell scripts have been known to run on linux, and so have ls, cp, rm etc etc :) If we (tinw - there is no we) target linux at schools and colleges (more aggressively), where most kids get their first exposure to computers, we are going to boost Linux far more than by keeping on targeting the corporates. BTW, ILUG HYD will shortly be contacting several engineering colleges (we contacted a few already, and I have it on good authority that one gent claimed that Linux was "out of syllabus", and they could only use Unix as per university guidelines) ... We are also thinking of writing a HOWTO (a couple of guys from BaaN volunteered to do this at our last meeting) doing an one to one mapping between various stages of a standard BE / B.Tech (Computers) with Linux. Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Contributions welcome :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- In the future, you're going to get computers as prizes in breakfast cereals. You'll throw them out because your house will be littered with them. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 19:47:51 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67D853805E for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA03262 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:20:10 +0530 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:20:10 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000317135143.B16816@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/133 On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > To sum it up, Linux is no longer a religion. It's just an OS for me. Linux in itself is not religion to me, but what is stands for (technology highly suitable to the Indian scenario) *is*. I have several other causes, and they are all linked by this common thread. This includes my objection to the techno-slavery that the Indian software industry is sinking into (in a nutshell - software exports != software development), connectivity for Joe Ramaswamy, etc. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 20:57:49 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.227]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98E4F38066 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 20:57:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03745 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:29:55 +0530 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 10:29:55 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <20000318090336.B642@kcircle.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/134 On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Not exactly, Atul ... if you see the LUG meetings at ILUG-HYD (or $LUG for > that matter) you get newbies asking the same old questions from time to > time. In fact, we ~do~ have a pointer to http://www.exocore.com/linux as > a footer on our lists. Case in point - the ILUGs actually have a pretty good thing going because of the proximity of its members. What is missing is interaction *between* ILUGs, at a national level - no concerted movement and feeling of doing something for one's country. And the other part - what a shame that we had to host that FAQ at Exocore. We couldn't host it at LI because it is partially PCQ specific (and we have had enough accusations on that front), and we cannot host it at PCQ's own site because then we cannot update it. But the Exocore Linux-FAQ is exactly the kind of knowledge building that LI should have been doing. > Thaths - as an alternative to reinventing the wheel by writing an LI FAQ > by ourselves, there's a pretty neat set of howtos at > http://www.local.net/~jgo (starting from installation, mounting drives etc > to qmail / procmail / kernel compiling. It also includes stuff like > support for Yamaha sound cards). Objection - there is no point to republishing stuff already on the web. Notice that many of the questions asked here are not even *addressed* by those FAQs! Show me an FAQ that deals with "names not resolving", "SiS 6xxx", "VSNL", "Satyam", etc. all in one place! > However, there ~is~ one segment that's being neglected - all the schools > and colleges in India which currently teach kids DOS, Windoze 3.1 (yeah, > still - there's a small course on '95 thrown in) and programming in C, > ForTran, COBOL, Pascal ... Bingo. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 17 23:20:51 2000 Received: from iimk.ren.nic.in (iimk.ren.nic.in [164.100.247.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1896638052 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 23:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by iimk.ren.nic.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11973; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:06:12 +0530 From: "Nikhil Datta" To: Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:36:12 +0000 (GMT) Organization: IIM, Kozhikode User X-Mailer: ObsidianSystems-OcsEmail1-0-28p1 brewed at www.obsidian.co.za Reply-To: nikhild@usa.net In-Reply-to: <38D2EB55.1B00AA1E@doe.ernet.in> Message-ID: <95336137211952-18120611952nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Subject: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... X-Archive-Number: 200003/135 > > NIC for their Ku Band satellite setup uses Hughes DirecPC VSAT technology > which is targeted at getting the satellite pipe direct to a "single" remote > user on the PC itself. Chances are that Hughes has only "Windows" drivers and > hence NIC is restricted to "windows" usage , well, atleast with the Ku Band > technology. > I've got one of those DirecPC thingies right here in my college - frankly I don't understand the whole thing ffull. I do know i get about 64k upstream aan(according to a webb site i got the info from) 3-24 mpbs downstream (which NIC can't possibly offer anyway). The Earthstation 500(which is the router) connects to a windows-only PC, and has some satellite dish config stuff, it also has an rj45, which I plug directly into my linux server, eliminating all need for windows. the whole setup works fine without the windows box even being connected. i've been told there is something wrong in my setup - so if you know more about it, or where i can get some more info, i'll be happy - I do know i get pretty decent bandwidth (though only at night an don public holidays).. you can check out http://iimk.ren.nic.in/mrtg/iimk.ren.nic.in.html to see for yourself... nikk I have never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to any question. -- Spock, "This Side of Paradise", stardate 3417.3 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 01:49:05 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EEC73806F for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 01:48:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-186-102.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.186.102]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00110; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:06:27 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12951; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:23:52 +0530 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 15:23:51 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian Subject: Re: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318152351.F12717@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List , Suresh Ramasubramanian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000318090336.B642@kcircle.com>; from r.suresh@mailandnews.com on Sat, Mar 18, 2000 at 09:03:36AM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/136 Hi, Suresh Ramasubramanian typed: > Thaths - as an alternative to reinventing the wheel by writing an LI FAQ > by ourselves, there's a pretty neat set of howtos at > http://www.local.net/~jgo (starting from installation, mounting drives etc > to qmail / procmail / kernel compiling. It also includes stuff like > support for Yamaha sound cards). No, I still think that we *should* reinvent the wheel. We could still take material from various sources. The Sis 6xxx and YMF 724 are first on the list. > If we (tinw - there is no we) target linux at schools and colleges (more > aggressively), where most kids get their first exposure to computers, we > are going to boost Linux far more than by keeping on targeting the > corporates. This reminds me, our school just upgraded all the Win95 machines to Windows 98! Aaargh!! This is the heights - and there is absolutely nothing that the students can do about it. The administration of schools will never take the students word seriously. So how exactly do we target Linux at schools and colleges? One common reason I have seen is ``It's free so how can it be good?'' And then they go and buy Windows 98 for 80 PCS!! -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - Nuns do it out of habit. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 03:48:34 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19AE43804F for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.91]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:17:13 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00632; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:20:35 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:20:35 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: The Linux India General Mailing List Cc: Mrinal Kalakrishnan Subject: Re: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318172035.A624@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , The Linux India General Mailing List , Mrinal Kalakrishnan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000318152351.F12717@india.com>; from mrinal@india.com on Sat, Mar 18, 2000 at 03:23:51PM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/137 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LI that: >No, I still think that we *should* reinvent the wheel. We could still >take material from various sources. The Sis 6xxx and YMF 724 are first >on the list. Customize and Innovate - Yes. Rewrite from scratch - no. This "reinventing the wheel" defeats the whole idea of cooperative effort that defines GNU and Linux. >This reminds me, our school just upgraded all the Win95 machines to >Windows 98! Aaargh!! This is the heights - and there is absolutely Ouch. >nothing that the students can do about it. The administration of >schools will never take the students word seriously. So how exactly do >we target Linux at schools and colleges? That IS the question ... answers welcome. >One common reason I have seen is ``It's free so how can it be good?'' >And then they go and buy Windows 98 for 80 PCS!! RedHat costs about 3k, SuSe etc cost about the same ... let them buy boxed sets, multi user support licenses etc. They won't complain that it's free, at least. :) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Some people claim that the UNIX learning curve is steep, but at least you only have to climb it once. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 04:05:58 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 807CA3805D for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 04:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-187-24.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.187.24]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15472 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:23:26 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15798 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:49:16 +0530 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:49:16 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: FAQ-O-Matic Message-ID: <20000318174916.A15551@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/138 Hi, FAQ-O-Matic may be just what we need for a dynamic LI FAQ, which can be updated by anybody. Check it out at: http://www.dartmouth.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jonh/faq.pl -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - BALLERINAS do it en point From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 08:52:08 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500D4380FA for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 08:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-185-143.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.143]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02058 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:09:24 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20451 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:35:16 +0530 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 22:35:16 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318223516.A20427@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000318172035.A624@kcircle.com>; from r.suresh@mailandnews.com on Sat, Mar 18, 2000 at 05:20:35PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: vim --help | sed 's/(.*)//' X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/139 Hi, Here's an article relevant to this discussion - about bringing Linux into schools, etc.. http://www.freshmeat.net/news/2000/03/18/953378198.html -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - Soccer players do it in 90 minutes. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 13:58:51 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8B338067 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18707 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:58:37 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 13:58:37 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318135837.A18700@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000317223837.A6595@india.com>; from Mrinal Kalakrishnan on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 10:38:37PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/140 On Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 10:38:37PM +0530, Mrinal Kalakrishnan wrote: > OK, this is exactly the reason why the LI FAQ should get moving - > Arun? Has anybody contributed any articles after you started it? I don't think a single html file maintained by one person is going to work. I'm looking at Zope right now. As soon as I have something workable, I'll post it here. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 14:05:54 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483F53806C for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18729 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:05:46 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:05:46 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000318140546.B18700@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Sat, Mar 18, 2000 at 09:20:10AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/141 On Sat, Mar 18, 2000 at 09:20:10AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > On Fri, 17 Mar 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > > > To sum it up, Linux is no longer a religion. It's just an OS for me. > > Linux in itself is not religion to me, but what is stands for (technology > highly suitable to the Indian scenario) *is*. > > I have several other causes, and they are all linked by this common > thread. This includes my objection to the techno-slavery that the Indian > software industry is sinking into (in a nutshell - software exports != > software development), connectivity for Joe Ramaswamy, etc. I share your religion on the software development issue. GPL and a development based software industry don't mix. India especially has a lot to lose from the loss of potential revenue with development based software exports, than the gains by not paying Microsoft. Alright, I'm a hopeless loser, who keeps going back to GPL. But I can't help it. If someone wants to debate this, come over to -advocacy. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 18 23:30:53 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9F1381AA for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.123]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:44:21 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00845; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:47:10 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:47:09 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Cc: Mrinal Kalakrishnan Subject: Re: FAQ-O-Matic Message-ID: <20000319124709.A838@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General , Mrinal Kalakrishnan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/142 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LIG that: >FAQ-O-Matic may be just what we need for a dynamic LI FAQ, which can >be updated by anybody. Check it out at: >http://www.dartmouth.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jonh/faq.pl Better have an edit team to which the FAQs are submitted, rather than every X Y and Z being allowed to edit / update the FAQs. Safer and better that way. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Profanity is the one language all programmers know best. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 02:29:58 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 785FB38092 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 02:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-186-117.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.186.117]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15872 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:47:25 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05986 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:36:38 +0530 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:36:38 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... Message-ID: <20000319153638.B5856@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Fri, Mar 17, 2000 at 11:26:26PM +0530 X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi Improved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/143 Hi, Atul Chitnis typed: > > Everybody knows that you have done wonders for Linux in India, > > but now, what about the list? > I was not trying to pound my drum, if that is what you are referring to. I > was answering your question. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough - I wasn't being sarcastic. You are *the* big name in Linux in India. But what I was trying to say is that your leaving the list doesn't help LI in any way. > The list is only a conduit, the people who contribute to it are the main > Linux resource. Along the same lines, it can also be said that you are one of those main resources, who is no more on the list. > And these people must be given a structure, a framework on > which they can build something comprehensive, so that their work (in the > form of answers) is not lost over time. Agreed. > Do you know that the average Indian (if at all computer savvy) equates > computers with Windows, and thinks that "Linux is not for the ordinary > people" but only for techies? Yes I know, and this notion will be pretty difficult to change. A Linux system today may not be too easy for a non-techie or newbie to use without some introduction of some kind. Even if it is just - "All that you need is in /usr/doc/HOWTO/"! -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - "If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot of different places, just write a Unix operating system." (By Linus Torvalds) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 02:30:07 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85C3380BF for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 02:29:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-186-117.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.186.117]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15888; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:47:27 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05931; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:27:09 +0530 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:27:09 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Cc: Suresh Ramasubramanian Subject: Re: FAQ-O-Matic Message-ID: <20000319152709.A5856@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List , Suresh Ramasubramanian Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000319124709.A838@kcircle.com>; from r.suresh@mailandnews.com on Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 12:47:09PM +0530 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/144 Hi, Suresh Ramasubramanian typed: > >FAQ-O-Matic may be just what we need for a dynamic LI FAQ, which can > >be updated by anybody. Check it out at: > >http://www.dartmouth.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/jonh/faq.pl > Better have an edit team to which the FAQs are submitted, rather than > every X Y and Z being allowed to edit / update the FAQs. Safer and better > that way. This same system has provisions for moderators, and things like that (even separate moderators for each category), and every submitted question/answer, can be sent by email to the moderator for confirmation. The intro to FAQ-O-Matic contained something to this effect - "Mailing lists are good resources, but the same questions get asked over and over again. Thus arose the need for list archives. But people started getting lazier and lazier to browse through the archives. This is what inspired me to write FAQ-O-Matic, so that all questions are neatly categorised for easy access....." We need some opinions here - is it better to use such a dynamic FAQ system, or is it better to stick with SGML and DocBook, etc? -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - "I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, and gdb. Thank you." (By Vance Petree, Virginia Power) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 03:55:06 2000 Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com (e3.ny.us.ibm.com [32.97.182.103]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6805A38061 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 03:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (northrelay03.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.23]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA240984 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 06:53:33 -0500 Received: from DemiUrge.in.ibm.com ([9.184.199.132]) by northrelay03.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v2.06) with ESMTP id GAA24286 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 06:54:52 -0500 Received: by DemiUrge.in.ibm.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A9A2858812; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:24:55 +0530 (IST) Subject: Linux India FAQ's From: Syed Khader Vali URL: http://www.sidcarter.com/ Operating-System: Turing OS XCVII Disclaimer: Not speaking for anyone in any way, shape, or form. Copyright: Copyright 2000 Syed Khader Vali - All Rights Reserved To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Organization: IBM Global Services - India Reply-To: sidgeek@austin.ibm.com Date: 19 Mar 2000 17:24:54 +0530 Message-ID: <86g0tn9nu9.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Lines: 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/145 Hi, I guess I missed a lot of fun around here :-) And am I glad I wasn't here on LIH/LIG :-) Well, the thread about Linux experience sharing wasn't in itself a "Linux in India" thread, but just another "holier than thou" thread ( flames welcome, but offline ). But maybe it was good that we decided to do something at the end of it. Can we decide on some FAQ's that can be written which can be put up at Linux India's site ? or do we have different plans ? The last mail I received was about Arun talking about Zope. Do we have any concrete plans ? Thanks Regards - Khader -- Syed Khader Vali (Siddiq) - Linux Guy, LCC IBM Global Services , India Work -- sidgeek@austin.ibm.com, skhader@in.ibm.com Personal -- sid@sidcarter.com Debian GNU/Linux ( Woody ) http://www.sidcarter.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 04:31:17 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8723338062 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailandnews.com ([202.9.151.55]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:59:44 +0530 Message-ID: <38D4C909.8D4B59C3@mailandnews.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:03:13 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian Reply-To: r.suresh@mailandnews.com Organization: CAUCE India - www.india.cauce.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mrinal Kalakrishnan Cc: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: FAQ-O-Matic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/146 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LIG that: > This same system has provisions for moderators, and things like that > (even separate moderators for each category), and every submitted > question/answer, can be sent by email to the moderator for > confirmation. > Teaches me to RTFM before posting :) It sounds quite good - but afaict, Zope / PHP (as Arun suggested) are far cooler *for this application* than a PERL based solution like FAQ-O-MATIC. [wears asbestos suit, and grabs asbestos umbrella - seeing dozens of PERL fans beginning to froth at the mouth :)] -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Passwords are implemented as a result of insecurity. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 07:56:32 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38C8738072 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09321 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:28:05 +0530 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:28:05 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: LI Web content In-Reply-To: <86g0tn9nu9.fsf@DemiUrge.in.ibm.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/147 The process of moving the site to a server with MySQL and PHP3 has already started. Bangalore guys will remember some discussion on it. While I was able to find a team of people who have solid experience with site building using PHP3 and MySQL, I have yet to come across anyone in our lists professing any *expertise* in Zope. And we are definitely looking for *expertise* here, not casual dabbling. The framework exists (at least in design), but I do not want this to be another "here today, gone tomorrow" project. Some of you may question the "I" in the line above. This project holds meaning if and only if it will be a sustained effort, and people here commit to it. The current site died because eventually it became *my* job to maintain it - something I cannot do because I have no webmaster experience. I can contribute content, but have neither the skills nor the tools to act as webmaster. There are two kinds of people who need to commit here - web designers who will create the site design and maintain it (we already have these commitments) and content providers who put meat on the skeleton. The latter is a rare animal, because many people tend to make promises, but fail to keep them eventually. This could result in content provision by only a small handful of people (possibly even just one person) which totally defeats the purpose of the project. The greatest source of content will be LIH, which means that what one should really focus on now is the identification of past, present and future useful messages, tag them, categorize them, keyword them, and get them ready for listing on the new site. This is a mammoth job that has become even more difficult because of the delay in recognising the need for this, but needs to be done. The creation of the new site does not take the pressure off other urgent LI matters that have been pending for long (concerned people will know what I am talking about) - instead it should be *part* of the process. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 09:55:10 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C88BB38072 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:54:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21489 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:54:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:54:57 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: LI Web content Message-ID: <20000319095457.A21471@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 09:28:05PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/148 On Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 09:28:05PM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > The process of moving the site to a server with MySQL and PHP3 has already > started. Bangalore guys will remember some discussion on it. > > While I was able to find a team of people who have solid experience with > site building using PHP3 and MySQL, I have yet to come across anyone in > our lists professing any *expertise* in Zope. And we are definitely > looking for *expertise* here, not casual dabbling. Yes, the choices come down to PHP3 and MySQL or Zope and MySQL. Functionality wise, Zope and MySQL are more capable, but PHP3 and MySQL are battle tested and more popular. I've looked at a couple of tech support sites and the one I like most is: http://help.netscape.com/faqs/commctr4x.html This is pretty good too: http://support.microsoft.com/support/win2000/top.asp The common theme is to categorize, have a bunch of articles and a small amount of meta data. The meta data gets stored in a database. So to begin with, we can use Zope as a shared folder to dump as many articles as possible in it and then update the metadata in the database. Zope's biggest strength is many users updating data in a shared repository. -Arun PS: linuxkb.org is planning to use MySQL and PHP3 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 13:27:11 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD063806B for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21936 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:26:10 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:26:10 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000319132610.A21900@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i X-Archive-Number: 200003/149 http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/ Try out the last two links to see some rudimentary content. Now, if people can suggest more (sub)categories and volunteer to maintain parts of the FAQ, I can create Zope accounts for each one of you. Once you become a volunteer, you can upload more HTML (or DTML - Zope extension to HTML) to those directories and even edit HTML remotely. Specifically, you'll login to http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/manage and edit stuff in your browser. For more information, you'll have to read Zope content management guide. http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/ZCMG-HTML/ZCMG.html Don't get overwhelmed by all the tech-speak above. To become a content manager, all you need is the ability to use the browser and write some rudimentary HTML. You can produce the HTML in your favorite HTML editor and cut and paste it into Zope through your browser. Whatever content is contributed will be owned by the respective authors and any reproduction elsewhere will have to be authorized by them. The knowledge base will have real articles as well as references to articles elsewhere. The sub category owners are responsible for keeping the references valid. If you're contributing non-trivial articles, make sure that your authorship is properly noted in the article. I'll work on aggregating all this meta data (dates, authors, popularity etc) in a database as I find more time. Now, let's hear the names of some volunteers. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 17:55:53 2000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [202.41.96.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A443806B for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (vk@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00787; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:25:03 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: vk owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:25:02 +0530 (IST) From: Krishnan Venkatachalam X-Sender: vk@localhost.localdomain To: nikhild@usa.net Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences.... In-Reply-To: <95336137211952-18120611952nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/150 There are a few versions of DirecPC. The older one (and probanly the one NIC uses) is 64K to the satellite and a max of 400K to the user. The more recent version DirecPC EE (Multimedia) has upto 24 something Megs downlink speed to the user. NIC uses Intelsat, and a sprint gateway (at Mumbai?). The only organisation to by pass the DoT and use foriegn satellites. Check the Hughes website for DirecPC and maybe you can mail the guys for the solution too. I have only read about the system but have not seen it. I'll keep an eye out and if I make a trip to NIC I'll find out and let you know. Krishnan On Sat, 18 Mar 2000, Nikhil Datta wrote: > > > > NIC for their Ku Band satellite setup uses Hughes DirecPC VSAT technology > > which is targeted at getting the satellite pipe direct to a "single" remote > > user on the PC itself. Chances are that Hughes has only "Windows" drivers and > > hence NIC is restricted to "windows" usage , well, atleast with the Ku Band > > technology. > > > > I've got one of those DirecPC thingies right here in my college - frankly I don't understand the whole thing ffull. I do know i get about 64k upstream aan(according to a webb site i got the info from) 3-24 mpbs downstream (which NIC can't possibly offer anyway). > > The Earthstation 500(which is the router) connects to a windows-only PC, and has some satellite dish config stuff, it also has an rj45, which I plug directly into my linux server, eliminating all need for windows. the whole setup works fine without the windows box even being connected. > > i've been told there is something wrong in my setup - so if you know more about it, or where i can get some more info, i'll be happy - I do know i get pretty decent bandwidth (though only at night an don public holidays).. you can check out http://iimk.ren.nic.in/mrtg/iimk.ren.nic.in.html to see for yourself... > > nikk > > > > I have never understood the female capacity to avoid a direct answer to > any question. > -- Spock, "This Side of Paradise", stardate 3417.3 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 18:53:14 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B95380E4 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.localdomain (IDENT:root@PPP-185-150.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.150]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21868 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:10:39 +0530 (IST) Received: (from mrinal@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01190 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:35:46 +0530 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:35:46 +0530 From: Mrinal Kalakrishnan To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000320083546.A677@india.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000319132610.A21900@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 01:26:10PM -0800 X-Mailer: Mutt 1.1.8i (2000-03-04) X-Operating-System: Red Hat Linux release 6.1 (Cartman) X-Kernel: Kernel 2.2.12-20 on an i686 X-Editor: VIM - Vi IMproved 5.5 X-URL: http://listen.to/mrinal Organization: National Public School, Rajajinagar, Bangalore. X-Archive-Number: 200003/151 Hi, Arun Sharma typed: > http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/ Wow - this is great! > Try out the last two links to see some rudimentary content. Now, if people > can suggest more (sub)categories and volunteer to maintain parts of the > FAQ, I can create Zope accounts for each one of you. What about a category for hardware - like sound cards, scanners, printers, cd writers, etc. Where does stuff like configuring OpenGL support come in? One more subcategory under Distro-specific: Redhat Linux 6.1 (PCQ Nov CD), and add the exocore FAQ questions there. Mail |--> Sendmail configuration |--> Fetchmail configuration |--> Procmail configuration |--> Common MUAs |--> Anything else? Is this how the subcategories are supposed to be - or are they supposed to be questions, as in an FAQ? What is the "General" category for? If it's for questions which don't fit anywhere, it should probably be renamed "Miscellaneous". Since Installation is almost always distro-specific, maybe it should be moved there.. -- Mrinal Kalakrishnan (PGP:B1E86F5B) http://listen.to/mrinal - - - - = ( Redhat Linux 6.1 ) = - - - - = ( Kernel 2.2.12-20 ) = - - - - "Are [Linux users] lemmings collectively jumping off of the cliff of reliable, well-engineered commercial software?" (By Matt Welsh) From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 19:43:40 2000 Received: from doe.ernet.in (mahavir.doe.ernet.in [202.41.100.93]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A51B38077 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:43:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from doe.ernet.in (IDENT:vk@[202.41.96.6]) by doe.ernet.in (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA12538; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:20:09 -0500 (GMT) Message-ID: <38D59E4D.7B4B98CF@doe.ernet.in> Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:13:09 +0530 From: Krishnan Venkatachalam X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nikhild@usa.net, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Please share your linux experiences....(NIC Sat) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/152 The Hughes url is http://www.hns.com/products/snd/pes5000/pes5000.htm Krishnan From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 19 22:31:30 2000 Received: from web221.mail.yahoo.com (web221.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.121]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 65E3938057 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:31:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20000320063122.9565.rocketmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.30] by web221.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:31:22 PST Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:31:22 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base To: Linux India General MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/153 Hi, I am a fairly good writer, but I'm not very confident of my Linux knowledge currently. However, if you are techie-type who is reluctant to contribute because of your writing ability, pls drop me a line. I can help on that. Biju --- Arun Sharma wrote: > Now, let's hear the names of some volunteers. ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 07:05:02 2000 Received: from iimk.ren.nic.in (iimk.ren.nic.in [164.100.247.155]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133E638065 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nobody@localhost) by iimk.ren.nic.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA30589; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:51:20 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: iimk.ren.nic.in: nobody set sender to nikk using -f From: "Nikhil Datta" To: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:51:20 +0000 (GMT) Organization: IIM, Kozhikode User X-Mailer: ObsidianSystems-OcsEmail1-0-28p1 brewed at www.obsidian.co.za Reply-To: nikhild@usa.net Message-ID: <95358188030585-20195130585nikk@iimk.ren.nic.in> Subject: Volunteers... X-Archive-Number: 200003/154 I volunteer to do a whole bunch of stuff- from 2nd to 8th of April ( I have a week in calicut with nothing to do...) I could cover samba (more advanced setup, integration with NT domains, profiles, windows policies etc.) OCS (Web based email, scheduling etc etc.. have it setup in college, quite effective) Oracle 8i on Linux (real beast to setup, I have plenty of experience with setup) LDAP(only if I manage to set it up in that time) Printer Accounting (again, something I've setup in college, can be useful) ...that's all I can think of right now- I don't want to bite off more than I can chew. I've also written a whole bunch of stuff for PCQ over the last few years- I'm not sure if I'm allowed to republish it, but if I can, I can easily update and put up... expect nothing from me till next month... nikk > Now, let's hear the names of some volunteers. > "We have the right to survive!" "Not by killing others." -- Deela and Kirk, "Wink of An Eye", stardate 5710.5 From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 07:46:26 2000 Received: from bom4.vsnl.net.in (bom4.vsnl.net.in [202.54.4.116]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C2038065 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:46:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from vaibhav ([202.54.48.145]) by bom4.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA02044 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:17:26 +0500 (GMT+0500) Message-ID: <006701bf9283$a72edaa0$4a3036ca@vaibhav> From: "VaibhaV Sharma" To: Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:17:48 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Archive-Number: 200003/155 An excellent idea for collecting resources, info pages, tutorials as part of LI, at one place. I can surely participate. Maybe the collection of URL's related to Linux, that I have collected over the past would be a help. U can add a User Group FAQ page about activities, forming a new UG, etc issues. Another can be Simulators (DOSEMU, etc.) In a hurry and cant think of any other at this moment. Please count me in. my mail-id for correspondence is vaibhav_sharma@yahoo.com VaibhaV Sharma Indian Linux Users Group Indore Chapter ------------------------------------- Modified Birthday Song.... Happy Birthday to you....Happy Birthday to you.... Haathi paade pooo pooo...Haathi paade pooo pooo... Haathi paade pooo pooo pooo.... Haathi paade pooo pooo... ------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 2:56 AM Subject: [LIG] Linux India Knowledge Base > http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/ > > Try out the last two links to see some rudimentary content. Now, if people > can suggest more (sub)categories and volunteer to maintain parts of the > FAQ, I can create Zope accounts for each one of you. > > Once you become a volunteer, you can upload more HTML (or DTML - Zope > extension to HTML) to those directories and even edit HTML remotely. > > Specifically, you'll login to > > http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/manage > > and edit stuff in your browser. > > For more information, you'll have to read Zope content management guide. > > http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Guides/ZCMG-HTML/ZCMG.html > > Don't get overwhelmed by all the tech-speak above. To become a content > manager, all you need is the ability to use the browser and write some > rudimentary HTML. You can produce the HTML in your favorite HTML editor > and cut and paste it into Zope through your browser. > > Whatever content is contributed will be owned by the respective authors > and any reproduction elsewhere will have to be authorized by them. The > knowledge base will have real articles as well as references to articles > elsewhere. The sub category owners are responsible for keeping the references > valid. If you're contributing non-trivial articles, make sure that your > authorship is properly noted in the article. I'll work on aggregating all > this meta data (dates, authors, popularity etc) in a database as I find > more time. > > Now, let's hear the names of some volunteers. > > -Arun > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out > http://lists.linux-india.org/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 08:51:55 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59C5E38219 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:51:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23923 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:51:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:51:50 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000320085150.A23906@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000319132610.A21900@sharmas.dhs.org>; from Arun Sharma on Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 01:26:10PM -0800 X-Archive-Number: 200003/156 On Sun, Mar 19, 2000 at 01:26:10PM -0800, Arun Sharma wrote: Folks, > http://sharmas.dhs.org:8080/li-kb/articles/ I heard that there is another FAQ/knowledge base project in the works. So let's hold this off, till we have sorted out things. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 09:29:54 2000 Received: from billahd.wilnetonline.net (mailserver.wilnetonline.net [202.164.96.2]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A89E38060 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([202.164.107.181]) by billahd.wilnetonline.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB39D5 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:59:35 -0500 From: deda1us Reply-To: crsoni@wilnetonline.net To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:41:38 +0530 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <20000320063122.9565.rocketmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00032022571802.01056@localhost> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Archive-Number: 200003/157 On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Biju Chacko wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I am a fairly good writer, but I'm not very confident of my Linux > knowledge currently. However, if you are techie-type who is reluctant > to contribute because of your writing ability, pls drop me a line. I > can help on that. >=20 > Biju >=20 Same here. I could also help on non-networking stuff (though,=20 I'm not sure how much I know would be useful) besides the writing part.=20 Rahul --=20 In the Name of Annah the Allmaziful, the Everliving, the Bringer of Plurabilities, haloed be her eve, her singtime sung, her rill be run, unhemmed as it is uneven! -- James Joyce, Finnegans Wake From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 11:00:30 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7616E3809C for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.36]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:29:37 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00632 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:18:10 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:18:10 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000321001810.A628@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , The Linux India General Mailing List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000320083546.A677@india.com>; from mrinal@india.com on Mon, Mar 20, 2000 at 08:35:46AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/158 Mrinal Kalakrishnan saw fit to inform LI that: >Mail > |--> Sendmail configuration > |--> Fetchmail configuration > |--> Procmail configuration > |--> Common MUAs > |--> Anything else? ~This~ is up my street - and I do know something about it (for a change) :) I also happen to know a little English ... I volunteer :) Also - I nominate Rajesh Fowkar on LIH for another thing (if required) - ~un~common MUAs (he's been downloading and testing mailers that most people never heard of ) -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Beta is Latin for "Still Doesn't Work." From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 11:06:44 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.229]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311613809C for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05229 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:38:55 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:38:55 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: <20000321001810.A628@kcircle.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/159 I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but I was more interested in mining information out of the archives of LIH, rather than writing the stuff all over again. Or are we to assume that whatever appears in LIH in terms of answers is history? In that case I find nothing wrong with dropping out of LIH. What we should be doing is look for frequently asked questions in LIH, find the best possible answer received, and document the question and teh URL of the answer(s) in the archive. Atul -------------------------------------------------------- Atul Chitnis | achitnis@exocore.com (PGP:6011BCB8) Exocore Consulting | http://www.exocore.com Bangalore, India | +91(80)3440397 Fax +91(80)3341137 -------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 17:20:23 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3D313809C for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24870 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:20:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:20:12 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000320172012.A24850@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 12:38:55AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/160 On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 12:38:55AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but I was more interested in mining > information out of the archives of LIH, rather than writing the stuff all > over again. > > Or are we to assume that whatever appears in LIH in terms of answers is > history? In that case I find nothing wrong with dropping out of LIH. How about just linking to specific articles in the LIH archives ? I don't sense a whole lot of enthusiasm here for digging answers out of LIH. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 18:38:52 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0954D3809C for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:38:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.29]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:07:34 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00737; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:10:58 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:10:58 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Linux India General Cc: Atul Chitnis Subject: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000321081058.A731@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General , Atul Chitnis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000321001810.A628@kcircle.com> Organization: CAUCE India X-Archive-Number: 200003/161 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LIG that: >I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but I was more interested in mining >information out of the archives of LIH, rather than writing the stuff all >over again. It will require substantial rewriting for the following reasons - 1. To merge ~all~ the followups into a single file (and merging it to correct any errors etc that were clarified in a subsequent part of the thread) 2. Clean up spelling, grammar etc (e-mail seems to concentrate and bring out ~all~ the "Butler English" a person knows). 3. Take the load off Thaths' server. If it was a question of mining the archives - his wilma list archiver is slow and cumbersome to use, and afaict, is a server hog as well. No need to add load to that ... >Or are we to assume that whatever appears in LIH in terms of answers is >history? In that case I find nothing wrong with dropping out of LIH. Even history which occured over several centuries requires enough editing to fit into a textbook :) Of course, all the above information ~will~ come from LIH. Even ~I~ am not so crazy as to write every set of howtos from scratch when there's excellent material at hand. -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Computer programs expand so as to fill the core available. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 19:32:01 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E061F3805D for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06455 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:04:19 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:04:19 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: <20000320172012.A24850@sharmas.dhs.org> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/162 On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Arun Sharma wrote: > On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 12:38:55AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but I was more interested in mining > > information out of the archives of LIH, rather than writing the stuff all > > over again. > > > > Or are we to assume that whatever appears in LIH in terms of answers is > > history? In that case I find nothing wrong with dropping out of LIH. > > How about just linking to specific articles in the LIH archives ? I don't > sense a whole lot of enthusiasm here for digging answers out of LIH. Arun - unless we make use of information that exists in the LIH archives, we are rendering LIH meaningless. Sure the job will be difficult and painful, but it needs to be done. A site created by a few people who provide answers is of no interest to me from the community point of view. If we orphan LIH, people providing answers there will not have the sense of belonging that they *would* get if they knew that if they provide a correct, well-thought out answer, it will automatically become part of the FAQ section of the new site. While it will be easy to start this process with new messages flowing through LIH, it would be decidedly unfair to people who have provided answers in the past (including people like me). There must be a close visible link between LIH and the FAQ section, else this exercise is pointless. I know from experience that once the initial enthusiasm wanes (about a week or two down the line), the FAQ section will go completely static. What we need is a mechanism by which we can tag messages for inclusion in the FAQ. Then we use this mechanism for both archived and new messages. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 19:39:59 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.228]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A3438066 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:39:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06475 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:12:18 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:12:18 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: <20000321081058.A731@kcircle.com> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/163 On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > 1. To merge ~all~ the followups into a single file (and merging it to > correct any errors etc that were clarified in a subsequent part of the > thread) So? Merging is no big deal at all. It is just a question of a database of links, with a main answer and "see-also"s. > 2. Clean up spelling, grammar etc (e-mail seems to concentrate and bring > out ~all~ the "Butler English" a person knows). Uh, I had no intention of "homogenizing" people's efforts to contribute. Whatever the form of the message may be, it is an individual's contribution, and represents his/her work. As long as it is technically accurate, it should remain untouched. > 3. Take the load off Thaths' server. If it was a question of mining the > archives - his wilma list archiver is slow and cumbersome to use, and > afaict, is a server hog as well. No need to add load to that ... Hmmm, so to reduce the load on Thaths' server, we throw away all that valuable information provided by so many people? This project is definitely not heading in a direction I am comfortable with. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 21:32:06 2000 Received: from whim.zao.net (whim.zao.net [203.9.148.246]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18163808C for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:31:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bains@localhost) by whim.zao.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05526 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:31:53 +1100 (EST) From: Sunny Bains Message-Id: <200003210531.QAA05526@whim.zao.net> Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: <20000320063122.9565.rocketmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> from Biju Chacko at "Mar 19, 0 10:31:22 pm" To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Date: Tue, 21 Mar 100 16:31:53 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: sunny@bains.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/164 Count me in, it's just that I don't know what part of the faq i want to maintain. -sunny > Hi, > > I am a fairly good writer, but I'm not very confident of my Linux > knowledge currently. However, if you are techie-type who is reluctant > to contribute because of your writing ability, pls drop me a line. I > can help on that. > > Biju > > --- Arun Sharma wrote: > > > Now, let's hear the names of some volunteers. > > > ===== > Biju "Botsie" Chacko > "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For more information on the LIG mailing list see: > http://lists.linux-india.org/lists/LIG > -- Sunny Bains +61 416 121275 sunny@bains.org http://www.bains.org/ From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 22:05:35 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71DD38069 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25991 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:05:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:05:34 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000320220534.A25877@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: ; from Atul Chitnis on Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 09:04:19AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/165 On Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 09:04:19AM +0530, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > Arun - unless we make use of information that exists in the LIH archives, > we are rendering LIH meaningless. > The way I see it, the main differentiator for LIH is interactivity. > Sure the job will be difficult and painful, but it needs to be done. A > site created by a few people who provide answers is of no interest to me > from the community point of view. The answers could be provided by anyone. A few people aggregate the answers in the FAQ. > > If we orphan LIH, people providing answers there will not have the sense > of belonging that they *would* get if they knew that if they provide a > correct, well-thought out answer, it will automatically become part of the > FAQ section of the new site. > Sure, I like the idea. But that's not the same as what you're proposing - digging up the archives to make up a FAQ. > While it will be easy to start this process with new messages flowing > through LIH, it would be decidedly unfair to people who have provided > answers in the past (including people like me). Can you give a few examples ? My guess is that there are a handful of these precious items and if you did the work, you know which ones they are. > There must be a close visible link between LIH and the FAQ section, else > this exercise is pointless. I know from experience that once the initial > enthusiasm wanes (about a week or two down the line), the FAQ section will > go completely static. The harder the task, the sooner the enthusiasm wanes. That said, if you can find the resources to grab stuff from LIH archives for the FAQ, more power to you. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 22:49:27 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12CDC38063 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12825; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:16:43 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:16:40 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: Atul Chitnis Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/166 hi Atul In which direction(s) should the project go for you to be comfortable ? cheers cheedu On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Atul Chitnis wrote: > > This project is definitely not heading in a direction I am comfortable > with. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 22:55:43 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2454D38063 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 22:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12965 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:24:13 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:24:13 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: <00032022571802.01056@localhost> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/167 hi all Same case here. I volunteer to do *anything* on linux but I am not much of a hand in networking. But I don't mind learning new things on the way. cheers cheedu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: omicron@pes.edu website: www.geocities.com/sri_dhar_n It is impossible to do anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, deda1us wrote: > On Mon, 20 Mar 2000, Biju Chacko wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am a fairly good writer, but I'm not very confident of my Linux > > knowledge currently. However, if you are techie-type who is reluctant > > to contribute because of your writing ability, pls drop me a line. I > > can help on that. > > > > Biju > > > > Same here. I could also help on non-networking stuff (though, > I'm not sure how much I know would be useful) besides the > writing part. > > Rahul > -- > In the Name of Annah the Allmaziful, > the Everliving, the Bringer of Plurabilities, > haloed be her eve, her singtime sung, > her rill be run, unhemmed as it is uneven! > -- James Joyce, Finnegans Wake > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 23:04:41 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.229]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B041A3807F for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:03:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA07944 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:35:28 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:35:28 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/168 On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Sridhar wrote: > In which direction(s) should the project go for you to be > comfortable ? One that utilises the information already contained in the archives, creates a firm link between the content on the site and the discussions in LIH, encourages people to supply meaningful and technically correct answers, etc. This is serious hard work, but if distributed (each one takes one month's worth messages and looks for gold) it should not take long. The current proposal (write a few FAQs) is doomed to failure because it would be a static effort. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. The primary source of content should be LIH, with occassional contributions in the form of an article or comprehensive HOW-TO. Atul From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Mon Mar 20 23:19:33 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F0F38150 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13334; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:46:17 +0530 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:46:15 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/169 hi atul In that case I'm game. Where do we start? cheers cheedu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: omicron@pes.edu website: www.geocities.com/sri_dhar_n It is impossible to do anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Atul Chitnis wrote: > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Sridhar wrote: > > > In which direction(s) should the project go for you to be > > comfortable ? > > One that utilises the information already contained in the archives, > creates a firm link between the content on the site and the discussions in > LIH, encourages people to supply meaningful and technically correct > answers, etc. > > This is serious hard work, but if distributed (each one takes one month's > worth messages and looks for gold) it should not take long. > > The current proposal (write a few FAQs) is doomed to failure because it > would be a static effort. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt. > > The primary source of content should be LIH, with occassional > contributions in the form of an article or comprehensive HOW-TO. > > Atul > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out > http://lists.linux-india.org/ > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 08:36:40 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30E8D38065 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:36:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01917 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRS64L02.46A for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:36:21 -0800 Message-ID: <38D7A505.6050689E@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:36:21 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/170 Suresh Ramasubramanian proclaimed: > 3. Take the load off Thaths' server. If it was a question of mining the > archives - his wilma list archiver is slow and cumbersome to use, and > afaict, is a server hog as well. No need to add load to that ... You hurt a man when you speak ill of his machine. ;-) Actually, the load on my machine is not too high at all. setiathome takes up more computing resources on that machine than the archives and the mailing lists combined. wilma is slow in indexing. True. But it is pretty fast in searching. Works through glimpse. Thaths -- "Just go ahead and sue me! Everybody else does. The average settlement is $68,000." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 13:28:14 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-46.netscape.com [205.217.237.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96AA3805D for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA13095 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRSJML00.UCF for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:27:57 -0800 Message-ID: <38D7E95D.44409052@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:27:57 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [PLUG-Mail] Minutes of the Meeting] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/171 > -=( Minutes of the Meeting held at > Sysmbiosis, Pune on 5th March 2000 )=- > > Lots of excitement after Bang!inux and the lecture by Richard Stallman at > Pune University. One of the major things at the meeting was the Rapid > Application Development(RAD) environment - Magic. Vijay Ghate introduced > and talked about Magic along with his other colleagues. > Lots of stuff coming in from Bang!inux. Thanks to Harshad, Salil and others > at Questionable Ventures to get it, all the way from Bangalore. > Including the Original SuSE Linux 6.3 Evaluation Version CD, a bag, a > t-shirt, letter pad, mouse pad, pen, etc,. all just to give away. > Discussions and decissions including a Install Fest to be organised later in > the month which will again be sponsored by SuSE. > Sudhanwa Joglekar, Zoyd and zastereo will be maintaining the PLUG website > (http://www.plug.org.in). > And the merger of PLUGuide into the PLUG website. > > Following is the list of the people attending the meeting: > > Sudhanwa Joglekar > Sachin > Mayur > Bhupesh > Megana > Sunil Soman > Zoyd > Yogesh Waikar > Devidas Dalal > Salil > Vijay Ghate > Uday > Leena > Jaideep Joshi > Iqbal > Ahmed > Vijay Deval > Shirish > Harsh Asgaonkar > Amol Asgaonkar > Amol > Ashutosh Mirajkar > Sandeep > Amit Jain > Joel > Zastereo > Aditya > Harshad > Pravin > Harcharan Singh > Ibadullah Wavimani > > NOTE: List of attendants is as_is as_received and is not in particular order. > Apologizes for missing, mis-spelled names or points. > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 16:03:13 2000 Received: from so.collab.net (lumberjack.collab.net [209.246.26.186]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97FBA38070 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by so.collab.net (Postfix, from userid 500) id 5EF2D180CE; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:04:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:04:36 -0800 From: Shane Owenby To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-programmers@lists.linux-index.org Subject: Developing Open Source code for money. Message-ID: <20000321160436.A1854@collab.net> Reply-To: shane@collab.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre3i X-Archive-Number: 200003/172 Hi, A friend of mine just attended the BangLinux conference (in Bangalore), and was very impressed with the amount of Linux knowledge that he saw. He suggested that I send a little message which explains what my company does, and how it could _help_ the members of the Indian LUG's. I work for a company called Collab.net, and in a nutshell we get companies to fund open source development. (and thus find open source developers to get paid to developer open source software.....which is the reason for sending this message to the LUG) From an open source developers point of view (which I expect most of the members of the LUG would be) sourceXchange is simply a way to get paid to develop open source code. Collab.net has the ability to work with developers from all around the world, as well as to foster the relationship between the developer and the sponsor.(This way the developer doesn't have to be burdened with the responsibility to get their money from the sponsor) In short the way the process works is like this: A company sponsor decides they want a piece of open source software written, they craft an request for proposal, and Collab.net puts that on the www.sourceXchange.com site (See http://www.sourcexchange.com/RfpBrowse for a list of the currently available RFP's), active sourceXchange developers can then view the RFP, and see if they are interested in completing the RFP for the amount of compensation which is detailed in the RFP (the quoted amount is always in US dollars). If the developer is interested in the RFP then that developer can submit a detailed proposal which the sponsor can view, and decide on which developer has the best proposal and experience. Note that all work is done with open source tools, and the geographic location of the developer doesn't matter. The RFP compensation ranges from US$5,000 up to US$50,0000. If anyone is interested in signing up as a developer for sourceXchange please visit http://www.sourcexchange.com/UserRegistration If anyone has any other questions please don't hesitate to ask. I am currently subscribed to linux-india-general so I will be able to answer any questions that people have, and post them to the list that way everyone can benefit from the answer. PS Feel free to forward this to anyone who you feel would benefit from this information. Thanks, Shane Owenby Shane@collab.net From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 17:40:45 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8D03808B for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26377 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FRSVBO01.X0X for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:40:36 -0800 Message-ID: <38D82494.AB156513@netscape.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:40:36 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: Developing Open Source code for money. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/173 Shane Owenby proclaimed: > A friend of mine just attended the BangLinux conference (in Bangalore), and was > very impressed with the amount of Linux knowledge that he saw. He suggested > that I send a little message which explains what my company does, and how it > could _help_ the members of the Indian LUG's. > > I work for a company called Collab.net, and in a nutshell we get companies > to fund open source development. (and thus find open source developers to get > paid to developer open source software.....which is the reason for sending > this message to the LUG) Shane, Posts like the one that you made to the linux-india-general mailing list are generally considered to be of a commercial nature. The linux-india mailing lists are not against commercial postings. However, we require that people label their commercial posts with a 'COMMERCIAL' tag on the subject. BTW, pass my regards to Frank Hecker. S. -- "Just go ahead and sue me! Everybody else does. The average settlement is $68,000." -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 17:50:15 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7033808B for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:50:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.224]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:17:58 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00739; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:18:41 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:18:41 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Atul Chitnis Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: Re: Re: Linux India Knowledge Base Message-ID: <20000322071841.F658@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Atul Chitnis , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: ; from achitnis@exocore.com on Tue, Mar 21, 2000 at 09:12:18AM +0530 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-CAUCE-India: Stopping spam in India X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/174 Atul Chitnis saw fit to inform LI that: >So? Merging is no big deal at all. It is just a question of a database of >links, with a main answer and "see-also"s. In fact, as Wilma already tracks followup threads, this should not be too much of a problem either. If something on the lines of wget could be used to track a thread and download all messages in the thread, then ok. >Uh, I had no intention of "homogenizing" people's efforts to contribute. >Whatever the form of the message may be, it is an individual's Fine, OK. Leaving the English alone, there's still the point of organizing the information. Consider the situation - 1. Query posted 2. Mostly good HOWTO, with a few errors 3. Long thread following up on each error (and generating a few errors) 4. Original HOWTO poster (may / may not) post a revised HOWTO. .... if such a revised howto exists for any thread, then well and good. However, expecting someone to wade through a large thread to track down a few errors defeats the purpose of a FAQ. The man could just as well search the LIH archives directly - having the FAQ becomes redundant in such a case. So, compromise - give a condensed HOWTO, and link to the howto posted on the LI archives. As Wilma tracks messages by thread, no further work is needed on linking to everything in the thread. Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- A woman is only as old as the man she feels -- Mae West From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 19:15:07 2000 Received: from bgl2.vsnl.net.in (bgl2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.12.46]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB8938062 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from udhay (PPP-185-168.bng.vsnl.net.in [203.197.185.168]) by bgl2.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06261 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:32:22 +0530 (IST) X-Pgp-Dsskey: 0x55FAB8D3 X-Pgp-Rsakey: 0xCAA67415 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000322083900.00ada9e0@202.54.12.17> X-Nil: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:40:35 +0530 To: LI General From: Udhay Shankar N Subject: Indialinks cracked ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200003/175 Indialinks has apparently been cracked by some Pakistani script kiddies. There are quotes from Bhavin in this story. Any recent changes to http://www.linux-india.org/ ? ;-) http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/03/20/pakistani.hackers/index.html Udhay -- _____________________________________________________________________ http://www.unimobile.com/ http://pobox.com/~udhay Unimobile - the world's first internet mobile From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 21 21:46:18 2000 Received: from cix.exocore.com (unknown [202.141.1.229]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E7CC3806F for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (achitnis@localhost) by cix.exocore.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15353 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:17:46 +0530 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:17:46 +0530 (IST) From: Atul Chitnis To: Linux India General Subject: Re: Indialinks cracked ? NOT! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000322083900.00ada9e0@202.54.12.17> Message-ID: Organisation: Exocore Consulting (P) Limited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/176 On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, Udhay Shankar N wrote: > Indialinks has apparently been cracked by some Pakistani script kiddies. > There are quotes from Bhavin in this story. Any recent changes to > http://www.linux-india.org/ ? ;-) No, LI's site was safe because it was no longer located there. Read the following mail from Bhavin of Indialinks - it is quite clear that the place wasn't "cracked", someone at the ISP left the door wide open. I am satisfied with his explanation because I have used that infamous control panel myself. I appreciate the fact that he was already moving away from that ISP when the incident happened - the fact that LI's site and several other high-profile sites didn't get hit (because they had already been moved) is enough proof for me. Also note his comment on "Pakistanis always tries to hack into servers hosted at alabanza network". That is in no way an insult to Pakistanis but more a comment on human nature. As we have seen here on this list just a few days ago, "Indians always try to hack into servers hosted at VSNL/Satyam/DoT/Mantra/etc. network" ;-) Atul ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 19:44:17 +0500 From: IndiaLinks Web Hosting And Services To: Atul Chitnis Atul, Let me explain you everything in details... Alabanza providers Web servers with lots of customisation and browser based control panels which are not safe at all. Infact they give Control panel to create domains, email accounts everything from web and worst part is, if someone is logged on to control panel from one computer, from second computer i can directly logon without giving password (by giving URL of second page which comes after logging in...). So basically.. there was nothing to hack into.. the system itself was open. Delhinet, Directi, BiznetIndia are other providers who also hosts with Alabanza on the similar server and i can send you the control panel snaps (html which was saved by me) which will show you how Unsafe the alabanza servers are. We were in process of moving those sites from alabanza to our existing network and most of the sites were moved. I can say only about 50 sites were not transfers. Rest of the sites were active on their new IPs untouched. Alabanza also hosts sites of most of the service providers of Pakistan and thats the reason why Pakistanis always tries to hack into servers hosted at alabanza network. I hope this explains you everything. Bhavin Chandarana From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 22 07:53:55 2000 Received: from jla.vsnl.net.in (unknown [202.54.103.1]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A34273802E for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from cyber-1 ([210.214.81.233]) by jla.vsnl.net.in (8.9.3/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA25356 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:25:11 -0500 (IST) Message-ID: <004501bf9417$be07bcc0$16c894c9@cyber-1.cyber.net> From: "attila" To: "The Linux India General Mailing List" Subject: Re: Re: Multiple modems on Linux Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:29:56 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Archive-Number: 200003/177 How can I use multiple modems on linux. I want to increase the bandwidth? Kuljeet. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Wed Mar 22 08:02:22 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684A23808D for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29891 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:02:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:02:17 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Multiple modems on Linux Message-ID: <20000322080217.A29884@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <004501bf9417$be07bcc0$16c894c9@cyber-1.cyber.net>; from attila on Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 09:29:56PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/178 On Wed, Mar 22, 2000 at 09:29:56PM +0530, attila wrote: > How can I use multiple modems on linux. I want to increase the bandwidth? Yes, this is possible and has been done with ethernet cards. It's called channel bonding. Do a google search. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 24 02:18:30 2000 Received: from web219.mail.yahoo.com (web219.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.119]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 939CF38070 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 967 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2000 10:18:08 -0000 Message-ID: <20000324101808.966.qmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.133] by web219.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:18:08 PST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 02:18:08 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Location of How-To's To: linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/179 Hi, I'd like the default location of the How-To's on * Debian * Slackware * Caldera * Mandrake (I have 'em for RH and SuSE) Pls let me know if they are installed by default in the standard install. I want to create a "What to check before posting to the list" page. Reply to me directly pls. I am planning to put in: 1. using 'man'. 2. reading how-to's. 3. checking archives. 4. recommended reading list. 5. Useful links eg. Shanu's i810 page, exocore/linux, etc. Suggestions welcome. Again, pls reply to me directly. There's enough traffic on the list as it is. thanks, Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 24 03:14:44 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC35F38058 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 03:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14734; Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:42:47 +0530 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:42:47 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: attila Cc: The Linux India General Mailing List Subject: Re: Re: Multiple modems on Linux In-Reply-To: <004501bf9417$be07bcc0$16c894c9@cyber-1.cyber.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/180 hi what's that gotta do with LIG? cheers cheedu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: omicron@pes.edu website: www.geocities.com/sri_dhar_n It is impossible to do anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 22 Mar 2000, attila wrote: > How can I use multiple modems on linux. I want to increase the bandwidth? > > Kuljeet. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information on this and other Linux India mailing lists check out > http://lists.linux-india.org/ > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sat Mar 25 23:20:45 2000 Received: from MailAndNews.com (MailAndNews.com [199.29.68.160]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D642938050 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2000 23:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from morula [208.238.62.78] (r.suresh@mailandnews.com); Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:20:30 -0500 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Sun, 26 Mar 00 02:20:30 -0500 From: "Suresh Ramasubramanian" Organization: KCircle [ http://www.kcircle.com ] To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org (Linux India General) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:50:31 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: MISC: Pegasus Mail - port to linux Reply-To: r.suresh@mailandnews.com Message-ID: <38DE0797.19223.37DF6A31@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Archive-Number: 200003/181 Hi everybody Pegasus is one of my favorite e-mail clients - and I saw this today on Pegasus Mail's (recently redesigned, now great looking) website. The wording is not so great, and is likely to trigger another licensing discussion - but -- is there any license which would suit David Harris' requirements? He ~does~ have a point or two btw http://www.pmail.com/sundry/pmlinux.htm for the full text. Pegasus Mail and Linux --- cut --- ... Now, while I'm quite enthusiastic about the idea of a Linux version of Pegasus Mail, I'm much less enthusiastic about the idea of open source. To me it is an unproven concept, with the obvious potential to produce low-quality applications - this is not to demean existing open source initiatives, many of which are quite good; it's merely an observation about team programming in general, especially when the team members are widely-spread, and constantly changing. At this point, I am not willing to consider making Pegasus Mail an open source project, but I am willing to keep an open mind about the idea. At present (February 2000), we see two possible ways of producing a version of Pegasus Mail for Linux: 1: Via a porting layer ... There are some porting layers available for Linux - most notably one called WINE - but they are still rather incomplete. I am watching developments in this area with considerable interest - I believe that in the long run, using a good porting layer when one is available will give me the greatest likelihood of realizing a Linux version of Pegasus Mail. 2: Via a private licensing arrangement While I am not willing to make Pegasus Mail an open source project, I would be willing to license the source code at no cost to a suitably-constituted development team who would be willing to take on the redevelopment process. This would have to be done under well- defined non-disclosure terms, by a competent, sincere and dedicated team, and I would have to retain ownership of the source code and the Linux version derived from it. I do not know if an initiative like this is possible, but welcome approaches from anyone interested in discussing it with me. David Harris Owner/Author, Pegasus Mail and Mercury Systems, February 18th 2000. --- end --- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India Stopping Spam in India + http://india.cauce.org Bachelor (n): a thing of beauty and a boy forever. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 26 09:03:26 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160CE38065 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:03:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11962; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:03:21 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:03:21 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Suresh Ramasubramanian Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: MISC: Pegasus Mail - port to linux Message-ID: <20000326090321.A11939@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <38DE0797.19223.37DF6A31@localhost>; from Suresh Ramasubramanian on Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 12:50:31PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/182 On Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 12:50:31PM +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > The wording is not so great, and is likely to trigger another > licensing discussion - but -- is there any license which would > suit David Harris' requirements? He ~does~ have a point or two btw The license is easy (A more restrictive version of SCSL would do). But getting people to work at no cost and no apparent benefit is not :) -Arun > > 2: Via a private licensing arrangement While I am not willing to > make Pegasus Mail an open source project, I would be willing to > license the source code at no cost to a suitably-constituted > development team who would be willing to take on the > redevelopment process. This would have to be done under well- > defined non-disclosure terms, by a competent, sincere and > dedicated team, and I would have to retain ownership of the source > code and the Linux version derived from it. I do not know if an > initiative like this is possible, but welcome approaches from anyone > interested in discussing it with me. > > David Harris > Owner/Author, Pegasus Mail and Mercury Systems, > February 18th 2000. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 26 10:31:31 2000 Received: from eth.net (unknown [202.9.145.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC1C38065 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from frodo.kcircle.com ([202.9.151.166]) by eth.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.357.35); Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:00:21 +0530 Received: (from r.suresh@localhost) by frodo.kcircle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00594; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:03:56 +0530 X-Authentication-Warning: frodo.kcircle.com: r.suresh set sender to r.suresh@mailandnews.com using -f Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 00:03:56 +0530 From: Suresh Ramasubramanian To: Arun Sharma Cc: Linux India General Subject: Re: MISC: Pegasus Mail - port to linux Message-ID: <20000327000356.B583@kcircle.com> Mail-Followup-To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Arun Sharma , Linux India General Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20000326090321.A11939@sharmas.dhs.org>; from adsharma@sharmas.dhs.org on Sun, Mar 26, 2000 at 09:03:21AM -0800 Organization: CAUCE India X-Spammers: You spamma my mailbox I nukea da ass X-Linux: Linux 2.2.12-20 X-Archive-Number: 200003/183 Arun Sharma saw fit to inform LI that: >The license is easy (A more restrictive version of SCSL would do). But >getting people to work at no cost and no apparent benefit is not :) If there are pointers to the license I can give David, he can find quite a few people (who are nearly fanatic users of Pegasus ). -- Suresh Ramasubramanian + President, CAUCE India + www.india.cauce.org Stopping Spam In India + suresh@india.cauce.org + Spammers are Losers -- Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft ... and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor. -- Wernher von Braun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Sun Mar 26 11:04:58 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB5B038183 for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12233; Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:00:57 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:00:56 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Suresh Ramasubramanian , Linux India General Subject: Re: MISC: Pegasus Mail - port to linux Message-ID: <20000326110056.A12197@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <20000327000356.B583@kcircle.com>; from Suresh Ramasubramanian on Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 12:03:56AM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/184 On Mon, Mar 27, 2000 at 12:03:56AM +0530, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: > Arun Sharma saw fit to inform LI that: > > >The license is easy (A more restrictive version of SCSL would do). But > >getting people to work at no cost and no apparent benefit is not :) > > If there are pointers to the license I can give David, he can find quite a > few people (who are nearly fanatic users of Pegasus ). > http://www.sun.com/981208/scsl/principles.html SCSL is a template license. There are various versions of it for different products - they all adhere to the above principles. http://java.oreilly.com/news/loukides_0399.html -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 28 05:20:18 2000 Received: from blrnd1.bplnet.com (unknown [202.169.129.43]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41EC438051 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from blrpc2.bplnet.com (root@[202.169.129.45] (may be forged)) by blrnd1.bplnet.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA26699 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:52:22 +0530 (IST) From: Sunny Reply-To: cheemas@hclinsys.com Organization: HCL To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: display settings!! Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:10:02 +0530 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain In-Reply-To: <38DE0797.19223.37DF6A31@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00032821161005.01665@blrpc2.bplnet.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/185 HI i hv RHL6.1 on an HP Brio- runs smooth- only hitch is that the gui display size is greater than the screen on resolution 600X800- whereas the card supports upto 1200x1600!!! i tried other resolutions using xconfig- but no luck. what i want is a decent resolution (atleast 1024x768) and the display area to be the same as the physical monitor area- i remember somebody telling me about a file to edit- but no clue- pl help!!! sunny. From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 28 07:56:15 2000 Received: from sharmas.dhs.org (c62443-a.frmt1.sfba.home.com [24.0.69.165]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C10A3805B for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:56:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from adsharma@localhost) by sharmas.dhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19090; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:55:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:55:44 -0800 From: Arun Sharma To: Sunny Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: display settings!! Message-ID: <20000328075544.A19082@sharmas.dhs.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.6i In-Reply-To: <00032821161005.01665@blrpc2.bplnet.com>; from Sunny on Tue, Mar 28, 2000 at 09:10:02PM +0530 X-Archive-Number: 200003/186 This should be on LIH. -Arun From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Tue Mar 28 21:22:21 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6966438082 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (omicron@localhost) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03419; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:48:45 +0530 Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 10:48:41 +0530 (IST) From: Sridhar To: Sunny Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: display settings!! In-Reply-To: <00032821161005.01665@blrpc2.bplnet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/187 hi First of all this is a mail for LIH. Any way, the file is /etc/X11/XF86Config. Go to the last part, the screen section and i think you must add a line Virtual " < resolution >" after the line resolution .You can also set the actual resolution here. cheers cheedu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: omicron@pes.edu website: www.geocities.com/sri_dhar_n It is impossible to do anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Sunny wrote: > HI > i hv RHL6.1 on an HP Brio- runs smooth- only hitch is that the gui display size is greater than the screen on > resolution 600X800- whereas the card supports upto 1200x1600!!! > i tried other resolutions using xconfig- but no luck. what i want is a decent resolution (atleast 1024x768) > and the display area to be the same as the physical monitor area- > > i remember somebody telling me about a file to edit- but no clue- pl help!!! > > sunny. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The LIG mailing list archives are available at: > http://lists.linux-india.org/cgi-bin/wilma/linux-india-general > From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Thu Mar 30 05:44:05 2000 Received: from pes.edu (unknown [202.54.87.221]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD4E338058 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:43:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from pes.edu (IDENT:omicron@pes.edu [202.54.85.50]) by pes.edu (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26830 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:11:13 +0530 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:11:13 +0530 (IST) From: Cheedu To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Any comments? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/188 hi folks Visit the webpage http://salon.com/tech/feature/1999/07/14/redhat/index.html Bye! cheedu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- email: omicron@pes.edu website: www.geocities.com/sri_dhar_n It is impossible to do anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 08:37:58 2000 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B6938111; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:02:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nodin.corp.sgi.com (fddi-nodin.corp.sgi.com [198.29.75.193]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id UAA22348; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:58:01 -0800 (PST) mail_from (raju@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com) Received: from sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.2]) by nodin.corp.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id VAA66721; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:02:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com [134.14.90.52]) by sgindia.newdelhi.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id KAA78305; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:28:17 +0530 (IST) Received: (from raju@localhost) by bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09480; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:32:20 +0530 (IST) From: Raj Mathur Message-ID: <14564.12634.606231.993926@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 10:32:18 +0530 (IST) To: linux-delhi@bhairavi.newdelhi.sgi.com, linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Change of address X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 6) "Big Bend" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: raju@sgi.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200003/189 Ignore this if you don't know me. I'm leaving SGI (today is my last working day here). Hopefully after this I'll be able to devote more time to the Linux Community... I may even start reading the messages on the list and responding to them :-) Please direct any personal messages to: raju@linux-delhi.org Regards, -- Raju From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 09:08:32 2000 Received: from inbound.satyam.net.in (unknown [202.144.76.6]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367F238059 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from satyam (210.214.24.138) by inbound.satyam.net.in (NPlex 4.5.047) id 38E368E600025CA8 for linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:06:10 +0000 Message-ID: <004301bf9b34$60ee5520$8a18d6d2@satyam.net.in> From: "Soumyanath Chatterjee" To: Subject: Putin bans Russian army use of Windows Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:40:28 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Archive-Number: 200003/190 Visit the page for some interesting development on Linux: http://www.timesofindia.com/310300/31info3.htm - 31 March 2000 : Putin bans Russian army use of Windows - Soumya --- URL: http://www.geocities.com/soumyanath From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 09:14:34 2000 Received: from cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (cs2.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.3]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E10B3802E for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:14:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com (hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com [208.238.62.45]) by cs2.hyd.office.juno.com (8.8.6.Beta0/8.8.7/juno-1.1) with ESMTP id WAAAA02982; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:41:45 +0530 (IST) Received: by hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:40:19 +0530 Message-ID: <140318358CECD3118AE700104B8837D7381DBF@hydmail1.hyd.office.juno.com> From: "Ramasubramanian, Suresh" To: "'Soumyanath Chatterjee'" , "'LIG'" Subject: RE: Putin bans Russian army use of Windows Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:40:19 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain X-Archive-Number: 200003/191 Have you considered that this may well be an April Fool joke [1]? I'm not fooling anybody - but my birthday IS April 1 :) [honest] Suresh Ramasubramanian | sureshr@staff.juno.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Soumyanath Chatterjee [SMTP:soumyac@satyam.net.in] > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2000 10:40 PM > To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org > Subject: [LIG] Putin bans Russian army use of Windows > > Visit the page for some interesting development on Linux: > > http://www.timesofindia.com/310300/31info3.htm - 31 March 2000 : Putin > bans > Russian army use of Windows > > - Soumya > > --- > URL: http://www.geocities.com/soumyanath > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > For more information on the LIG mailing list see: > http://lists.linux-india.org/lists/LIG From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 16:03:41 2000 Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 25B4438050 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16972 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2000 00:03:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20000401000332.16971.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.197.92.117] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:03:32 PST Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: pradeep agrawal Subject: looking for linux experts To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/192 hi! We are looking for dynamic Linux experts, with sound knowledge of TCP/IP, HTML, MYSQL, Apache , Sendmail/ Qmail and Radius. Must have desire & capabilities to work independently. Excellent package for right candidates. For detail please feel free to mail me at pa_kota@yahoo.com I am sorry ,if this is violating rules of this list. Pradeep __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 16:07:39 2000 Received: from netscape.com (h-205-217-237-47.netscape.com [205.217.237.47]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E7C3802E for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from judge.mcom.com (judge.mcom.com [205.217.237.53]) by netscape.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29861 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from netscape.com ([207.1.145.44]) by judge.mcom.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.03) with ESMTP id FSB9OK01.G9I; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:07:32 -0800 Message-ID: <38E53DC3.A01459B4@netscape.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:07:31 -0800 From: Sudhakar Chandrasekharan Organization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, no one can prove a thing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.13 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pradeep agrawal Cc: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org Subject: Re: looking for linux experts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200003/193 pradeep agrawal proclaimed: > We are looking for dynamic Linux experts, with sound > knowledge of TCP/IP, HTML, MYSQL, Apache , Sendmail/ > Qmail and Radius. Must have desire & capabilities to > work independently. > I am sorry ,if this is violating rules of this list. Commercial posts are per se not banned from the lists. But the policy of the list requries that you prefix the subject line with a 'COMMERCIAL' tag. Please follow this rule in the future. Failiure to comply with this rule earns the offender a place in the infamous LI "watch" list. List Admin -- Lisa: "Dad. You killed the zombie Flanders." Homer: "He was a Zombie?" Sudhakar C13n http://people.netscape.com/thaths/ Lead Indentured Slave From linux-india-general-owner@lists.linux-india.org Fri Mar 31 21:30:28 2000 Received: from web209.mail.yahoo.com (web209.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.109]) by www.aunet.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D162C38057 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9101 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Apr 2000 05:30:03 -0000 Message-ID: <20000401053003.9100.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.54.89.151] by web209.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:30:03 PST Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) From: Biju Chacko Reply-To: botsie@mail.com Subject: Request For Comments To: linux-india-general@lists.linux-india.org, linux-india-help@lists.linux-india.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Archive-Number: 200003/194 Hi, I have posted a draft checklist of things to do before posting to the linux india help list. Hope this will reduce traffic of trivial queries. I'd like your input on it. Specifically, I'd appreciate the following: * book recommendations (preferably those available in Indian reprints) * Useful links. * location of HOWTOs for your favourite distro Any other comments would be also be welcome. The link is: http://botsie.tripod.com/beforeposting/ Thanks, Biju ===== Biju "Botsie" Chacko "Have Fun, Have Fun, Have Fun" - Calvin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com